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Old 18 May 2011, 10:50 AM   #1
landroverking
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Oyster Watch Co

Anyone have info on the Oyster Watch Co. Rolex brand from the 20s & 30s?
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Old 18 May 2011, 01:34 PM   #2
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Anyone have info on the Oyster Watch Co. Rolex brand from the 20s & 30s?
Actually, 20s-40s. It was one of the less expensive Rolex brands of the time (and most ubiquitous) that used contract movements, such as the Fontmelon caliber FF3,0 subsequently renamed the Rolex (and Tudor) caliber 59 (the movements were stamped Rolex Geneve on the top plate and were not engraved or stamped Rolex on the bridge). These watches otherwise were of high quality, although sometimes those sold in Canada had locally produced dials which were not quite up to the standards of the Swiss dials (IMO). They often had colorful model names (Centregraph, Raleigh, Victory, Lipton, Pioneer) and many were marketed to WWII soldiers in Canada and other Commonwealth countries. The cases tended to be either steel or gold filled, in contrast to many with the Rolex name which were solid gold in addition to steel. Other "lesser" brands were Unicorn and Tudor (which eventually superceded the others, by the late '40s).
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Old 18 May 2011, 06:37 PM   #3
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I've tried to find out more about the Oyster Watch Co - such as was it wholly owned by Rolex, where was it registered etc. But like most things about Rolex, they'd have to kill me if I found out. I suspect it might have been registered by Rolex Canada or Rolex UK.

Love to know more.... anybody???
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Old 18 May 2011, 11:33 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info so far. I have a model that dates to the 30's
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Old 18 May 2011, 11:54 PM   #5
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Here's one that belongs to my friend. Its from Canada, the WW II era.

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Old 19 May 2011, 01:23 AM   #6
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Since we're showing pictures





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Old 19 May 2011, 02:10 AM   #7
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As far as I have heard, Rolex bought the oyster watch company and used their case - crown design for the Rolex Oyster. The Oyster watch company was their own company not Rolex until Rolex bought them.
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Old 19 May 2011, 02:20 AM   #8
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As far as I have heard, Rolex bought the oyster watch company and used their case - crown design for the Rolex Oyster. The Oyster watch company was their own company not Rolex until Rolex bought them.
Do you know the year Rolex bought them?
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Old 19 May 2011, 09:13 AM   #9
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I want to say Rolex bought the Oyster watch co. in the 20's.
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Old 19 May 2011, 09:30 AM   #10
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I can not find anything on the internet, I remember seeing it in 80's-90's Rolex booklets. They had the time line of accomplishments and buying the oyster watch co. was one. I will do more research.
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Old 20 May 2011, 02:15 AM   #11
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I looked around and could not find anything. All I find is that Hans Wilsdorf was at dinner one night having a hard time getting a oyster open and at that time thought he would like a water proof watch case like that.
Oyster watch Co was a division of Rolex. At that time until the 50's the cases and movements were contracted out. Rolex did not make any of it.
In the beginning it was called Wilsdorf and Davis.
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Old 20 May 2011, 06:37 AM   #12
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I just bought one of these and will post a pic soon. There are lots of combinations of signatures on the face, inside cover and movement. Some say just "Oyster" on the face, others "Rolex Oyster". The movements look all the same, with different inscriptions. All say "swiss made" and the no. of rubies.

The inside cover engravings say "Oyster watch company", the RWCL logo, Geneva swiss and the model no. Serial number is engraved on the outside back cover.

The early auto bubblebacks are expensive, but the 30s and 40s manual Oysters aren't that expensive and are a nice collector piece for an Oyster owner.

Canadian Oysters were produced from the 30s to WWII with many different signatures. The movements were made by Fontmelon. The ones pictured here ("Raleigh", etc) are Canadian Rolex oysters.

They stopped making these watches when the Tudor was introduced--around 1945, I believe. Many were produced during wwII with military dials.
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Old 22 May 2011, 01:03 PM   #13
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Here's my Oyster:

Oyster5.jpg


Serial on back dates to 1944. The inside case says Oyster Watch Company, RWCL oval logo, Geneva swiss, model 2784.

The case is probably a high nickel SS, 904L. The manual movement is not Fontmelon, but more typically Rolex swiss, 15 rubies. case diam is 30mm.

Those fine scratches on the crystal buffed out nicely with cape cod cloth. The face is excellent. These watches have a screw-on two-stop crown which renders them water resistant.

