New rules for putting names on waitlists?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by pam66

i doubt it. the greys get their stock mainly from the ADs. and no AD in the UK has ever asked me a gas or electricity bill when i wanted to buy a PP.

i think he means that they have to know you. My AD was super vague on Patek availability until they got to know me. The American accent made me seem like a tourist. Once they knew i was with them for the long haul everything changed. Locals only at a lot of places just means existing clients and not people passing through, in my experience at least.

I waited and waited for my 5164A, a ridiculously long time. After that, the 5712 and 5524 came immediately after requesting one.

[pam66]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i think he means that they have to know you. My AD was super vague on Patek availability until they got to know me. The American accent made me seem like a tourist. Once they knew i was with them for the long haul everything changed.

yes that is true. they want some getting-to-know-the-customer. still, i sustain the greys get their stock from the ADs, not really from private flippers.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by pam66

yes that is true. they want some getting-to-know-the-customer. still, i sustain the greys get their stock from the ADs, not really from private flippers.

I agree with that. Some AD's care and some don't care where the watches end up. My AD actually makes a point to try their best to sell to people who will wear the watches and keep them. I always try to wear the watches i buy from them into the store post purchase and find excuses to go in (bracelet adjustments etc) to reinforce that i keep my watches. It helps for sure.

[bankreal]

Originally Posted by tng11

The chase is part of the fun for me. I could pay the grey price and have one in my hands tomorrow, but where is the fun in that? Nor do I want one without my name on the papers. It has given me plenty of opportunity to reflect on why I want this watch, and makes it all the much more likely it'll be a keeper once I get one.

What one of the dealers told me was that having a business card makes it less likely you are a flipper, as it shows you are employed in some industry other than watch flipping (it basically is a huge market in Hong Kong.) Even locals who don't have a business card because they may be retired or self employed get the brush off (my retired uncle told me one dealer said to him when he couldn't produce a business card was "how do I know you're not a watch flipper?"

The same dealer also told me that they will send my name over to the local distributor and check for previous purchases of the same references I requested to be waitlisted for. Any previous purchases of the same references would disqualify me from acquiring another one.

Whether this is all AD bunk or not, I have no problems with it as it does seem to have some logic to me in deterring flippers.

This is what many dealers have started doing in Hong Kong. Curbing flippers is understandable, but what Patek also needs to be equally vigilant about its retailers' practices too. And she is not doing enough is to ensure that its retailers are following the various rules that they have imposed over the years, namely cutting the plastic bag in front of their clients and not giving that to them as well as the cardboard box with the watch's specs in it, especially for their big dealers like Eldor*** in Hong Kong, who receives apparently the largest amount of stock (likely one of the largest worldwide) since they have a large number of high end and long time clients. I have friends who are Eldor***'s huge clients and have gotten away with getting their watches sealed and with boxes given to them over the years. What's worse is that the one lady sales (Alice) there who commands the largest number of clients carries a most obnoxious attitude and the boss keeps a blind eye on that. Her clients, even if the occasion client, would preferentially get hot items earlier than those of other sales, even if the latter's customers had purchased more items over the years.

I cannot go into the specifics for the concern of disclosing those customers involved, but there are customers who had been "preferentially" given more than one piece of items in large demand (e.g. 5131) in the past, and who was "caught" later for selling them by Patek, yet the only persons "punished" was the customers, who are not allowed to get any more limited edition items, yet Eldor*** continues their various of the above acts, which only makes PP look bad and customers frustrated. If Mr. Stern is reading this, I think he needs to be equally vigilant with its retailers' practices even though some of these like Eldor*** are one of its largest retailers world wide

[yoast]

Very true.
It's not only this AD that does this..

Just a few months ago, I was visiting a grey dealer in TST and he had a 5711 blue with papers dated the same day!

Originally Posted by bankreal

This is what many dealers have started doing in Hong Kong. Curbing flippers is understandable, but what Patek also needs to be equally vigilant about its retailers' practices too. And she is not doing enough is to ensure that its retailers are following the various rules that they have imposed over the years, namely cutting the plastic bag in front of their clients and not giving that to them as well as the cardboard box with the watch's specs in it, especially for their big dealers like Eldor*** in Hong Kong, who receives apparently the largest amount of stock (likely one of the largest worldwide) since they have a large number of high end and long time clients. I have friends who are Eldor***'s huge clients and have gotten away with getting their watches sealed and with boxes given to them over the years. What's worse is that the one lady sales (Alice) there who commands the largest number of clients carries a most obnoxious attitude and the boss keeps a blind eye on that. Her clients, even if the occasion client, would preferentially get hot items earlier than those of other sales, even if the latter's customers had purchased more items over the years.

