1978 Oyster Submariner 5513/0 - pre-Comex with special engraving

[bondtoys]

Mike Wood has already postd here, imo you should get in touch with Haywood Milton

https://www.rolexforums.com/member.php?u=14127

To discuss the next steps

Don‘t let Rolex do anything on the watch

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by 037

That makes it a 5514, not a 5513. You'll need to research the 5514 model to determine value. Technically we aren't supposed to offer valuations here per the rules. If you're in any way trying to sell it here then you need to follow those rules as well and purchase the appropriate membership.



Good luck / Bonne chance

There were a few 5513 HEV prototype with comex number on the back although nothing like OP’s. 5514 should have comex on the dial.

To OP, the comex experts on these forum r jedly n Haywood Milton. Use the search function n send them both private messages to see if they respond. Hopefully both would comment on the forum so we can learn a thing or two.

Unfortunately there was Another really awesome n very helpful expert in comex, Marcelo Pisani, but he passed away years ago. Presumably he has the list of all comex watches that was circulated.


I blame it on autoconnect.

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by athom

A comex watch without a comex dial is for me pointless...

So u r saying prototype watches r pointless. It’s like saying SS day date is pointless.


I blame it on autoconnect.

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by Hugooo

The full story is something like this : someone in my family works at Patek and knows a few people at Rolex. She contacted one and he did the procedure with rolex, and his offer (from what I understand), is him doing it under his name (and not Rolex). But I agree it's a bit weird.



I'm currently working on getting more documentations and provenance for the watch, but my uncle died a few years back, and he was pretty distant from the rest of the family at the time, so it's not the easiest.



I will keep this thread updated with the more info I find.



Thank you for your advice!







For Rolex Geneve, see what I wrote above.

For the Auction's house, I honestly don't know. It's risky in my mind and I agree it's not necessarily the best route. Although that may be where we touch the more people that could have interest in this.







I did not manage to find a direcrtoy between the serial numbers and the model, all I find is the year of production (supposedly 1978) when I look for the serial number. How do you know? by experience?



And again, I'm saying it's a 5513 because that's what the paper from Rolex is saying. I'm putting it attached to this post.



Very interesting for the dial hands and bezel, how can you tell? I'm very curious about this.



Thank you for your time and your expertise!







Attached. Rolex SA (I guess this is Geneva from a Google Search) had their hands on it.







I'll try to keep this thread updated the more info I find.

And yeah the ban thing is pretty weird.







I don't know what CG is ?







Thanks a lot, it's my pleasure to share the story.

Thank you also for your advice.

Now that I see the paper n serial number, I agree with mike wood that the dial hands n insert was replaced during service. It’s a pity, otherwise it’s really a nice piece of Rolex history. The value will likely take a hit because of this.


I blame it on autoconnect.

[scooba]

I would leave it alone , Mike Wood has kindly commented it would be in the OPs interest to ask Both MW and Haywood Milton for valuations and how to proceed if its actually for sale

[Hugooo]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

you should get in touch with Haywood Milton to discuss the next steps

Originally Posted by omitohud

There were a few 5513 HEV prototype with comex number on the back although nothing like OP’s. 5514 should have comex on the dial.

To OP, the comex experts on these forum r jedly n Haywood Milton. Use the search function n send them both private messages to see if they respond. Hopefully both would comment on the forum so we can learn a thing or two.

Tried both their private message but I can't send anything because their box are full so I don't know how to get in contact with them? In a respectful manner.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Mike Wood has already postd here, imo you should get in touch with Haywood Milton

https://www.rolexforums.com/member.php?u=14127

That's a kind recommendation, thank you, but my inbox here is now permanently filled beyond the point at which it will receive further messages. When it got to the stage where I was receiving two or three requests a day from forum members asking me for my thoughts on "the investment potential of GMTs over Submariners," "whether I knew of an imminent price rise in Greenland" or "whether this watch is any good, that another dealer is selling me," it was unsustainable. There are ways to contact me, of course.