Any idea what these watches cost new in the 1940s? I've seen a 1940 ad for Oyster perpetual SS with similar face at $87.50 (today equivalent to $1300.) That's pricey for the times. The manuals like this one had to have been much cheaper.
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Old 22 May 2011, 10:41 PM   #14
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Here's my Oyster:

...These watches have a screw-on two-stop crown which renders them water resistant.
The dial on the one you show has definitely been refinished.

They are likely no longer water-resistant, especially given the age of the crystal (or design of replacement crystal, as originals are no longer available), or unless the gaskets have been changed or crown/case tube have been replaced, so don't swim with one unless it has been particularly determined to be water resistant by a watchmaker.
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Old 22 May 2011, 11:41 PM   #15
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The dial on the one you show has definitely been refinished.

They are likely no longer water-resistant, especially given the age of the crystal (or design of replacement crystal, as originals are no longer available), or unless the gaskets have been changed or crown/case tube have been replaced, so don't swim with one unless it has been particularly determined to be water resistant by a watchmaker.
The stem and crown were replaced to Rolex standards. I can't vouch for the rest. Possible the black printing on the face has been touched up.

As a rule, I agree you never want to expose a vintage watch to water--even in the shower.
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Old 23 May 2011, 12:10 AM   #16
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I looked around and could not find anything. All I find is that Hans Wilsdorf was at dinner one night having a hard time getting a oyster open and at that time thought he would like a water proof watch case like that.
Oyster watch Co was a division of Rolex. At that time until the 50's the cases and movements were contracted out. Rolex did not make any of it.
In the beginning it was called Wilsdorf and Davis.
Oysters would have a tough time opening if their shells were screwed on.

In the Shugart price guide to watches (p.620, 22nd ed.), there is an ad for a 1940 Oyster Perpetual (same case and face as mine, except for signatures). The price is $87.50 (now $1300) for the SS and $97.50 for the "yellow" case (probably gp). The second hand cost an extra $2.50. It talks about a "patented crown construction" making the watch "permanently waterproof." It says "for Army, Navy or Air Force Service, the Oyster is the finest watch made." "The summit of watchmaking science."

$90. was a lot of money in those days for a soldier--even for a General. Around $1300 today, which is around what these "bubblebacks" bring these days. More likely a soldier would be wearing a manual Oyster like mine, which probably cost a fraction of the Oyster Perpetual price. $30 maybe?

I've read that Oyster watch company production stopped in '45 when Tudors were introduced, so the WWII OWCs were maybe the last ones.

What Oysters were sent to the British prisoners in 1943? I don't know, but Wisdorf states in his letters to them the watches are priced at 250 and 267 swiss francs. I don't know how much that was in American dollars in those days.
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Old 24 May 2011, 01:30 AM   #17
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Here's my Oyster:

Attachment 205736


Serial on back dates to 1944. The inside case says Oyster Watch Company, RWCL oval logo, Geneva swiss, model 2784.

The case is probably a high nickel SS, 904L. The manual movement is not Fontmelon, but more typically Rolex swiss, 15 rubies. case diam is 30mm.

Those fine scratches on the crystal buffed out nicely with cape cod cloth. The face is excellent. These watches have a screw-on two-stop crown which renders them water resistant.

Any idea what these watches cost new in the 1940s? I've seen a 1940 ad for Oyster perpetual SS with similar face at $87.50 (today equivalent to $1300.) That's pricey for the times. The manuals like this one had to have been much cheaper.
The serial no. on the back of the case has five large numbers 8xxxx dating to 1939. These numbers are preceded by a smaller number or letter which looks like a 7 or a 2. About 2/3 the size of the other numbers.
I don't know what that number refers to. It could be part of the serial number, or relate to the model? The inside cover has the model number 2784 engraved.
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Old 24 May 2011, 05:59 AM   #18
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Are there serial numbers engraved on the back of the cases for these Oysters?

Mine has a small 2 followed by five larger numbers, 8xxxx

why is the first number different in size?
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Old 28 May 2011, 11:33 AM   #19
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The dial on the one you show has definitely been refinished.

They are likely no longer water-resistant, especially given the age of the crystal (or design of replacement crystal, as originals are no longer available), or unless the gaskets have been changed or crown/case tube have been replaced, so don't swim with one unless it has been particularly determined to be water resistant by a watchmaker.
Did you notice the different "6" on the dials of the two Oyster Raleighs side-to side in the pics of an early post? One has a closed loop, the other open. Mine has a closed loop. There are examples of both in Imai's book on "3621 Rolexes".

