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Old 23 January 2020, 01:12 AM   #1
The Monkey
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Tudor Oyster SubMariner 7923

Hi everyone, I have a question about the value of a Tudor Oyster SubMariner 7923.

A couple of years back, a Tudor Oyster Submariner 7923 sold on ebay for $100,000 and was then put up for re-sale at $350,000. The details are here:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...ubmariner-7923

In February, another one of these watches is coming up at auction in the UK but the auction site is giving a value of £25,000 - 35,000, which is quite a lot less than the one on ebay sold for.

This "new" watch is the same model number as the "ebay" watch and the two watches look the same in most respects, so I was very interested to find out the reason for the difference in price between the two, and was wondering if anyone knew?

There is an instagram picture of the "new" watch here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6OIoz4H...on_share_sheet


It has been pointed out to me on a non-Rolex/ Tudor forum that there are some differences between the two watches - e.g. the hands, and the colour of some of the writing on the face, but nobody has been able to explain if this would account for the difference in price between the 2 watches.

I therefore thought that a forum that specialises in these watches would be a better place to ask this question.

Many thanks in anticipation of any replies!
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Old 23 January 2020, 02:23 AM   #2
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Condition and rarity. One is basically NOS and the other is well worn. Still nice but not nearly the same. Configuration is also slightly different where the early one has red depth (some claim that is a prototype dial) that is super rare and the hands are also the earlier pencil style with rare seconds hand. The main difference is still the condition. People pay huge premiums for things in top, top, top condition.

Edit: Completely missed the dial that is heavily chipped around the bottom. That wont help the result. Still it is two very different pieces to begin with.
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Old 23 January 2020, 02:37 AM   #3
The Monkey
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Quote:
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Condition. One is basically NOS and the other is well worn and maybe touched up. Still nice but not nearly the same. Configuration is also slightly different. The main difference is still the condition. People pay huge premiums for things in top, top, top condition. The new one will still sell well above the high estimate but nowhere near 350.
Thank you for this, and I do take your point but I think I might have chosen some pictures which don't give a fair comparison regarding the condition.

This article shows pictures of the "ebay" watch when it was sold on ebay and you can see it's not in perfect condition (I don't know if the buyers managed to get the watch refurbished after they bought it?)

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tu...expensive-ever


While the "new" watch looks a lot better in this picture from the auction site than in the previous instagram picture I posted:

https://mailchi.mp/gardinerhoulgate....ntries-1206139
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Old 23 January 2020, 02:41 AM   #4
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Made an edit. The hq milton watch looked amazing on ebay. They just changed the crystal and took professional pictures.
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Old 23 January 2020, 02:44 AM   #5
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Vintage hype was at its peak in 2017.

This Heuer sold for $200,000 at around the same time. It’s normally a $50k watch.

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Old 23 January 2020, 02:51 AM   #6
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Deleted - got confused.

Last edited by The Monkey; 23 January 2020 at 03:05 AM.. Reason: I poosted nonsense!
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Old 23 January 2020, 02:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post
Actually, you noticing the chip on the "ebay" watch has just made me realise something.


I think that the first article I posted is incorrect - I don't think the $350,000 watch is the $100,000 watch from ebay.

Firstly, the chip isn't there on the $350,000 watch and secondly, the number at the bottom of the dial on the $350,00 watch is "30" and the number at the bottom of the dial on the $100,000 watch is 50.

I think I'm going to have to edit the original post and replace the article I linked to.

Sorry - my first post isn't going very well is it!??
The chipping/flaking is on the watch coming for sale in February. Are you in any way connected to that sale?



The 350’ watch is the same on both ebay and Hodinkee/HQ Milton.
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Old 23 January 2020, 03:06 AM   #8
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Sorry, I got confused with what I was looking at there - thanks for clarifying and also, many thanks for explaining the difference in price between the two watches. I didn't know that about the prototype dial. Your replies have been extremely helpful.
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Old 23 January 2020, 05:19 AM   #9
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Estimates are in general a joke nowadays. Put it up for sale for GBP30k and it will be sold in a flesh.
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Old 23 January 2020, 07:10 AM   #10
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Ebay / HQ watch was a lot nicer, better hyped, and in a better market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Condition and rarity. One is basically NOS and the other is well worn. Still nice but not nearly the same. Configuration is also slightly different where the early one has red depth (some claim that is a prototype dial) that is super rare and the hands are also the earlier pencil style with rare seconds hand. The main difference is still the condition. People pay huge premiums for things in top, top, top condition.

