New rules for putting names on waitlists?

[tng11]

In Hong Kong, it seems that most, if not all Patek ADs are still taking names for waitlists, but are employing a few new requirements to those who want to be put on the waitlist for any SS references.

It seems dealers are now demanding a business card from a reputable local company. Overseas cards are not accepted, so most tourists are out. If you can't provide a business card, I know a few dealers have outright told people that they will not put you on the waitlist, or will quote a very long wait time. As a subsidiary point, all dealers have also told me that they will no longer ship out of Hong Kong.

In addition, I was told that they will strictly adhere to the rule that all watches must be picked up by the same person whose name is on the waitlist, opened at the point of sale, papers filled out, and that they will not let you leave the shop without resizing the watch.

In the end, with an overseas business card (but speaking the local language), I had success with getting on the waitlist at all but one AD for a 5712/1A. The best quotation I got was a 1 year wait (the same dealer told a relative who did not have a business card the wait would be 7 years), and others were from 2-4 years.

[watchucallit]

The Resizing is ridiculous. What if you are buying for a gift... Graduation, anniversary etc.

[tamiya]

What if your business card said "Professional Watch Flipper & International Man of Leisure" ??!

Does that put you top of the queue?

[tyler1980]

seems weird in the execution. However in London at a lot of places its similar in that they want to cater to local and existing clients they already know for hard to get pieces. It makes sense from a business perspective, as they are the ones who are likely to be repeat customers.

Sorry your 5712 hunt has been so frustrating

My only data point i got from my AD was for my recent incoming of a hard to get piece was my watch had to be:
A. registered with Patek before I picked it up. I signed the card at delivery but the rest had already been submitted
B. paperwork was already filled out with my information and typed on my certificate of origin when it was shipped to the AD
C. because of A and B I paid for the watch before delivery and in full. It only took a week from order to delivery and I had a delivery date before I paid, but that was new for me.

This was all new as my previous purchases had not required this. I don't mind either way, but my AD said something about new requirements. So it would not surprise me if for waitlists since the watch is already spoken for that they will be allocated prior to getting to the AD from Patek. Not saying its the case, but its possible. I only have the one recent data point so its clearly not evidence of a trend. Maybe the business card is so they can contact you to pay when you are next up in the queue since it includes all your info?

[CKL1213]

Rich man problems, seriously earning that amount of money is hard enough and with that kind of money you still need to beg people to put your name and wait for 7 years and those who waited just 1 year is like miracle just happened.

I'm sure all this waiting game is the actual attraction to the brand as one can humble brag during gathering times especially with the in laws...

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

seems weird in the execution. However in London at a lot of places its similar in that they want to cater to local and existing clients they already know for hard to get pieces. It makes sense from a business perspective, as they are the ones who are likely to be repeat customers.

Sorry your 5712 hunt has been so frustrating

My only data point i got from my AD was for my recent incoming of a hard to get piece was my watch had to be:
A. registered with Patek before I picked it up. I signed the card at delivery but the rest had already been submitted
B. paperwork was already filled out with my information and typed on my certificate of origin when it was shipped to the AD
C. because of A and B I paid for the watch before delivery and in full. It only took a week from order to delivery and I had a delivery date before I paid, but that was new for me.

This was all new as my previous purchases had not required this. I don't mind either way, but my AD said something about new requirements. So it would not surprise me if for waitlists since the watch is already spoken for that they will be allocated prior to getting to the AD from Patek. Not saying its the case, but its possible. I only have the one recent data point so its clearly not evidence of a trend. Maybe the business card is so they can contact you to pay when you are next up in the queue since it includes all your info?

The chase is part of the fun for me. I could pay the grey price and have one in my hands tomorrow, but where is the fun in that? Nor do I want one without my name on the papers. It has given me plenty of opportunity to reflect on why I want this watch, and makes it all the much more likely it'll be a keeper once I get one.

What one of the dealers told me was that having a business card makes it less likely you are a flipper, as it shows you are employed in some industry other than watch flipping (it basically is a huge market in Hong Kong.) Even locals who don't have a business card because they may be retired or self employed get the brush off (my retired uncle told me one dealer said to him when he couldn't produce a business card was "how do I know you're not a watch flipper?"

The same dealer also told me that they will send my name over to the local distributor and check for previous purchases of the same references I requested to be waitlisted for. Any previous purchases of the same references would disqualify me from acquiring another one.