I cannot go into the specifics for the concern of disclosing those customers involved, but there are customers who had been "preferentially" given more than one piece of items in large demand (e.g. 5131) in the past, and who was "caught" later for selling them by Patek, yet the only persons "punished" was the customers, who are not allowed to get any more limited edition items, yet Eldor*** continues their various of the above acts, which only makes PP look bad and customers frustrated. If Mr. Stern is reading this, I think he needs to be equally vigilant with its retailers' practices even though some of these like Eldor*** are one of its largest retailers world wide

[AK797]

Originally Posted by pam66

i doubt it. the greys get their stock mainly from the ADs. and no AD in the UK has ever asked me a gas or electricity bill when i wanted to buy a PP.

UK Rolex had the problem of ADs selling straight to greys but went hard after ADs and that practice has now largely stopped, but now private buyers are doing the same thing so ADs have had to make it tougher and so we have the many new rules. I suspect PP will and are doing the same.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by AK797

UK Rolex had the problem of ADs selling straight to greys but went hard after ADs and that practice has now largely stopped, but now private buyers are doing the same thing so ADs have had to make it tougher and so we have the many new rules. I suspect PP will and are doing the same.

One grey dealer I know has told me there are still plenty of ADs that sell to him directly. That includes PP ADs in the UK and Rolex ADs here in Canada. They give him first dibs on the hard to get SS PP references when he takes some of the hard to move pieces, and similarly, they give him in-demand Rolexes such as the SS SkyD, Hulk, BLNR when he takes a few hard to move Datejusts.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I think the OP observation and then the grey prices are somewhat related. If the distributer or Patek as seems to be the case are becoming more interested in "who" the watches are being sold to and are running their names before purchase (taking that decision away from the AD) then the logical result will be less going to grey dealers. With less grey stock, the existing grey prices go up which is what we are seeing. Sure grey's still have a lot of these watches but they do have less than before.

Its a catch 22. If more of these watches are actually going to people who will keep them which we all seem to want, the prices on the secondary market will continue to climb. Its the standard answer here to assume Patek is cutting production, but its equally likely that they are becoming more able to deliver these watches to people who will keep them giving the illusion of less being available because there are less being flipped.

Not necessarily. Part of the reason the greys can demand such a high price is because the wait time is so long. If part of the reason the wait time is so long is because the greys are getting x out of every y piece that comes in, then cutting them out will dramatically reduce the wait times, and as people start to hear that they'll have to spend less time on queue, that'd drive down the premiums on the grey market.

[hkbb8888]

I am not kidding, In mid of 2016, I bought my 5712/A from local HK dealer by walk-in. And there was a 5711 white dial also available but I did not pick. The only difference between walk in customer and waiting list customer was the price, waiting list customer can having a 10 % discount off the list price, the waiting period for a 5712/A was around 6-9 months and 18 months for 5711 blue dial.

Everything changed since the end of 2016, all local PP dealers refused to sell the hot models directly to walk in customer , they requested a name card and send the PP HK. The PP HK office choose the rightly buyer to sell (the dealer act only the middle man and no right to choose the buyer by themself), in order to avoid THAT customer to re-sell into the grey market, if they find out the watch ships into grey market, it is the problem of HK PP by choosing the wrongly buyer, not the dealer fault.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by hkbb8888

I am not kidding, In mid of 2016, I bought my 5712/A from local HK dealer by walk-in. And there was a 5711 white dial also available but I did not pick. The only difference between walk in customer and waiting list customer was the price, waiting list customer can having a 10 % discount off the list price, the waiting period for a 5712/A was around 6-9 months and 18 months for 5711 blue dial.

Everything changed since the end of 2016, all local PP dealers refused to sell the hot models directly to walk in customer , they requested a name card and send the PP HK. The PP HK office choose the rightly buyer to sell (the dealer act only the middle man and no right to choose the buyer by themself), in order to avoid THAT customer to re-sell into the grey market, if they find out the watch ships into grey market, it is the problem of HK PP by choosing the wrongly buyer, not the dealer fault.

I remember in early 2016 seeing a blue and white dial 5711 in the window of a certain AD on Nathan Road. Oh, how times have changed since then.

I wonder with PP HK now selecting buyers how it'll work with being on multiple waitlists.

[CKL1213]

soon you need to sit for an interview to buy a Patek

AD: Tell me why we should sell you a 5711?
AD: Tell me how you see yourself in 5 years time wearing a 5711?
AD: Tell me why you flip your Rolex and want to buy 5711?

[sensui]

Originally Posted by CKL1213

soon you need to sit for an interview to buy a Patek

AD: Tell me why we should sell you a 5711?
AD: Tell me how you see yourself in 5 years time wearing a 5711?
AD: Tell me why you flip your Rolex and want to buy 5711?

