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10 February 2020, 12:56 AM | #1 |
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Best Rolex Dating Chart?
Hi, all.
I know it's not and may never be an exact science, but I see considerable variation in the years assigned to Rolex watch serial numbers in the various charts offered online. So, I'm wondering if there is any consensus about which one(s) are seen to be the most accurate. Thanks! |
10 February 2020, 01:19 AM | #2 |
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10 February 2020, 05:20 AM | #3 |
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Super, thanks!
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10 February 2020, 09:07 AM | #4 |
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Nice one actually
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16 February 2020, 01:36 PM | #5 |
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I prefer the becker time chart. https://beckertime.com/lookup-rolex-serial-by-year/
This one linked above doesn't make sense in a couple spots - like look at the spread from 1979-1980-1981...100k numbers advance in 1980 and then 7x that the following year...makes no sense - it's the same on the Bob's Watches site...doesnt make sense. And I have seen warranty cards with serials in the 67xxxxx with 1980 sale dates...tough for something made in 1981 to be sold in 1980. |
16 February 2020, 01:54 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Vintagerolexforum.com used to have a really comprehensive serial number project going with a chronological list of hundreds of examples of serials with papers and casebacks and so on, but I can't find it any more.
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16 February 2020, 02:27 PM | #7 | |
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16 February 2020, 03:05 PM | #8 | |
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I guess that this gets to is that, as evidenced by this discussion, there is no consensus on a "correct" chart. Would you agree something seems off about 79-80-81 on it? |
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16 February 2020, 03:28 PM | #9 |
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On this chart? https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=54362
I can’t agree with you, I’m afraid. It’s pretty much on the mark (given some leeway a little bit here and there, but otherwise as accurate as I’ve seen). As an example, search for 1680s and 16800s for 1979 1980 and 1981 on the HQMilton site and compare the serial numbers. They all fit in the parameters of this chart quite well. Cheers! |
16 February 2020, 11:26 PM | #10 | |
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I have looked extensively through listings on Chrono, HQ, other trusted vintage sellers etc, and yes there are plenty of 1680, 5513, etc in that range for which the sales slips align with those dates - the year of most interest to me is 1980 (birth year research) and while I have seen plenty of 67xxxxx serials with sales slips dated 81 and 82, that alone wouldn't justify that as the mfr date, would it? It's a science experiment (kind of) - you can't exactly prove that it's true definitively, but you CAN prove that it's untrue...sales slips for 67xxxxxx dated 1980 means it's impossible for the watch to have been manufactured in 1981 as that chart shows, correct? Truly not trying to seem difficult or argumentative, but logically speaking I cannot see a way that's possible unless the slips I have seen showing 1980 for that range are all counterfeited. Thoughts? |
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17 February 2020, 12:10 AM | #11 |
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I find the best of all is Oysteworld, you can reach it as a link through Double Red Sea Dweller site.
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17 February 2020, 05:31 AM | #12 | |
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17 February 2020, 09:32 AM | #13 | |
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Rolex numbers are allocated for a specific run of a specific model. Every year does not see all of those allocations actually made. If there is slow movement in a model, those numbers allocated for one year will be carried over to another year. If cases are stamped and not used, those too are warehoused until they are needed. Further, it is known that Rolex may have numbered model cases sequentially on paper, they didn't always manufacture complete watches sequentially.. In other words, the number 7 may have been completed before the number 2, and so on. Sometimes you simply need to think that this is the closest you're going to get, barring actual data from the Mother Ship.
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17 February 2020, 10:37 AM | #14 | |
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17 February 2020, 10:47 AM | #15 |
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To read our chart, 64xxxxx would be a 1980 mid-point number, with possibilities extending back to the 1979 mid, up to the 1981 mid.
There is always overlap. No chart can tell anybody with certainty that xxx to xxx was made in a certain year. Charts give an estimate, plus or minus a year or so, not actual production data.