Whether this is all AD bunk or not, I have no problems with it as it does seem to have some logic to me in deterring flippers.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

The same dealer also told me that they will send my name over to the local distributor and check for previous purchases of the same references I requested to be waitlisted for. Any previous purchases of the same references would disqualify me from acquiring another one.

Whether this is all AD bunk or not, I have no problems with it as it does seem to have some logic to me in deterring flippers.

This I believe.

I got the distinct impression my 5524G was allocated to me for delivery via AD as opposed to being generically allocated to the AD (without a client already known) for sale to whoever they wanted without Patek (or Rhone in the UK) knowing first.

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by CKL1213

Rich man problems, seriously earning that amount of money is hard enough and with that kind of money you still need to beg people to put your name and wait for 7 years and those who waited just 1 year is like miracle just happened.

I'm sure all this waiting game is the actual attraction to the brand as one can humble brag during gathering times especially with the in laws...

The point is that SA sellers flood the market and PP doesn t like that i guess they insist to play according to their rules or don t play at all .Actually I consider as a nice move the factory protects its dealers on their markets .

[AK797]

In UK we have the locals only rule to prevent flippers. I suspect PP and Rolex worldwide will roll out more and more pre-conditions to curb the rampant greys.

[fidd]

I was at my AD (Singapore) yesterday and haven’t heard of such rule.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by tamiya

What if your business card said "Professional Watch Flipper & International Man of Leisure" ??!

Does that put you top of the queue?

International Man of Leisure? Yes, top of the list.

[jon_jon]

Interesting policy for HK. I assume it is only for SS Nautilus and SS Aquanaut. I doubt they have a list for Calatravas or Annual Calendars.

HK is such a huge market for the pre-owned watch industry. This policy probably helps the real customers with a chance at getting a popular watch, rather than the watches all going to the resellers.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

HK is such a huge market for the pre-owned watch industry. This policy probably helps the real customers with a chance at getting a popular watch, rather than the watches all going to the resellers.

This makes perfect sense to me, especially based on some of the resellers window displays I've see people post on the forum. Although frustrating, I think it's nice they're catering to the folks that actually want these watches vs. those looking to potentially flip for a profit.

Tom - I'm glad you were able to get yourself on the shorter wait list! My guess is it was harder there than in Toronto?

[CamSLC]

Good thing my AD had a 5711, I don't even have a business card....

[tng11]

Originally Posted by RW16610

This makes perfect sense to me, especially based on some of the resellers window displays I've see people post on the forum. Although frustrating, I think it's nice they're catering to the folks that actually want these watches vs. those looking to potentially flip for a profit.

Tom - I'm glad you were able to get yourself on the shorter wait list! My guess is it was harder there than in Toronto?

I've been told in general by all the ADs that their hope is to sell to end users who will wear the watch. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that 7 ADs (not counting the branches of the same retailers) all told me pretty much the same thing about requiring a business card and the other requirements. It seems likely it is a local distributor requirement at the moment.

I currently don't have any hopes to clear any of the waitlists I am on in Canada. It seems my best lead is the dealer that quoted a year as they are one of the oldest Patek dealers in HK, and when I was there it just so happened that there was a guy collecting his 5712/1A, and he was a first time Patek buyer according to him. It took maybe about 30 minutes of sweet talking the shop manager to get my name down.

Of course, if I do get the call, that means a 16 hour flight each way. The 5712 is a watch worth it to me though.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by tng11

I've been told in general by all the ADs that their hope is to sell to end users who will wear the watch. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that 7 ADs (not counting the branches of the same retailers) all told me pretty much the same thing about requiring a business card and the other requirements. It seems likely it is a local distributor requirement at the moment.

I currently don't have any hopes to clear any of the waitlists I am on in Canada. It seems my best lead is the dealer that quoted a year as they are one of the oldest Patek dealers in HK, and when I was there it just so happened that there was a guy collecting his 5712/1A, and he was a first time Patek buyer according to him. It took maybe about 30 minutes of sweet talking the shop manager to get my name down.

Of course, if I do get the call, that means a 16 hour flight each way. The 5712 is a watch worth it to me though.

Man, that sounds exciting! Well, at least for me because I won't be spending the 32 hour round trip journey on a plane The year should pass by relatively quickly, just enjoy what you've got or a coupe other purchases in the process to make it seem shorter Not a bit of doubt in my mind that this particular watch (or any Patek Philippe) is certainly worth it!

