The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 21 October 2018, 10:07 PM   #1
tigey
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Belize
Posts: 271
Beckertime selling fake dial datejust

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F361672371873

Fake dial and aftermarket clasp.

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk
tigey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 October 2018, 10:32 PM   #2
Brew
"TRF" Member
 
Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Real Name: Larry
Location: Finger Lakes
Posts: 6,007
From the listing:

BeckerTime is proud to offer this handsome Men's 36mm Genuine Rolex Stainless Steel Datejust Watch ref #1603 with a custom refinished White Mother of Pearl Diamond Dial. This Genuine Rolex has been fitted with a custom aftermarket oyster style band. This Rolex is in SUPER EXCELLENT CONDITION.
Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 01:48 AM   #3
tigey
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Belize
Posts: 271
A "custom" dial with a copywrighted logo applied by someone other than the manufacturer of the watch is counterfiet.
tigey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 01:57 AM   #4
edweather
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Real Name: Ed
Location: Georgia, USA
Watch: Casio Illuminator
Posts: 650
If the logo existed on the dial, and was removed to refinish the dial, and then reapplied, does that make the dial/watch counterfeit? I'm still learning.
__________________
An expert under pressure is a drip.
edweather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 02:11 AM   #5
mrblue
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 156
How do you know who applied the logo? An item with an after market part doesn't make it fake.
mrblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 03:35 AM   #6
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 42,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigey View Post
A "custom" dial with a copywrighted logo applied by someone other than the manufacturer of the watch is counterfiet.
A refinished authentic dial is not counterfeit.
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 03:50 AM   #7
GLADIATOR
"TRF" Member
 
GLADIATOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Real Name: Adam
Location: Costa Blanca,
Watch: YMII,GMTII,DAYTONA
Posts: 5,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblue View Post
How do you know who applied the logo? An item with an after market part doesn't make it fake.
Yes it does
Its fake in the eyes of trademark infringement
Its fake in the eyes of ROLEX
HOWEVER
My personal way of "considering fake" is if an individual or company are trying to deceive
In this case BECKERTIME make it absolutely clear, and therefore are NOT trying to deceive
So I would not personally report
but an aftermarket bracelet with a ROLEX Marque Depose - is counterfeit!
Adam
__________________
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
GLADIATOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 05:13 AM   #8
freefly
"TRF" Member
 
freefly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Eric
Location: AZ
Watch: 4&5-digit Sub/GMTs
Posts: 1,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by edweather View Post
If the logo existed on the dial, and was removed to refinish the dial, and then reapplied, does that make the dial/watch counterfeit? I'm still learning.
No, that would be fine (although, it would obviously no longer be able to be considered "original").

The problem is that 99% of the dials out there marketed as "refinished" are simply counterfeit. It is far easier and cheaper to source a knock-off dial than to have a genuine/original dial properly refinished.
Many of these online grey dealers do so even if the original dial is fine. It's an added revenue stream, as it allows them to sell the genuine/original dials separately (same goes for bezels, bracelets, etc.).

In this case, the DJ dial in the OP watch is counterfeit IMO (that is not a genuine Rolex coronet, and the date window appears to be too small).
freefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 05:20 AM   #9
J_1964
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Jim
Location: NoCal USA
Watch: 16710
Posts: 1,955
No Coronet on the clasp, but That Date Window Looks Horrible.
J_1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 05:27 AM   #10
77T
2024 Pledge Member
 
77T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 40,565
Beckertime selling fake dial datejust

IMHO the bracelet doesn’t violate any trademark - therefore it isn’t fake. The clasp has no Rolex insignia and is well-disclosed by the seller as an aftermarket bracelet.

Can’t speak for the watch itself because there are no pictures of the movement.

Rolex would not accept the watch head as authentic with that dial in it. The dial itself doesn’t appear to be an original Rolex dial plate that was refinished. The only way to know is to disassemble it.

If it was reported, the listing will probably not be removed since the seller disclosed the customization of the dial. Any buyer will be stuck with a watch that can never be fixed by Rolex without an expensive dial replacement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________


Does anyone really know what time it is?
77T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 05:31 AM   #11
J_1964
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Jim
Location: NoCal USA
Watch: 16710
Posts: 1,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77T View Post
IMHO the bracelet doesn’t violate any trademark - therefore it isn’t fake. The clasp has no Rolex insignia and is well-disclosed by the seller as an aftermarket bracelet.

Can’t speak for the watch itself because there are no pictures of the movement.

Rolex would not accept the watch head as authentic with that dial in it. The dial itself doesn’t appear to be an original Rolex dial plate that was refinished. The only way to know is to disassemble it.