I'm not convinced by this watch. The dial has no "Comex" value (though there are some original non-logo ones which might, for me), the case-back is unlike anything I've seen and the HEV doesn't look consistent with what I'd expect. Further images and detail required before excitement is justified.

Haywood

IG : haywood_milton_rolex

[037]

Originally Posted by omitohud

There were a few 5513 HEV prototype with comex number on the back although nothing like OP’s. 5514 should have comex on the dial.

Agreed. My take was the latter. It looks like the Comex dial is long gone and replaced with a service dial, hence why I'd expect this to be a 5514. A prototype 5513 HEV winding up as a gift to a diver sounds a bit odd, especially without the correct caseback, although I'm by no means an expert in Comex history. If the case does indeed say 5513 then I'm less inclined to believe the validity of this one. It was a stretch to begin with an isn't getting any shorter.

If it's a genuine 5513 (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) then its value would be as that. Without provenance and the correct dial, this is just a Sub with sentimental value.

[scooba]

Could we see the serial number and ref no on the Case this may help clarify some areas ?

Just remove the bracelet ?

[Hugooo]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

That's a kind recommendation, thank you, but my inbox here is now permanently filled beyond the point at which it will receive further messages. When it got to the stage where I was receiving two or three requests a day from forum members asking me for my thoughts on "the investment potential of GMTs over Submariners," "whether I knew of an imminent price rise in Greenland" or "whether this watch is any good, that another dealer is selling me," it was unsustainable. There are ways to contact me, of course.

I'm not convinced by this watch. The dial has no "Comex" value (though there are some original non-logo ones which might, for me), the case-back is unlike anything I've seen and the HEV doesn't look consistent with what I'd expect. Further images and detail required before excitement is justified.

Haywood

IG : haywood_milton_rolex

Thanks a lot for the input. I will try to contact you in a few weeks directly through your website (if that's okay).

Originally Posted by 037

Agreed. My take was the latter. It looks like the Comex dial is long gone and replaced with a service dial, hence why I'd expect this to be a 5514. A prototype 5513 HEV winding up as a gift to a diver sounds a bit odd, especially without the correct caseback, although I'm by no means an expert in Comex history. If the case does indeed say 5513 then I'm less inclined to believe the validity of this one. It was a stretch to begin with an isn't getting any shorter.

If it's a genuine 5513 (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) then its value would be as that. Without provenance and the correct dial, this is just a Sub with sentimental value.

It is a 5514 according to what's under the bracelet. I don't know what to make of it though.

Originally Posted by scooba

Could we see the serial number and ref no on the Case this may help clarify some areas ?

Just remove the bracelet ?

See attached pictures.

_______________________________


Hi guys,

Thank you all for your input, this is very helpful. I'm still unsure of how to proceed next, but I hope that will come with some more research.

I did not had access to the watch for more than a week but I finally manage to get some pictures of under the bracelet (5514) and of some diving documentation (see attached).

The document that was found is his diver log book. it records all the dives he made professionally. The dives he made for COMEX in their R&D division are sadly not logged in this as they were not paid by a client (that's the reason my mom remembers).
In this was a certificate of competence from the AODC (Association of Diving Contractors).

If you guys have more input on this, I would gladly appreciate it. If not, I'm glad I can share this story and I will keep this thread updated.

Regards

[037]

Originally Posted by Hugooo

It is a 5514 according to what's under the bracelet. I don't know what to make of it though.

Outstanding. That's one case where I'm glad to have been correct. A genuine 5514 is worth good money assuming everything checks out.

Hopefully Haywood can help you out. You're sitting on something special.

[Hugooo]

Originally Posted by 037

Outstanding. That's one case where I'm glad to have been correct. A genuine 5514 is worth good money assuming everything checks out.

Hopefully Haywood can help you out. You're sitting on something special.