Lol......short of drawing blood...can totally see this happening. The Nautilus game makes the whole Daytona thing look tame.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by pam66

i doubt it. the greys get their stock mainly from the ADs. and no AD in the UK has ever asked me a gas or electricity bill when i wanted to buy a PP.

Yeah, while UK may have such rule, I still see plenty of watches coming out from UK.

[R!$]

Originally Posted by AK797

In UK we have the locals only rule to prevent flippers. I suspect PP and Rolex worldwide will roll out more and more pre-conditions to curb the rampant greys.

They have already begun to do so

[OH2004]

Patek can solve this problem by releasing 20 5711, 20 5712, 20 5990, and etc per AD per year. This would kill the gray dealers and the secondary price. Then the grey dealers will be less willing to stock up in the future for all watches.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by R!$

They have already begun to do so

Wasn't the hardest prediction I've ever made.

[R!$]

Sad... things have come to this

[Sam777]

Two points irritate me quite considerably.

1) on resizing the bracelet, I like to do this myself at home. I find the experience entertaining. I did not just fork out a lot on a lovely tool kit for me not to be able to do this. How does this even stop flippers? They'll just add on the links themselves or send it to a watchmaker.

2) how does enforcing the policy of "only the individual who registered interest may collect the watch" stop flippers? Do greys even allow their customers to pick up watches they've sold from any AD or salon? Does not make sense to me. It's just so easy to get around why bother? Genuinely, if you have a driver or perhaps work a quite hectic job and want to send a co-worker in your place you can't anymore? Lol... it's more the point that this does nothing to stop greys than my concern with the plight of the 1% not being able to send their drivers to pick up the watch, nevertheless the point stands.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Sam777

Two points irritate me quite considerably.

1) on resizing the bracelet, I like to do this myself at home. I find the experience entertaining. I did not just fork out a lot on a lovely tool kit for me not to be able to do this. How does this even stop flippers? They'll just add on the links themselves or send it to a watchmaker.

2) how does enforcing the policy of "only the individual who registered interest may collect the watch" stop flippers? Do greys even allow their customers to pick up watches they've sold from any AD or salon? Does not make sense to me. It's just so easy to get around why bother? Genuinely, if you have a driver or perhaps work a quite hectic job and want to send a co-worker in your place you can't anymore? Lol... it's more the point that this does nothing to stop greys than my concern with the plight of the 1% not being able to send their drivers to pick up the watch, nevertheless the point stands.

I'll give you points for having the balls to put this down in writing.

[grimani]

Originally Posted by Sam777

Two points irritate me quite considerably.

1) on resizing the bracelet, I like to do this myself at home. I find the experience entertaining. I did not just fork out a lot on a lovely tool kit for me not to be able to do this. How does this even stop flippers? They'll just add on the links themselves or send it to a watchmaker.

wasn’t forced to resize on a recent 5712 purchase. i tried it on, sales said it was too big and asked if i wanted to resize and i declined. no excuse necessary, they’ve since offered me other watches

[Sam Philip]

Originally Posted by AK797

In UK we have the locals only rule to prevent flippers. I suspect PP and Rolex worldwide will roll out more and more pre-conditions to curb the rampant greys.

I don't think all Patek ADs are following the locals only rule. My AD in Scotland and London Salon continue to offer watches to me.

[Sam777]

Originally Posted by grimani

wasn’t forced to resize on a recent 5712 purchase. i tried it on, sales said it was too big and asked if i wanted to resize and i declined. no excuse necessary, they’ve since offered me other watches

My AD does not subject me to such arbitrary rules either... thank God. I was speaking from OPs point of view.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Sam Philip

I don't think all Patek ADs are following the locals only rule. My AD in Scotland and London Salon continue to offer watches to me.

I was mainly referring to Rolex on the locals only rule back then, harder for Patek to implement as the number of buyers is far more limited in certain areas, so having a good track record is more important. Locals only is probably being used for new buyers tho.

[Sam Philip]

Originally Posted by AK797

I was mainly referring to Rolex on the locals only rule back then, harder for Patek to implement as the number of buyers is far more limited in certain areas, so having a good track record is more important. Locals only is probably being used for new buyers tho.

Certain ADs use the local only policy for new buyers asking for Nautilus or Aquanauts. However I'm sure they would happily sell a 5327 or a 5496 for a non local first time buyer

[ap1]

Originally Posted by AK797

I'll give you points for having the balls to put this down in writing.

[grimani]

Originally Posted by AK797

I was mainly referring to Rolex on the locals only rule back then, harder for Patek to implement as the number of buyers is far more limited in certain areas, so having a good track record is more important. Locals only is probably being used for new buyers tho.

plenty of rich locals everywhere!