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17 February 2020, 11:53 AM | #16 | |
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The date inside the caseback often gives a better guide. |
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17 February 2020, 11:58 AM | #17 | |
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What doesn't make sense is how could a watch that is manufactured, according to a chart, in 1981, have been sold in 1979? I think the end of the discussion is simply that these things aren't accurate and many smart and dedicated people have done their best. Which I can live with... |
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18 February 2020, 01:11 PM | #18 |
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Really this just is an attempt to date watches that lack the original paperwork that seems hard to find these days on a lot of "vintage" pieces. I'm still a neophyte at best but actively searching for a legit 1983 reference that it seems is near impossible to do with any accuracy based soley on the serial number. Is that a roughly accurate assessment?
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18 February 2020, 02:12 PM | #19 | |
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However, the charts were made based on that same paperwork, so they should become known data points to more refine dating, not argument points because they don't match published chart guesses.
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18 February 2020, 02:13 PM | #20 |
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But when different dealers advertisements regarding age and production differ, what to do?
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18 February 2020, 02:49 PM | #21 |
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I have a 16014 Datejust that has an 8.59 million serial number and most charts list it’s production year at 84-85 and my papers list it sold on 3/14/90, I also have the original credit card receipt. So it sat for a long time prior to being sold. It’s my oldest watch at the moment but I’ve dated all of my other watches and I’ve learned to just accept that it’s as close as I’ll ever know. I wish the warranty papers gave you it’s exact birthday but alas it doesn’t work that way.
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18 February 2020, 11:57 PM | #22 |
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19 February 2020, 12:55 AM | #23 | |
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19 February 2020, 01:43 AM | #24 | |
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So if I have papers showing a sale date of June 1975, I don't know whether the watch was manufactured in 1975 or 1974 or 1972...but I DO know that the watch was not manufactured in 1976, yes? So it seems to me that all of these charts would/should/could be living documents that evolve, and the only way they evolve is any time new papers come up showing a serial number and a date before the currently accepted date of manufacture, then the range must expand to include that new piece. It seems black and white to me on this point, but if I am missing something please do tell. |
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19 February 2020, 04:24 AM | #25 | |
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If you have a watch that you need to narrow down, you need to know each era characteristic. This is how dating was done before Internet Charts where even the lamest have been copied and pasted hundreds of times. In your example, a 1975 would likely not have a date code inside the case back, but if it was actually 1972, it would. Also, the dial will mark a certain known era. Some models have a dozen Mkx labels for each iteration. To make it even more confusing, TT and Gold models may have had a serial allocation one year, have not been used, and then actually manufactured years after a dating chart says. Some wrongly think that it has been sitting on display for those years, but charts only come close for the SS models. Precious metal models always lag by a year or more because they are not manufactured at the same rate. Some seem to think that there is a mark they can look at, like a milk carton, but watches have never been that transparent.
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19 February 2020, 04:48 AM | #26 |
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Another complication in trying to pin down exact dates/years with vintage Rolexes, is that parts left over from previous years could be used on newer watches. If there were old (new) cases available with earlier date stamps, the Rolex factory would use them up, of course.
Here's a confirmed legit case back for a DRSD stamped "I 72" but with a serial numbered case of 5.2 million, which would put the watch at around 1977 (last batch of DRSDs). So, here's a case back that's about five years older than the actual watch, based on the date stamp. If this "I 72" case back was on, say, a Submariner 5513 (without the engraved serial number, of course) and a case serial number of 5.2 million, a lot of folks would assume that the case back had been swapped because of the time difference shown on serial number charts. We shouldn't assume that would be the case. |
19 February 2020, 06:26 AM | #27 |
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Best Rolex Dating Chart?
Why would anyone presume casebacks were made in fewer numbers than the cases themselves? The fabrication processes would churn out as many of each methinks.
So the date inside a caseback wouldn’t be any help in dating a model methinks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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19 February 2020, 06:36 AM | #28 |
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Lots of interesting comments. Thanks, everyone.
I'm going to go by the recommended serial number chart. But I'm also going to add "circa" to whatever year I come up with. Thanks again. |
19 February 2020, 07:45 AM | #29 | |
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19 February 2020, 09:39 AM | #30 |
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Great thread.
Perhaps we could carbon-date each component. Just enjoy the watch. It's within a few years of where you think it's from. Believe it's a birth year piece if you want. |
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