Thanks for the answer.
So it's considered a 5514 Comex? pre-Comex?
Considering it's pretty unique compared to what I can find on the market (Comex is either on the dial or stamped in the back), I have a hard time finding points of comparaison.

And when you say "assuming everything checks out", what could pose problem?

Thanks in advance.

[037]

Originally Posted by Hugooo

Thanks for the answer.
So it's considered a 5514 Comex? pre-Comex?
Considering it's pretty unique compared to what I can find on the market (Comex is either on the dial or stamped in the back), I have a hard time finding points of comparaison.

And when you say "assuming everything checks out", what could pose problem?

Thanks in advance.

"Assuming everything checks out" means just that; I've not had your watch in my hands to inspect it so I can't sign off on what you have or what's inside. That's not to be taken as a negative.

I'm also by no means a Comex or 5514 expert to say what's what on your watch. The lack of a Comex dial and traditional Comex caseback engraving puts you in a unique category. You're likely north of a 5513 in value but south of a proper Comex 5514, but that's just a WAG on my part.

[Mike Wood]

Originally Posted by Hugooo

I did not manage to find a direcrtoy between the serial numbers and the model, all I find is the year of production (supposedly 1978) when I look for the serial number. How do you know? by experience?

Because I collect Comex Rolexes.

If you are able to remove the bracelet from the head of the watch, it will be possible to read the reference number and serial number from between the lugs (reference no. at 12 o'clock, serial number at 6 o'clock). I want the reference to be 5514...if it is not, I would have concerns.

MW

**And now confirmed**

[Hugooo]

Originally Posted by 037

I'm also by no means a Comex or 5514 expert to say what's what on your watch. The lack of a Comex dial and traditional Comex caseback engraving puts you in a unique category. You're likely north of a 5513 in value but south of a proper Comex 5514, but that's just a WAG on my part.

Originally Posted by Mike Wood

Because I collect Comex Rolexes.

If you are able to remove the bracelet from the head of the watch, it will be possible to read the reference number and serial number from between the lugs (reference no. at 12 o'clock, serial number at 6 o'clock). I want the reference to be 5514...if it is not, I would have concerns.

MW

Haha true that.
I did remove the bracelet, and the numbers are as expected:
12 o'clock, same as the one on the Rolex "invoice" : 523XXXX (I can pm you the full number if you need).
6 o'clock, 5514 (see pic above, not super clear but it's 5514).

What does that tell me regarding the watch?
If I understand this correctly from your post and the ones before, it use to have a Comex dial, but was replaced with the non-comex dial that we have today? Or did it never had a comex dial?

Thank you both for the input.

Also, something I forgot to mention is that we're getting in contact with the divers that knew my uncle to see if we can have more info on the history of this watch. Some of them that have already sold their comex watch so it should be interesting.
As I said, I will keep this post updated.

[brigadoonb]

great thread......

[Coop13]

Originally Posted by Hugooo

Haha true that.
I did remove the bracelet, and the numbers are as expected:
12 o'clock, same as the one on the Rolex "invoice" : 523XXXX (I can pm you the full number if you need).
6 o'clock, 5514 (see pic above, not super clear but it's 5514).

What does that tell me regarding the watch?
If I understand this correctly from your post and the ones before, it use to have a Comex dial, but was replaced with the non-comex dial that we have today? Or did it never had a comex dial?

Thank you both for the input.

Also, something I forgot to mention is that we're getting in contact with the divers that knew my uncle to see if we can have more info on the history of this watch. Some of them that have already sold their comex watch so it should be interesting.
As I said, I will keep this post updated.

Anything new for us?

[Hugooo]

Hi everybody,

Quick update on this thread since it's been a while.
We're having a pretty hard time getting in contact with old pals of my uncle, that could possibly get us more info and possibly some documentation on this.

A few of them are at sea for most of the year so pretty much impossible to contact, and others are living in very remote parts of France and Europe in general.
I will keep this thread updated when I have more info.

[BigBlue1]

Cool. Good Luck. Excited for the ending.