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by tng11

The chase is part of the fun for me. I could pay the grey price and have one in my hands tomorrow, but where is the fun in that? Nor do I want one without my name on the papers. It has given me plenty of opportunity to reflect on why I want this watch, and makes it all the much more likely it'll be a keeper once I get one.

The watch itself should be all that it takes to convince you that it's wanted.
If you need to rely on a bit of paper with your name printed on it, then you're in trouble, and buying the wrong luxury commodity!

[HAL330]

Originally Posted by PJ S

The watch itself should be all that it takes to convince you that it's wanted.
If you need to rely on a bit of paper with your name printed on it, then you're in trouble, and buying the wrong luxury commodity!

I disagree.. to be in the good graces of Patek Philippe & Co and have your name on the original paperwork is part of the experience of owning one of these unique works of art.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by HAL330

I disagree.. to be in the good graces of Patek Philippe & Co and have your name on the original paperwork is part of the experience of owning one of these unique works of art.

Exactly. If pre-owned was quite a bit cheaper then it would be less important, but that's not the case here.

[Vaxe]

This new policy is a bit pompous and silly. Just last year the 5712 was readily available AND discounted by ADs - I passed on one for 32k otd. Somehow the thought of begging a jewelry store to take my money doesn’t sit right, I’ll just wait for the hype to die, and if it doesn’t soon there’s plenty of nice stuff out there.

Originally Posted by tng11

I've been told in general by all the ADs that their hope is to sell to end users who will wear the watch. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that 7 ADs (not counting the branches of the same retailers) all told me pretty much the same thing about requiring a business card and the other requirements. It seems likely it is a local distributor requirement at the moment.

I currently don't have any hopes to clear any of the waitlists I am on in Canada. It seems my best lead is the dealer that quoted a year as they are one of the oldest Patek dealers in HK, and when I was there it just so happened that there was a guy collecting his 5712/1A, and he was a first time Patek buyer according to him. It took maybe about 30 minutes of sweet talking the shop manager to get my name down.

Of course, if I do get the call, that means a 16 hour flight each way. The 5712 is a watch worth it to me though.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

This new policy is a bit pompous and silly. Just last year the 5712 was readily available AND discounted by ADs - I passed on one for 32k otd. Somehow the thought of begging a jewelry store to take my money doesn’t sit right, I’ll just wait for the hype to die, and if it doesn’t soon there’s plenty of nice stuff out there.

Bitcoin is currently dipping, perhaps great opportunity for an entry point purchase. When I laid my 5711 Blue deposit in February, I had a chance to purchase a 5712 the next month in March, but at the time I thought $32k for a steel watch was outrageous, but here we are. I should have bought both. I could flip my 5711 for big profit that would essentially pay for the 5712 plus cash on top. That's how crazy this gray market is currently. Woulda Coulda Shoulda, it's all in the game.

[SpeedyTuomas]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

This new policy is a bit pompous and silly. Just last year the 5712 was readily available AND discounted by ADs - I passed on one for 32k otd. Somehow the thought of begging a jewelry store to take my money doesn’t sit right, I’ll just wait for the hype to die, and if it doesn’t soon there’s plenty of nice stuff out there.

Yes seems silly especially when ADs are selling watches to gray dealers..

[rudestew]

Its all gone a bit silly , just so glad i found the one

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by SpeedyTuomas

Yes seems silly especially when ADs are selling watches to gray dealers..

I wonder how much of this uptick is self-perpetuating between the greys and the ADs. The retail of the 5711 is, what, 25k? So if greys are buying them all from ADs at 30 knowing they can tighten supply that way and then command 40, everyone's winning except the day in, day out customer. Just hearing too many stories of ADs demanding above MSRP for hot pieces to not think that's going on as well.

[Vaxe]

I get it with the 116500 being a brand new reference with a new dial and bezel, and as a steel Daytona it's always commanded a premium at release and throughout its lifespan.

AP's 15202 Jumbo and Patek's Nautilus 5711 (and now even the 5712) are almost a DECADE old in its current iteration. They are great watches no doubt, but both could be purchased easily from ADs just last year, without the current waiting list game. If this isn't hype I dont know what else to call it. I know AP made the Jumbo boutique only and Patek also cut back, but what makes them suddenly $10K-$20K more desirable?

