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Old 12 October 2021, 08:01 AM   #1
agent_orange
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AJlikeswatches - illegal restocking fee

Hi,

For a long time - I really wanted to get a Rolex Explorer 1 - reference 214270, 39mm with an MK2 dial.
This model was discontinued by Rolex for the smaller 36mm. Nonetheless, I REALLY wanted the 39mm version and was ready to pay a premium.
I intended to wear the piece only on special occasions and wanted it NEW without ANY wear marks.
I found a few options in the US and decided to go for a dealer in NYC that goes under the following names:

AJlikeswatches
or
AJA Diamonds & Watches
or
Manhattan Buyers inc.
The business appears to be operated by: Arthur J. Abramov and Dennis Shamoff. They also have a Chrono24 page

With successful and pleasant transactions in the past - Chrono24 is my go to place when looking for a new watch.
I thought about completing the deal through Chrono24 this time as well - but was suggested by the dealer to go direct instead for a better price.
It turns out that this is a violation of Chrono24 rules but I honestly didn't know at the time.
Anyways, I decided to trust the dealer and go direct for the promise of a better price.
I explicitly mentioned to him how important it was to me for the watch to be NEW with absolutely ZERO signs of wear.
He reassured me that it's absolutely perfect and has NO signs of wear - "Nothing" as he said. So I wired the money ( 10,995$ ).

The box arrived in a few days. But after close inspection I immediately saw that the watch had obvious wear marks:
1. 3 Dings on the right lower lug.
2. 2 wide scratches on the case back.
3. A scratch on the bezel.
4. A wide scratch on the clasp.

Disappointed and upset - I immediately took pictures of the damage and contacted the dealer.
Instead of being apologetic about the watch having wear marks - he was dismissive and claimed the damages are minor.
He said: "These are microscopic" and suggested: "If you want I can buff them out for you".
I explained to him that "NEW" means absolutely no damage and that I want to return the watch.

At this point he said that accepting back the watch will involve a restocking fee of a 1000$.
I urged him to forgo the restocking fee because it's unlawful to charge a fee for a watch that was sold as NEW but turned out to have damage marks.
Unfortunately, this was to no vein and he insisted on the 1000$.

I sent him the watch and he refunded me a partial amount of: 10,000$.
I filled a complaint with NYC's department of commerce and they suggested me to file a lawsuit against the dealer in a small claims court.

At the moment of posting - the watch is still listed on Chrono24
As well as on the dealers private site

The Rolex Serial Number of the watch is: 9P0164W3.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg Bezel.jpeg (133.6 KB, 581 views)
File Type: jpg Clasp.jpg (84.9 KB, 579 views)
File Type: jpg caseback.jpg (74.4 KB, 571 views)
File Type: jpg lower_right_edge.jpg (125.2 KB, 581 views)
File Type: jpg lower_right_edge2.jpg (208.7 KB, 580 views)
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Old 12 October 2021, 08:37 AM   #2
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That would piss me off, good luck with what youíre going to need to go through.
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Old 12 October 2021, 09:07 AM   #3
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Yeah, if I opened the box and saw that I'd be really upset as well. If it was used and a good price, fine... but to have that 'new watch high' and expectation and you get this, argh! If you have the time I'm sure you can get your restocking fee back in small claims.
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Old 12 October 2021, 09:11 AM   #4
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Well, that's not cool.
Was this seller the original receiver of the watch from Rolex ?

Anything past that first, original transaction, the watch can be "Like new" or "As New", but not "New"...
"Like New" is a subjective evaluation that can differ between buyer and seller.
He may make the argument that if was not the original receiver of the watch from Rolex, you should have expected it to be not "New" in the legal sense, and he can therefore charge you the restocking fee.

good luck !
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Old 12 October 2021, 09:15 AM   #5
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He should refund you
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Old 12 October 2021, 10:16 AM   #6
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Jeez what a scumbag way of doing business.

Chrono24 acts with the same guidelines as eBay. He was obviously trying to avoid commissions to Chrono24. I’d report to them as well. Maybe he gets banned from there.

I guess in the end it would’ve been better to deal via Chrono24 versus offsite. The money you saved, now lost, you might’ve gotten a full refund if you had done so. Plus possibly having more costs if you seek legal action. Not rubbing salt. It’s terrible what the seller did. Wishing you the best of luck.
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Old 12 October 2021, 06:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiparks View Post
Well, that's not cool.
Was this seller the original receiver of the watch from Rolex ?

Anything past that first, original transaction, the watch can be "Like new" or "As New", but not "New"...
"Like New" is a subjective evaluation that can differ between buyer and seller.
He may make the argument that if was not the original receiver of the watch from Rolex, you should have expected it to be not "New" in the legal sense, and he can therefore charge you the restocking fee.

good luck !
Hi,
Thanks for your feedback and support!
The card is dated to 2019 and doesn't have a name. It's originating from an AD in Portugal. During our conversation prior to the deal when I inquired about the origin of the watch - he said: "I don't buy from the general public - only on trade shows from ADs".

