15047st allocation

[Armis]

Originally Posted by Xerxes77

I live in Europe and 3 weeks ago my AD write me an email and ask me if I sell my CODE because some AP employee from Japan put me on the black list because found one CODE where he see series and match with my CODE. Of course I send pictures with my CODE to my AD who contact AP Japan and ask for pictures and after they check they arrived to the conclusion that it’s not my watch.
So, if for a CODE they hunt flippers we can imagine how they hunt 50 anniversary or 15407 who are very rare.
This is my experience…..
I hope help you

The scary part of this story is that you are in Europe but it was a random AP worker in Japan (boutique?) who saw a serial number of a watch for sale but still incorrectly connected it to your watch AND automatically blacklisted you! That is very unfair to allow practices like that. Instead, there can be a small dedicated division at HQ, or with HQ oversight, that has proper processes in place to track or investigate flippers. Otherwise, I can’t imagine dedicated and established customers accepting this type of wrongful accusation and blacklisting. I’m just glad to see that your original SA had the courtesy to check with you.
Also, there is no obligation to AP for owners to be forced to keep their pieces forever, which I believe long-standing AP collectors on this forum have confirmed.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Armis

The scary part of this story is that you are in Europe but it was a random AP worker in Japan (boutique?) who saw a serial number of a watch for sale but still incorrectly connected it to your watch AND automatically blacklisted you! That is very unfair to allow practices like that. Instead, there can be a small dedicated division at HQ, or with HQ oversight, that has proper processes in place to track or investigate flippers. Otherwise, I can’t imagine dedicated and established customers accepting this type of wrongful accusation and blacklisting. I’m just glad to see that your original SA had the courtesy to check with you.
Also, there is no obligation to AP for owners to be forced to keep their pieces forever, which I believe long-standing AP collectors on this forum have confirmed.

I have the opposite read on this story. First, no harm was done, other than a minor inconvenience to Xerxes77. Second, AP is trying to fight the scourge of flipping, and third, 2 years << forever.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Horsin’ Around

What can these ADs do exactly to track flippers?

What they find must be just passive incidental findings. Do you think they are actively doing anything to track flippers?

That's what the whole registration-for-extended-warranty scheme is about.

[Reign]

Originally Posted by Horsin’ Around

What can these ADs do exactly to track flippers?

What they find must be just passive incidental findings. Do you think they are actively doing anything to track flippers?


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Every watch sold at a boutique is registered to your online profile. If you sell and it’s re-registered under someone else, it gets flagged. It explains why watches are being sold without the card, so the watch can’t get re registered. But even if you buy the watch grey and bring it in to get it resized, they’ll run the serials on that watch.

At the end of every month, each boutique gets a list of who’s flipped and toast.

Folks gotta realize it’s a deep market for AP and given where prices have been, some people are willing to torch their relationship.


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[Armis]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I have the opposite read on this story. First, no harm was done, other than a minor inconvenience to Xerxes77. Second, AP is trying to fight the scourge of flipping, and third, 2 years << forever.

Ultimately it is a watch, but I disagree that having one’s integrity called into question and being acted upon is minor. Yes, flipping is a big issue with significant implications, but inasmuch as AP values client relationships the experience of Xerxes77 shouldn’t become the acceptable norm. The main point is that a serious attempt to address flipping would ideally entail a systematic process of assessment/confirmation (as opposed to the employee in Japan seeing something and automatically blacklisting, then contacting local SA vs. vs. referring it to local SA at start…which may be what actually happened). Most likely, I expect that his SA was very apologetic and acknowledging of the significance of the mistaken identity and hasty action, but thankfully this is not a common event. All’s well that ends well.

[Xerxes77]

Originally Posted by Armis

Ultimately it is a watch, but I disagree that having one’s integrity called into question and being acted upon is minor. Yes, flipping is a big issue with significant implications, but inasmuch as AP values client relationships the experience of Xerxes77 shouldn’t become the acceptable norm. The main point is that a serious attempt to address flipping would ideally entail a systematic process of assessment/confirmation (as opposed to the employee in Japan seeing something and automatically blacklisting, then contacting local SA vs. vs. referring it to local SA at start…which may be what actually happened). Most likely, I expect that his SA was very apologetic and acknowledging of the significance of the mistaken identity and hasty action, but thankfully this is not a common event. All’s well that ends well.

