A. Lange & Söhne - Why such depreciation?

[Gravity]

Lange produces some of my absolute favorite pieces and I still can't wrap my head around why they take such a hit on the secondary. Been debating a Datograph for many years now and even back years ago I found it shocking they could be had used for almost half retail. Now I'm loving the 405.035 even more and see them new cond used for over 30k under retail, yet most boutiques are sold out and just have the rose gold when I have checked. If it wasn't for such deep discounts, I'd probably be after the 405.034 Lumen which is just an absolute stunner imo and is definitely worth the extra $10-20k over the 405.035 retail even with a little premium but not double the current secondary 405.035 price.

Anyway, I was just curious why they take such a hit which is usually more indicative of a lesser brand.

[TJMike]

1. Little demand and there is an over-supply.
2. Overpriced. Two price rises in two years on a number of models made the situation worse.
3. Even boutiques offer substantial discounts, although this is changing.
4. It is a niche and lesser brand. Many people on message boards say they love Lange, but when push comes to shove they buy another brand.

[arcadelt]

Buy the watch you love lightly used for much less, then rejoice!

[mongrelnomoad]

I love Lange, and have put my money where my mouth is. ADs are open to negotiation, so negotiate.

Take advantage of the weakness in the brand's awareness (because it certainly isn't the weakness of the watches themselves, and at 5,000 a year I'd be surprised if there is really oversupply) to get yourself an horological bargain.

[AK797]

It's not just them, there are a ton of sport and particularly dress watch brands out there that I don't know how they stay operational with seemingly so few people ever in their stores, as there is just a finite number of watch enthusiasts, esp at the over £5k level, and obviously so many of them are going to the higher resale brands now which only perpetuates this vicious cycle. Throw in the huge move toward Iwatches and casualness and many of these brands will go under in the future, that is why Lange and others have started making sports watches.

[Frits1980]

People (in general) who want a nice watch but for who Rolex is to simple go Patek. Its what they know and what their friends know. Whats the point spending 50k on a Lange while nobody know what it is and how expensive it is.

I own a couple from both brands. Patek ill buy new. Lange used only. Got my mint Lange 1 for almost half list.

[benlee]

Actually, outside of AP/Rolex/Patek ( and maybe RM ), depreciation of 50% is the norm for most watch brands. Some are depreciated even more, like 50% from an already hefty 25 to 30% discount. The fact that Richemont sucks at marketing doesn't help and they have not been able to duplicate the hype of these 4 brands.

That said, Lange makes absolutely fabulous watches, especially the movement finishing. I have often wondered why I don't own one yet.

[Gravity]

Appreciate the input and at 50 or more off of retail they seem like a bargain. Been having a tough time finding a discounted Lumen though ;)

[ReturningSon]

Originally Posted by Gravity

Appreciate the input and at 50 or more off of retail they seem like a bargain. Been having a tough time finding a discounted Lumen though ;)

This brand took a substantial hit in its "early" years by dealers who were aggressively discounting the product before Lange's Richemont boutique network was set up. Reasons for the discount? It was a relatively unknown east German brand with little brand equity (a la rolex).

That set the standard so to speak and in order to entice buyers into the boutiques, similar discounts had to be matched and offered. Those days are gone though with Richemont really tightening up the reigns. Certain ALS references are already starting to climb on the secondary (slowly but surely), as the brand is becoming more popular especially since particular references from other brands are nonexistent.

Candy pieces like the Zeitwerk or Dato Lumen, goodluck finding them on the secondary. Really depends on what specific reference you are looking at and in what condition. Just my 2cents

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Gravity

Appreciate the input and at 50 or more off of retail they seem like a bargain. Been having a tough time finding a discounted Lumen though ;)

I don’t think you will get a Dato Lumen with any discount, only being sold by boutiques with a zero discount policy. Selling over new on secondary.

[AlyRba]

Agree with what @ReturningSon has said above.

I think people are thrown off by old Lange 1 reference, which looks exactly like the current reference, selling at $19-$20K and think that these are new lange watches selling for 50% off. A Lange AD will give you 10-15% off on a new Lange watch today. You will see additional 20% depreciation on the price you paid, not bad comparing to most brands. You should not be looking at the 35-40% discounted price of a used Lange watch and compare it to retail, not the correct comparison. Lange takes the same hit as Vacheron and JLC, not worse.

I know for a fact that Lange is tightening on discounts through ADs and Boutiques. In the long run, I see prices appreciating in the used market.

[Gravity]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I don’t think you will get a Dato Lumen with any discount, only being sold by boutiques with a zero discount policy. Selling over new on secondary.

Beautiful!

[cantdrive55]

Originally Posted by Frits1980

Whats the point spending 50k on a Lange while nobody know what it is and how expensive it is.

I think that is exactly the point of owning an expensive Lange. Very few people know what it is, or how expensive. But for those that do, we can be friends.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by cantdrive55

I think that is exactly the point of owning an expensive Lange. Very few people know what it is, or how expensive. But for those that do, we can be friends.