I guess he can argue a lot of things. But I asked him MANY times if the watch had ANY wear marks prior to sending him the money - and he reassured me that it doesn't. And also - the interpretation of "what NEW means" it's clearly explained on his own website as well as on Chrono24 of course. So legally, as far as NYC law is concerned - he cemented himself from all directions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg new_1.jpg (55.9 KB, 517 views)
File Type: jpg new_2.jpg (89.0 KB, 516 views)
File Type: jpg Policy.jpg (133.6 KB, 557 views)
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Old 12 October 2021, 06:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuel019 View Post
Jeez what a scumbag way of doing business.

Chrono24 acts with the same guidelines as eBay. He was obviously trying to avoid commissions to Chrono24. Iíd report to them as well. Maybe he gets banned from there.

I guess in the end it wouldíve been better to deal via Chrono24 versus offsite. The money you saved, now lost, you mightíve gotten a full refund if you had done so. Plus possibly having more costs if you seek legal action. Not rubbing salt. Itís terrible what the seller did. Wishing you the best of luck.
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
You're are absolutely right. With hindsight - Chrono24 would've yielded a smoother transaction in this case. So I guess that I do deserve some punishment for trusting the dealer :)

But I will not leave it at rest.
I don't live in NYC. When this goes to Small Claims Court there'll be flight, hotel expenses, a lost work day involved - so the claim would be MUCH higher than the 995$ he made on my back.
I wish people were more honest...but for those who aren't - I'll be there to make them think twice next time.
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Old 12 October 2021, 11:33 PM   #9
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Not cool, and thanks for the heads up. Another scumbag to avoid.
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Old 13 October 2021, 02:05 AM   #10
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Thanks for sharing. Good luck finding the right one.
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Old 13 October 2021, 04:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent_orange View Post
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
You're are absolutely right. With hindsight - Chrono24 would've yielded a smoother transaction in this case. So I guess that I do deserve some punishment for trusting the dealer :)

But I will not leave it at rest.
I don't live in NYC. When this goes to Small Claims Court there'll be flight, hotel expenses, a lost work day involved - so the claim would be MUCH higher than the 995$ he made on my back.
I wish people were more honest...but for those who aren't - I'll be there to make them think twice next time.

Well hopefully some good will come your way on the next one. FWIW there are a ton of great sellers here that I’ve been dealing with for over a decade. Maybe one of them will have something that interests you. Wishing you the best.
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Old 13 October 2021, 05:18 AM   #12
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Well hopefully some good will come your way on the next one. FWIW there are a ton of great sellers here that Iíve been dealing with for over a decade. Maybe one of them will have something that interests you. Wishing you the best.
Thanks! I'm still on the look for that Explorer...
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Old 13 October 2021, 09:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent_orange View Post
Hi,
Thanks for your feedback and support!
The card is dated to 2019 and doesn't have a name. It's originating from an AD in Portugal. During our conversation prior to the deal when I inquired about the origin of the watch - he said: "I don't buy from the general public - only on trade shows from ADs".

I guess he can argue a lot of things. But I asked him MANY times if the watch had ANY wear marks prior to sending him the money - and he reassured me that it doesn't. And also - the interpretation of "what NEW means" it's clearly explained on his own website as well as on Chrono24 of course. So legally, as far as NYC law is concerned - he cemented himself from all directions.
He clearly mis-represented this as new. He maybe sells new watches too, but whether he purchased this Explorer from someone else in the trade or Johnny Trailerpark - it became not "new" at the point of that transaction.

Was it also fully stickered, with all tags ?

I hope it works out for you and he gets what he deserves...
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Old 13 October 2021, 12:10 PM   #14
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I can't wait for you all to hear this, I have been waiting for my unworn condition 214270, also purchased from Ajlikeswatches......

This watch ALSO happens to be a 2019 with open papers......(see where I am going with this)

I have a feeling I am about to be the putz with your old watch when I get it tomorrow.
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Old 13 October 2021, 12:34 PM   #15
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Sorry to hear about this unfortunate experience. Whenever I search on Chrono24 for a particular watch and see that the seller is from NYC I immediately move on. No further explanation required.
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Old 13 October 2021, 01:23 PM   #16
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Old 13 October 2021, 01:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funforall88 View Post
I can't wait for you all to hear this, I have been waiting for my unworn condition 214270, also purchased from Ajlikeswatches......