I think you have right and I told to my AD that.
I think before email to a client and tell this first must be sure that it’s his watch.
In my case the employee from Japan see on a site a CODE and see partial series and have an excess of duty call and after check all (I don’t know how because don’t see all series) his conclusion was that’s my watch.
It’s not a problem but 2 years ago when I received my Nautilus 5726 blue dial the owner of AD was a lady and she told me this: “ no matter what Patek wants after the customer buy the watche and leave the store I can’t guarantee nothing “….
On other hands AP control much better the sales process even on different cases they make some strategy mistakes and then try to repair…… exemple: AP CEO initially give priority on 50 anniversary to new client trying with this strategy to attract more customers….. in the end he understood that for many of this new clients opportunity to have this piece only was a opportunity to make some easy money….. no feelings for what represents this piece….
Anyway 15407 it’s a special watch….. so, continue the road to this piece

[911AP]

Originally Posted by 7sins

It has to be approved by AP Corporate. You could have a high spend history but if you sold them or changed your collection, your chances go back down. My understanding, when your boutique goes for approval now, they want to see you currently own a diversified AP collection ie code, RO, ROO, ladies etc etc. This obviously varies by boutique and country but I have seen consistent for AP Corp owned boutiques. For example, I have a meaningful purchase history and strong longterm boutique relationships but have rotated out of many previous purchases over the years, this ruled me out for a white ceramic QP a few months back, a similar category to the skeleton.

That's stupid as hell. They expect you to keep everything? What if you get bored of a watch and stop wearing it? I sold a 44 ROO because the 43 ROO is way better in every way. I'd never wear the 44 again. So now you get punished for that? Stupid.....

[911AP]

Originally Posted by Xerxes77

I think you have right and I told to my AD that.
I think before email to a client and tell this first must be sure that it’s his watch.
In my case the employee from Japan see on a site a CODE and see partial series and have an excess of duty call and after check all (I don’t know how because don’t see all series) his conclusion was that’s my watch.
It’s not a problem but 2 years ago when I received my Nautilus 5726 blue dial the owner of AD was a lady and she told me this: “ no matter what Patek wants after the customer buy the watche and leave the store I can’t guarantee nothing “….
On other hands AP control much better the sales process even on different cases they make some strategy mistakes and then try to repair…… exemple: AP CEO initially give priority on 50 anniversary to new client trying with this strategy to attract more customers….. in the end he understood that for many of this new clients opportunity to have this piece only was a opportunity to make some easy money….. no feelings for what represents this piece….
Anyway 15407 it’s a special watch….. so, continue the road to this piece

It didn't go to average 1st time buyers. It went to very successful celebrity first time buyers. The whole first time AP buyer thing was nonsense. They clearly are doing a lousy job allocation 50th anniversaries. There was a grey dealer posting a video of a guy with 3 briefcases filled with nothing but 50th anniversary watches. They shouldn't punish/flag you whatever if you sell a watch after like 3 years or something. It's dumb to assume you have to keep everything to get something. Some people can't afford to do that. A lot of us have to sell something to get something new. Or sell something and add some cash to get something better.

[Xerxes77]

Completely agree with your point


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[Qngo516]

Originally Posted by 911AP

They shouldn't punish/flag you whatever if you sell a watch after like 3 years or something. It's dumb to assume you have to keep everything to get something. Some people can't afford to do that. A lot of us have to sell something to get something new. Or sell something and add some cash to get something better.

Why is it dumb a for-profit, ultra lux corp to select their ideal customers??? They want clients who are willing to hold 5y, 10y, 2 decades, to avoid flood of watches poured out to opened market. If you aren’t willing to hold, you are not their ideal candidate. Many of us here are NOT AP ideal customers.

Their house. Their game. Their rules.


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[Screwly]

Originally Posted by Qngo516

Why is it dumb a for-profit, ultra lux corp to select their ideal customers??? They want clients who are willing to hold 5y, 10y, 2 decades, to avoid flood of watches poured out to opened market. If you aren’t willing to hold, you are not their ideal candidate. Many of us here are NOT AP ideal customers.

Their house. Their game. Their rules.


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I think you are 100% correct. IMO AP is doing the best at selecting their customers and weeding out the flippers. Its not fun being the customer waiting for the allocated pieces, but the customer that holds will be rewarded with the hard to get models. Time and patience is the key here, and having the strength to not sell or trade a watch.

[mickyd329]

I honestly don't have a problem holding pieces as long I as I can get pieces I want. I think moving a piece after the warranty is expired after consulting your boutique is probably the best course. I know it doesn't seem right to many, but like others have said, it's AP's decision on who they sell to and maybe a necessary evil to weed out flippers. I think AP does a better job than others in this area. As long as this type of market continues, I don't see it changing much. Now if the market conditions change and there is more supply than demand, I'm sure we will see a different scenario play out.

[Screwly]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

I honestly don't have a problem holding pieces as long I as I can get pieces I want. I think moving a piece after the warranty is expired after consulting your boutique is probably the best course. I know it doesn't seem right to many, but like others have said, it's AP's decision on who they sell to and maybe a necessary evil to weed out flippers. I think AP does a better job than others in this area. As long as this type of market continues, I don't see it changing much. Now if the market conditions change and there is more supply than demand, I'm sure we will see a different scenario play out.

You are spot on about moving a reference. I think the best bet is consulting them first so the my are aware you are selling/trading. I’m fine with this practice if it lets me build my collection with references I want.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Screwly

I think you are 100% correct. IMO AP is doing the best at selecting their customers and weeding out the flippers. Its not fun being the customer waiting for the allocated pieces, but the customer that holds will be rewarded with the hard to get models. Time and patience is the key here, and having the strength to not sell or trade a watch.