The previous owner of my Oyster who bought it at an estate auction says the dial was not redone. But looking at it with a loop, I tend to agree with you.
A part of the bottom line below 6 o'clock looks redrawn--perhaps the "swiss made" underneath was brushed out. You also see a name under "Oyster" , like Raleigh, etc. That might have been brushed out. Maybe not, since i've seen just "Oyster" on the dial--but not often.

One thing that characterizes these 30s and 40s early Oysters--it is variety.
Much more so than the later Oyster perpetuals. Convention had not yet appeared.
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Old 28 May 2011, 01:46 PM   #20
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Are there serial numbers engraved on the back of the cases for these Oysters?

Mine has a small 2 followed by five larger numbers, 8xxxx

why is the first number different in size?
Yes, but they are the standard SNs from the early '40s:

Centregraph:




Raleigh:


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Old 31 October 2013, 02:02 AM   #21
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I am looking for an oyster patent crown for my oyster recorda. Anybody would know who I could get in touch with?
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Old 31 October 2013, 02:13 AM   #22
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Oysters would have a tough time opening if their shells were screwed on.

In the Shugart price guide to watches (p.620, 22nd ed.), there is an ad for a 1940 Oyster Perpetual (same case and face as mine, except for signatures). The price is $87.50 (now $1300) for the SS and $97.50 for the "yellow" case (probably gp). The second hand cost an extra $2.50. It talks about a "patented crown construction" making the watch "permanently waterproof." It says "for Army, Navy or Air Force Service, the Oyster is the finest watch made." "The summit of watchmaking science."

$90. was a lot of money in those days for a soldier--even for a General. Around $1300 today, which is around what these "bubblebacks" bring these days. More likely a soldier would be wearing a manual Oyster like mine, which probably cost a fraction of the Oyster Perpetual price. $30 maybe?

I've read that Oyster watch company production stopped in '45 when Tudors were introduced, so the WWII OWCs were maybe the last ones.

What Oysters were sent to the British prisoners in 1943? I don't know, but Wisdorf states in his letters to them the watches are priced at 250 and 267 swiss francs. I don't know how much that was in American dollars in those days.
I think the watches you are talking about are Rolex chronographs, one is about to come up for sale with great provenance, it was used in the great escape for a POW camp, it's expected to bring 30,000 pounds.they were t required to pay for the watch until after the war. Theres a few threads from the past week about the subject, ones in the vintage forum and other in general discussion here's one of the threads https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=320489
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Old 31 October 2013, 02:17 AM   #23
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I looked around and could not find anything. All I find is that Hans Wilsdorf was at dinner one night having a hard time getting a oyster open and at that time thought he would like a water proof watch case like that.
Oyster watch Co was a division of Rolex. At that time until the 50's the cases and movements were contracted out. Rolex did not make any of it.
In the beginning it was called Wilsdorf and Davis.
You are correct and here's a pic from the dinner.
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File Type: jpg Hans-Wildorf-Founder-Of-Rolex.jpg (95.8 KB, 812 views)
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Old 31 October 2013, 02:20 AM   #24
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You are correct and here's a pic from the dinner.
Wow mon, didn't know you were old enough to be there! How were the oysters???




but really cool pic
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Old 31 October 2013, 02:25 AM   #25
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Wow mon, didn't know you were old enough to be there! How were the oysters???