I agree with you guys, this is just playing into their game - whether it's the manufacturers, the dealers, or greys. Just speak with your wallet and don't buy in.

haha rant over

Originally Posted by Marciano490

I wonder how much of this uptick is self-perpetuating between the greys and the ADs. The retail of the 5711 is, what, 25k? So if greys are buying them all from ADs at 30 knowing they can tighten supply that way and then command 40, everyone's winning except the day in, day out customer. Just hearing too many stories of ADs demanding above MSRP for hot pieces to not think that's going on as well.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

I get it with the 116500 being a brand new reference with a new dial and bezel, and as a steel Daytona it's always commanded a premium at release and throughout its lifespan.

AP's 15202 Jumbo and Patek's Nautilus 5711 (and now even the 5712) are almost a DECADE old in its current iteration. They are great watches no doubt, but both could be purchased easily from ADs just last year, without the current waiting list game. If this isn't hype I dont know what else to call it. I know AP made the Jumbo boutique only and Patek also cut back, but what makes them suddenly $10K-$20K more desirable?

I agree with you guys, this is just playing into their game - whether it's the manufacturers, the dealers, or greys. Just speak with your wallet and don't buy in.

haha rant over

It's kind of funny living and working in Midtown Manhattan. I can walk the 3 total blocks from Tourneau to Wempe to Tiffany's - all authorized Patek dealers - and each will tell me it's a 5 year wait for a 5711.

Then, I can go walk down 47th between 5th and 6th and probably see 50 of 'em sitting in windows.

[GB-man]

Jumbo hasn’t really participated in this “rally.” I still see mint examples for 22 asking so only 2-3k higher than before.

Originally Posted by Vaxe

I get it with the 116500 being a brand new reference with a new dial and bezel, and as a steel Daytona it's always commanded a premium at release and throughout its lifespan.

AP's 15202 Jumbo and Patek's Nautilus 5711 (and now even the 5712) are almost a DECADE old in its current iteration. They are great watches no doubt, but both could be purchased easily from ADs just last year, without the current waiting list game. If this isn't hype I dont know what else to call it. I know AP made the Jumbo boutique only and Patek also cut back, but what makes them suddenly $10K-$20K more desirable?

I agree with you guys, this is just playing into their game - whether it's the manufacturers, the dealers, or greys. Just speak with your wallet and don't buy in.

haha rant over

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

I get it with the 116500 being a brand new reference with a new dial and bezel, and as a steel Daytona it's always commanded a premium at release and throughout its lifespan.

AP's 15202 Jumbo and Patek's Nautilus 5711 (and now even the 5712) are almost a DECADE old in its current iteration. They are great watches no doubt, but both could be purchased easily from ADs just last year, without the current waiting list game. If this isn't hype I dont know what else to call it. I know AP made the Jumbo boutique only and Patek also cut back, but what makes them suddenly $10K-$20K more desirable?

I agree with you guys, this is just playing into their game - whether it's the manufacturers, the dealers, or greys. Just speak with your wallet and don't buy in.

haha rant over

I think the OP observation and then the grey prices are somewhat related. If the distributer or Patek as seems to be the case are becoming more interested in "who" the watches are being sold to and are running their names before purchase (taking that decision away from the AD) then the logical result will be less going to grey dealers. With less grey stock, the existing grey prices go up which is what we are seeing. Sure grey's still have a lot of these watches but they do have less than before.

Its a catch 22. If more of these watches are actually going to people who will keep them which we all seem to want, the prices on the secondary market will continue to climb. Its the standard answer here to assume Patek is cutting production, but its equally likely that they are becoming more able to deliver these watches to people who will keep them giving the illusion of less being available because there are less being flipped.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

This new policy is a bit pompous and silly. Just last year the 5712 was readily available AND discounted by ADs - I passed on one for 32k otd. Somehow the thought of begging a jewelry store to take my money doesn’t sit right, I’ll just wait for the hype to die, and if it doesn’t soon there’s plenty of nice stuff out there.

I agree that it seems ridiculous that I have to jump through hoops to get someone to take 32K from me for a SS watch.

Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done about it in a very "Soup Nazi" like way if you don't want to play by the rules they're setting - "no watch for you!"

[pam66]

Originally Posted by AK797

In UK we have the locals only rule to prevent flippers. I suspect PP and Rolex worldwide will roll out more and more pre-conditions to curb the rampant greys.

i doubt it. the greys get their stock mainly from the ADs. and no AD in the UK has ever asked me a gas or electricity bill when i wanted to buy a PP.