I'm not a flipper but when I met an AP SE recently, I was given the impression that I need to buy a Code or 2 before I will be given any 38mm ROC allocation. I'm new to the AP Boutique though I have previous AP purchases with my AD. I do like the Code but the 41mm plus lug-to-lug are simply too large for my wrist, and I do not want to flip it as that could be an issue if AP eventually knows about it, one way or another.

I haven't heard from the SE since I decline the Code. I understand everyone loves the RO and AP can't sell it to everyone, but I just can't seem to find a way to start the relationship. I still love the Brand and their RO nonetheless...

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I'm not a flipper but when I met an AP SE recently, I was given the impression that I need to buy a Code or 2 before I will be given any 38mm ROC allocation. I'm new to the AP Boutique though. I have previous AP purchases with my AD. I do like the Code but the 41mm plus lug-to-lug are simply too large for my wrist, and I do not want to flip it as that could be an issue if AP eventually knows about it, one way or another.

I haven't heard from the SE since I decline the Code. I understand everyone loves the RO and AP can't sell it to everyone, but I just can't seem to find a way to start the relationship. I still love the Brand and their RO nonetheless...

Unfortunately that’s the case bro. Even AP KL is requesting the same here to “strengthen the relationship” with CODE before allowing more RO purchases. And on top of that, it’s must be a basic 3 hander code or normal CODE chronograph. When asked about the QP CODE or ceramic CODE they said those require management approval and will be difficult without “profile building”

[benlee]

If AP is doing such a good job to weed out the flippers, how to explain the many BNIB ROs that are in grey dealers inventory? Some of them even openly promote them in youtube. This has been going on for years.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by benlee

If AP is doing such a good job to weed out the flippers, how to explain the many BNIB ROs that are in grey dealers inventory? Some of them even openly promote them in youtube. This has been going on for years.

Totally agree, but this holds true for any brand. Can you imagine how many more would be on the grey market if AP didn't try to have a process in place though?

[7sins]

Originally Posted by benlee

If AP is doing such a good job to weed out the flippers, how to explain the many BNIB ROs that are in grey dealers inventory? Some of them even openly promote them in youtube. This has been going on for years.

IMO, it is the dichotomy between AP Corporate Boutiques vs Authorized Dealers not owned by corporate. The latter I know are selling out the backdoor for kickbacks and thus why you are seeing BNIB 50th watches in grey inventory. AP Corporate would never let that fly, thus they can only control AD's so much and that is a main reason they are taking over more stores around the world. This isn't exclusive to AP, same thing happens at other brand ADs as well, probably more so.

Ultimately you will never be able to entirely eradicate flippers when watches trade above MSRP, they were very strict on their criteria for 50th allocations, often to those who they knew didn't need the monetary gain nor would risk the relationship for a quick flip. AP made this incredibly clear to SAs and notified them their would be consequences to the SA for their clients who were caught flipping.

They are doing everything they can within their purview, whether you agree to their method or not, is your choice. It is, at the very least, a step in the right direction.

[GoWarriors]

Or just buy it on secondary market. That way you can skip straight to the cool stuff.

Code = $30k

15510 = $25k

Or you can buy a 15500ST (in black, not blue) for $52k right now. 'Unworn' condition, from a very trusted secondary seller. And it'll be on your doorstep in 48hrs. Guess I'm a bit lucky, as I prefer Offshores - and they don't trade at a huge premium to retail.

Not sure I would ever pay the current premium for a 15047ST, for example.

[Ichiran]

I know the header was wrong but the correct reference should be 15407ST.

[GoWarriors]

Ah thank you :)

[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by Qngo516

Why is it dumb a for-profit, ultra lux corp to select their ideal customers??? They want clients who are willing to hold 5y, 10y, 2 decades, to avoid flood of watches poured out to opened market. If you aren’t willing to hold, you are not their ideal candidate. Many of us here are NOT AP ideal customers.

Their house. Their game. Their rules.


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I fully agree with this as long as the boutique isn't strongly encouraging people to buy things they don't want. It seems like there isn't consistency across boutiques (see the previous few posts).

[Qngo516]

Originally Posted by LPC6

I fully agree with this as long as the boutique isn't strongly encouraging people to buy things they don't want. It seems like there isn't consistency across boutiques (see the previous few posts).

I agreed that the rules for obtaining an RO is wildly inconsistent. It’s inconsistent across boutiques and inconsistent from SA to SA at the same boutique.

What that tells me is: there’s no rule.

The rule of this game is entirely made up by your SA. If your SA connects with you, you win.

Treat your SA like Jesus himself. Minus the nailing part.

There’s no rules, make your own.


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[APWhale]

Originally Posted by AEV

I am nowhere near this piece, but my SA has given examples that specifically for a Jumbo which also needs approval by HQ, that they are looking for diversity within the collection - in that particular case it was Code, RO, ROO and then 15202.

This is spot on.