If it was reported, the listing will probably not be removed since the seller disclosed the customization of the dial. Any buyer will be stuck with a watch that can never be fixed by Rolex without an expensive dial replacement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
+1 Well Stated!
J_1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 06:52 AM   #12
City74
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Real Name: Bradley
Location: Virginia
Watch: Speedy Reduced
Posts: 727
It’s well know they sell less then perfect watches. I wouldn’t go so far as to say fakes but I certainly wouldn’t buy from them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
City74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 07:05 AM   #13
Bigblu10
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Real Name: Jaime
Location: Here
Posts: 5,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
A refinished authentic dial is not counterfeit.
How does one "refinish" a dial without messing with the original printed script done by the factory? Or is the term defined by adding diamonds/jewels to it?
Bigblu10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 07:25 AM   #14
J_1964
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Jim
Location: NoCal USA
Watch: 16710
Posts: 1,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigblu10 View Post
How does one "refinish" a dial without messing with the original printed script done by the factory? Or is the term defined by adding diamonds/jewels to it?
AND, How do you Refinish A Dial and The Date Window Gets Smaller?
J_1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 07:30 AM   #15
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 42,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigblu10 View Post
How does one "refinish" a dial without messing with the original printed script done by the factory? Or is the term defined by adding diamonds/jewels to it?
There are no trademark laws being violated when removing the painted surfaces and fonts from a product and replacing them, even if the work is sub-standard. It's crap, but it isn't counterfeit.

Same with adding diamonds to an authentic dial.. It isn't original any longer, but it isn't counterfeit, it's aftermarket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_1964 View Post
AND, How do you Refinish A Dial and The Date Window Gets Smaller?
In this case the customizer has added trim around the date window. Not a look I care for, but somebody may like it.
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 07:54 AM   #16
crowncollection
"TRF" Member
 
crowncollection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: David
Location: australia
Posts: 20,152
Not reportable imho no laws violated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
watches many
crowncollection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 08:04 AM   #17
GGGMT
2024 Pledge Member
 
GGGMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 7,959
Welcome to beckertime. This is what they do and they’re clear about it. If you want a Rolex that hasn’t been sodomized, don’t buy from beckertime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GGGMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 08:18 AM   #18
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 42,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGGMT View Post
Welcome to beckertime. This is what they do and they’re clear about it. If you want a Rolex that hasn’t been sodomized, don’t buy from beckertime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unfortunately, it is buyer-beware at on-line and walk-in used shops. Bobs, Beckertime, and a few others want to sell the best looking and quickest moving products. They are not watch authenticators or purists.


Rolex shut down Melrose a couple of years back for using counterfeit parts and mismatched pieces, claiming they were authentic; they were a top on-line seller for a while. Plenty of their products still out in the wild, but they are in the wind.
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 08:20 AM   #19
GGGMT
2024 Pledge Member
 
GGGMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 7,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
Unfortunately, it is buyer-beware at on-line and walk-in used shops. Bobs, Beckertime, and a few others want to sell the best looking and quickest moving products. They are not watch authenticators or purists.





Rolex shut down Melrose a couple of years back for using counterfeit parts and mismatched pieces, claiming they were authentic; they were a top on-line seller for a while. Plenty of their products still out in the wild, but they are in the wind.


We are in heated agreement. Though Bobs in my experience sells much finer product than beckertime, and bobs doesn’t make a living at refinishing dials like Becker does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GGGMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 08:50 AM   #20
77T
2024 Pledge Member
 
77T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 40,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowncollection View Post
Not reportable imho no laws violated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree David, ergo my post about the actual details.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________


Does anyone really know what time it is?
77T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 October 2018, 10:34 AM   #21
mrblue
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 156
Actually Bob's is quite good. They guarantee authenticity. I don't know what else you could ask for. Not everyone buys brand new from ADs. I quite like 5 digit references.
mrblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 October 2018, 12:04 AM   #22
Chewbacca
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Real Name: CJ
Location: Kashyyyk
Watch: Kessel Run Chrono
Posts: 21,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
There are no trademark laws being violated when removing the painted surfaces and fonts from a product and replacing them, even if the work is sub-standard. It's crap, but it isn't counterfeit.

Same with adding diamonds to an authentic dial.. It isn't original any longer, but it isn't counterfeit, it's aftermarket.



In this case the customizer has added trim around the date window. Not a look I care for, but somebody may like it.

Ditto.
Chewbacca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2018, 02:04 AM   #23
Watchcollectables
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
Ditto.
Actually I have to disagree . In this case the dial has a coronet at 12 which is not made by Rolex . Most of these so called -refinished- dials do . Its because most of them have never seen a Rolex factory in their life .
If a dial is refinished generally the original Gold coronet exists and is used not some stubby square and badly punched out thing that usually sits in an incorrect position on the dial .
If you then add the Rolex logo to a dial it becomes passing off and its illegal .I guess there are so many thousands out there Rolex dont have the time to pursue them all.
Watchcollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2018, 12:06 AM   #24
Chewbacca
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Real Name: CJ
Location: Kashyyyk
Watch: Kessel Run Chrono
Posts: 21,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchcollectables View Post
Actually I have to disagree . In this case the dial has a coronet at 12 which is not made by Rolex . Most of these so called -refinished- dials do . Its because most of them have never seen a Rolex factory in their life .
If a dial is refinished generally the original Gold coronet exists and is used not some stubby square and badly punched out thing that usually sits in an incorrect position on the dial .
If you then add the Rolex logo to a dial it becomes passing off and its illegal .I guess there are so many thousands out there Rolex dont have the time to pursue them all.
I stand by my ditto plus infinity.
Chewbacca is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.