Totally. It’s such a pleasure when somebody clocks your Lange, and such a different experience from a Rolex, an AP or a (sport) Patek.

[jag32]

The depreciation on Lange is crazy. Similar Patek equivalents to their Lange counterparts don’t take a hit like this. Even less popular Patek references equal to Lange will take a modest $5k or 10k hit but nothing like Lange. It’s a shame because I love them, but I’m unwilling to buy one new if this continues to be the case and will go with FP Journe or Patek.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by jag32

The depreciation on Lange is crazy. Similar Patek equivalents to their Lange counterparts don’t take a hit like this. Even less popular Patek references equal to Lange will take a modest $5k or 10k hit but nothing like Lange. It’s a shame because I love them, but I’m unwilling to buy one new if this continues to be the case and will go with FP Journe or Patek.

I don’t think they perform any worse than most PP dress watches. Remember, in both cases, you’ll have got a discount. FPJ, same story except on the Blue.

[jag32]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

I don’t think they perform any worse than most PP dress watches. Remember, in both cases, you’ll have got a discount. FPJ, same story except on the Blue.

My local Lange AD will only do 5%. Not even enough to make up for sales tax...

Most PP dress watches hold their value relatively well except for ones without complications for the most part like the calatrava.

[AlyRba]

Originally Posted by jag32

My local Lange AD will only do 5%. Not even enough to make up for sales tax...

Most PP dress watches hold their value relatively well except for ones without complications for the most part like the calatrava.

Not sure about this. 5146, which retails for $40k+, can be had for $27-28k. PP PCs can be had for $55k~ when retail is $85k~. Again, I am assuming 15% discount on Lange and a smaller 5% on Patek. At the end, you are almost losing the same.

If you are interested in a Lange watch, I am happy to make an intro.

[jag32]

Originally Posted by AlyRba

Not sure about this. 5146, which retails for $40k+, can be had for $27-28k. PP PCs can be had for $55k~ when retail is $85k~. Again, I am assuming 15% discount on Lange and a smaller 5% on Patek. At the end, you are almost losing the same.

If you are interested in a Lange watch, I am happy to make an intro.

I am looking for a Lange Chrono in Rose Gold with a black dial.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by AlyRba

Not sure about this. 5146, which retails for $40k+, can be had for $27-28k. PP PCs can be had for $55k~ when retail is $85k~. Again, I am assuming 15% discount on Lange and a smaller 5% on Patek. At the end, you are almost losing the same.

If you are interested in a Lange watch, I am happy to make an intro.

I agree PP dress watches don’t hold value well either.

[Jay (Eire)]

I think the points made above get to the issue, be it the original heavy discounting and the expectations that carried forward and just the reality that depreciation on high end watches is very very high with some exceptions.

But you have the market data, you know where the prices are at. If you love the watch just go for it, and do so whichever way is best for you (used, new with discount etc).

For what it is worth I do think with the Boutiques being more tight on discounts and brand awareness (and acknowledgement of the quality of Lange) continuing to rise the used prices will begin to settle in and perhaps creep up a little.

The original Datograph, which I know one can’t compare as it’s no longer in production, has seen a reasonable increase in price over the last 3 or 4 years.


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[GoingPlaces]

I think the fact that these pieces take the hit they do has a lot to do with it. Regardless of "buy what sings to you" the hits can be quite substantial. A big difference between a 50K Lange and a 10K watch.

That being said, ALS is an amazing brand and belongs at the very top of the watch making world. For the true WIS, there are only a couple of comparables.

[glamorama]

I have a feeling that the typical Lange buyer buy to keep. There are relatively few for sale second hand in my observation. I believe they will pick up pre-owned as more and more start to appreciate the brand. I have one A. Lange and definitely not planing to sell and want to add down the line, but at these prices it cannot be an impulse purchase exactly.

What I like about Lange second hand is that they can restore the case pretty much to new as they use laser welding to fill dings rather than polish all the way down.

[myporsche]

Because Lange owners don't give a sh*t about depreciation, if you are already thinking about selling it before buying then you shouldn't buy a Lange IMHO. It's at the pinnacle of the watch game.

[ReturningSon]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Because Lange owners don't give a sh*t about depreciation, if you are already thinking about selling it before buying then you shouldn't buy a Lange IMHO. It's at the pinnacle of the watch game.

True. Best.of.the.best.

[jschmidtdmd]

I have a feeling that we are going to see this change over the next 4 years. The brand is cracking down hard on discounting and taking away AD statuses left and right. Couple that with the new SS sports series, and I think Lange is on track for a bright and recognizable future.

[vman]

Generous discounts are awesome for those of us on limited watch funds ;-) Love the brand. Will definitely buy more ;-)

[RXAPPP]

Great brand - a preowned Dato is in my future

[Gravity]

Originally Posted by RXAPPP

Great brand - a preowned Dato is in my future

With the almost 50% discount on the secondary, it's hard to even consider new imo.

[dchang81]

they discount at lange boutiques??