but really cool pic

Very hard to open and not chilled enough, otherwise it was a nice dinner.
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Old 31 October 2013, 02:32 AM   #26
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Very hard to open and not chilled enough, otherwise it was a nice dinner.
Atleast we got some cool watches out of it :D
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Old 31 October 2013, 03:29 AM   #27
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Anyone have info on the Oyster Watch Co. Rolex brand from the 20s & 30s?
During the RWC early period 1920s-30s many different types of watches were made, and at this time Rolex did not have complete control over their movement factory, they were only a minority shareholder. The full name of the company tells the story "Aegler, Société Anonyme,Horologies D Excellence Fabrique des Montres Rolex & Gruen Guild A.," this means, in translation, Aegler incorporated, manufacturer of Rolex & Gruen Guild A Watches. At this time ownership of the factory was split between three parties, Herman Aegler (movements), (Hans Wilsdorf of Rolex) and the Gruen brothers, Frederick Gruen and George Gruen.Now Aegler manufactured movements for both companies, who then sold the completed watches in their respective territories; Wilsdorf RWC sold only then throughout Europe, Asia, and the British Empire; whilst the Gruen brothers sold in the USA only. This arrangement worked well until Rolex acquired the patent for the the Oyster case; now they had something new and special which they wished to sell all over the world, not just in their limited territory. However the three way partnership prohibited Rolex from selling their products with Aegler movement in the Gruen brothers' territory (and vice-versa). So Hans of the RWC being a very clever and shrewd man, took a sideways move and fitted their new Oyster cases with a movement from FHF (Fontmelon)factory just down the road from Gruen and then tried to find a US distributor. They came across the firm of Abercrombie and Fitch,this was then a store specialising in sportsman's' equipment; whether you wanted to go elephant shooting in Africa, fishing for salmon or trout in Scotland, Abercrombie and Fitch was the place you went for all your equipment. Everything from fishing rods to double barreled shotguns could be found under their roof. As the sportsman's store they seemed the ideal place to sell the first oyster watches, which were already building a reputation as the sportsman's watch in the UK Canada and commonwealth. It may have seemed the ideal place but it did not work out that way, firstly because Rolex sold the cheaper down-market version of their watches in a high end store, and also because Abercrombie & Fitch did not advertise the watches sufficiently. These Abercrombie & Fitch watches are probably the rarest of all the cushion oysters in this world today. In all my life I have only ever seen one; it was signed "Abercrombie and Fitch (Seafarer) on the dial and the case and movement were signed Oyster Watch Company.The case was quite badly pitted because then they were made from a base metal, a chromed zinc material that did not last very long,a bit like the relationship between the RWC and Abercrombie & Fitch.Now later they went on to become the USA distributor for The Swiss Heuer watches, probably more of a sportsman's watch to speak of, being mainly then chronograph type watches.

After a couple of years in the desert the RWC decided to give the USA market another try. This was after they had been approached by Zell Brothers, a jewellery store chain in the Pacific North West of the USA, headquartered in Seattle. Zell had seen the great success of Rolex in Canada, and in Vancouver in particular (Seattle and Vancouver are only about 150km apart). They asked to be made the exclusive importer for the RWC in the Pacific North West, and Rolex eager to get a USA foot hold accepted their proposal. The strange thing is that, despite the Canadian success either Zell or Rolex decided not to use the famed "Oyster" name but substituted the name Turtle Timer, (IMHO undoubtedly Zell) Once again these were non-Aegler (non-Rolex made movements), so as not to disturb the three way relationship with Gruen. Zell were much more successful than Abercrombie/Fitch had been, but can hardly be described as having made a major market breakthrough. I have seen around 5 or 6 pictures of these watches and because they were made when Rolex was using real stainless steel the cases looked to have lasted much better than the A&F ones ever did. But Zells had two major problems as far as Rolex were concerned; firstly they were a regional not national chain and their insistence on using their own Turtle Timer name and not Oyster meant that Rolex would never reap the benefit of any of the new oyster case success.Now in these early days of Rolex only about 1 in 5 had the name Rolex on the Dial,the rest were blank dials when they left the factory.But after the arrival of the oyster case most of the oyster cased ones did have the name Rolex on the dial.

Zell Rolex Turtle Timer.



Now most of these problems were solved when Rolex gained the right to enter the US market themselves when the Gruen brothers left the board of Aegler in mid 1930s selling their shares to the two remaining parties; their place on the board of the company was taken by Emil Borer who really invented the oyster case,and who was Herman Aegler's brother in law, the technical director of the RWC, and much more significantly the man who supposedly invented the Perpetual movement for the company.Now this new movement was the first one from Aegler (Rolex), that was not made available to Gruen, and so gave Rolex a unique advantage when they were able to take advantage of their new found ability to enter the US market; which they did just as the US entered WW11, around 1942.
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Old 31 October 2013, 04:09 AM   #28
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Wow thanks padi
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Old 31 October 2013, 09:41 AM   #29
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Hi there

I am looking for a gold oyster patent crown to replace the damaged one on my oyster recorda. Would appreciate if you have any advice in where I could get one.
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Old 10 January 2014, 02:07 PM   #30
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Here is a photo of my Abercrombie Fitch & Co. Oyster Cushion Case.

[IMG][/IMG]
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