This watch ALSO happens to be a 2019 with open papers......(see where I am going with this)

I have a feeling I am about to be the putz with your old watch when I get it tomorrow.
Not a bad gig if you can get by with it and have no scruples. Sell a 10k watch a few times and take it back with a 10% restock fee.
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Old 13 October 2021, 03:24 PM   #18
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Sorry to hear about your experience, I hope you'll be able to recoup the remaining amount.

Interesting way for this particular grey to make their 10% margin, terrible.
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Old 13 October 2021, 05:42 PM   #19
agent_orange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiparks View Post
He clearly mis-represented this as new. He maybe sells new watches too, but whether he purchased this Explorer from someone else in the trade or Johnny Trailerpark - it became not "new" at the point of that transaction.

Was it also fully stickered, with all tags ?

I hope it works out for you and he gets what he deserves...
No. It wasn't stickered. What really infuriated me when I called him after I got the watch is when he said:
"If you wanted something in better you needed a fully stickered watch"
This is AFTER I asked at least 5 times (before the purchase) if the watch has ANY blemishes / nicks / scratches
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Old 13 October 2021, 05:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funforall88 View Post
I can't wait for you all to hear this, I have been waiting for my unworn condition 214270, also purchased from Ajlikeswatches......

This watch ALSO happens to be a 2019 with open papers......(see where I am going with this)

I have a feeling I am about to be the putz with your old watch when I get it tomorrow.
WOW!!!
Thanks for posting!
The serial number is 9P0164W
Just look at the wear marks in the back of the case and the nicks on the right lower lug - straight giveaway.
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Old 13 October 2021, 06:29 PM   #21
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It seems this seller is making about $1000 each time he sells this watch.

Someone should buy it with Amex, cancel the transaction (not as described) and keep the watch.

That might waken the sellers ideas up?
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Old 13 October 2021, 09:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funforall88 View Post
I can't wait for you all to hear this, I have been waiting for my unworn condition 214270, also purchased from Ajlikeswatches......

This watch ALSO happens to be a 2019 with open papers......(see where I am going with this)

I have a feeling I am about to be the putz with your old watch when I get it tomorrow.
What route have you bought it via - Chrono 24 etc?
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Old 13 October 2021, 10:23 PM   #23
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What route have you bought it via - Chrono 24 etc?
Yup, I did the transaction through chrono24, I had no idea who this dealer was and wanted some recourse just in case.

I only came across this thread yesterday doing some late digging on the dealer, since my order was already delayed.

It's never NOT an adventure on C24
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Old 13 October 2021, 11:20 PM   #24
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Yup, I did the transaction through chrono24, I had no idea who this dealer was and wanted some recourse just in case.

I only came across this thread yesterday doing some late digging on the dealer, since my order was already delayed.

It's never NOT an adventure on C24
Sorry for not posting earlier...but good call going C24 with this one.
And who knows, you might like the watch. It's not in terrible condition - just can't be categorized as NEW. Not under C24 rules and not even under the dealers own policy.

Previously I got an offer to buy the same model in very similar condition (that was truthfully presented as - pre-owned) for 9550$ and I turned it down because I really wanted a NEW FLAWLESS piece - and he reassured me that IT WAS (look at the Whatsapp messages).
I hope you negotiated a good price and not the 11,995$ + Tax it was originally going for on C24.
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Old 14 October 2021, 05:49 AM   #25
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Yup, it's your old watch alright, I noticed a few other blemishes on it. Not too thrilled about it, plus given the history of it now being polished again and shipped off to me all within a week.
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Old 14 October 2021, 06:47 AM   #26
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Yup, it's your old watch alright, I noticed a few other blemishes on it. Not too thrilled about it, plus given the history of it now being polished again and shipped off to me all within a week.
Sorry to hear that.
At least complain to C24...they have all the proof they need in this post to take some action.
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Old 14 October 2021, 08:42 AM   #27
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Or file a claim with your credit card company used - they will do the battle for you.
I got sketched out of a deal with these guys....
sent an offer on ebay and they responded with a photo of a phone number to whatsapp

The convo was very vague and I decided to pass, thankfully it appears that I’ve dodged a bullet.
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Old 14 October 2021, 09:39 AM   #28
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Yup, it's your old watch alright, I noticed a few other blemishes on it. Not too thrilled about it, plus given the history of it now being polished again and shipped off to me all within a week.
Copy of this thread to your CC company, and C24, dispute the charge.
Eff this scumbag......
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Old 14 October 2021, 10:50 AM   #29
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We sold you the watch as new, it left our shop as new. I have a long history of selling on all the platforms and my reputation speaks for itself. You found us on our website and decided to deal directly which happens all the time. Many platforms charge restocking fees so nothing was illegal here.

I rent an office from Manhattan Buyers, they have nothing to do with this issue they shouldn’t be involved in this. Just because we are on the same floor doesn’t mean they have anything to do with this.
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:11 AM   #30
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