Edit: Completely missed the dial that is heavily chipped around the bottom. That wont help the result. Still it is two very different pieces to begin with.

^^^^ This

Quote:
Originally Posted by exador View Post
Vintage hype was at its peak in 2017.
And This ^^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
The chipping/flaking is on the watch coming for sale in February. Are you in any way connected to that sale?

The 350’ watch is the same on both ebay and Hodinkee/HQ Milton.
^^ Oh yeh - and this
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Old 23 January 2020, 04:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linesiders View Post
Ebay / HQ watch was a lot nicer, better hyped, and in a better market.




^^^^ This



And This ^^^^



^^ Oh yeh - and this
think the market has cooled down alot.

Just saw a Tudor 7928 with chapter ring sell for like $6K...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1964-Tud...UAAOSwbuddG2ER
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Old 23 January 2020, 05:24 PM   #12
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Yes it has but you also linked a terrible example. Look at the dial on it....
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Old 23 January 2020, 07:32 PM   #13
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Yes it has but you also linked a terrible example. Look at the dial on it....
Yes. That sale isn't representative of the market at all.
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Old 23 January 2020, 11:07 PM   #14
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think the market has cooled down alot.

Just saw a Tudor 7928 with chapter ring sell for like $6K...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1964-Tud...UAAOSwbuddG2ER
Not a good example. Overpolished case, kinda nasty dial, later insert. Pricewise - that is right where it should have been before the peak. Someone got a good deal though as the parts are worth more than the final price.
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Old 24 January 2020, 07:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayshere View Post
think the market has cooled down alot.



Just saw a Tudor 7928 with chapter ring sell for like $6K...



https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1964-Tud...UAAOSwbuddG2ER


Yikes that watch is in ROUGH condition.


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Old 24 January 2020, 07:46 AM   #16
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That is wicked cool.



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Old 24 January 2020, 10:02 AM   #17
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I don’t really understand why the question on the price difference? It’s an auction estimate, not the price it’s being sold for. All an estimate is good for is snagging people’s interest (a bit like this)
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Old 28 January 2020, 08:01 PM   #18
The Monkey
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Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Condition and rarity. One is basically NOS and the other is well worn. Still nice but not nearly the same. Configuration is also slightly different where the early one has red depth (some claim that is a prototype dial) that is super rare and the hands are also the earlier pencil style with rare seconds hand. The main difference is still the condition. People pay huge premiums for things in top, top, top condition.

Edit: Completely missed the dial that is heavily chipped around the bottom. That wont help the result. Still it is two very different pieces to begin with.
Of all the helpful replies on this forum, this is the one I found most enlightening and interesting, and I have been thinking about your comments regarding the dial and the hands a lot but without anything useful to add to the discussion.

But I have now seen some comments on this instagram page which could possibly pertain to these issues:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6OIoNVHzLE/


Apparently, the serial number on the "new" watch is the one immediately previous to the ebay watch. I have taken this to mean that the "new" watch was produced before the ebay watch. Would this then mean that the dial on the ebay watch (with the red depth) couldn't be a prototype as it wasn't made first?


Also, someone has pointed out that 7923s don't usually have the "Mercedes" hands and said that the "new" watch must be a 7922, but the auctioneer has confirmed that this is a 7923. So would this mean that the "new" watch actually has rare hands for a 7923?

Finally, if the "new" watch has hands from an earlier model, and was made before the watch with the red depth dial, is there any chance that this new watch could be a prototype?


Thanks!
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Old 19 February 2020, 01:15 PM   #19
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Yikes that watch is in ROUGH condition.


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Yeah thats a terrible example. Try again alwayshere
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Old 20 February 2020, 08:12 PM   #20
alwayshere
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Yeah thats a terrible example. Try again alwayshere


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Old 21 February 2020, 05:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exador View Post
Vintage hype was at its peak in 2017.

This Heuer sold for $200,000 at around the same time. It’s normally a $50k watch.
I think that might have been the peak of the vintage Heuer market, but not the vintage watch market as a whole.

That particular market went hyperbolic more than any other as well.
10 years ago I had a hard time selling Heuer's for $1,500 that are selling for $10,000-12,000 today. Ten years before that, they would run around $500. They were dogs, for years.

Point being, I think that your example is the most extreme and does not reflect other brands.

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Old 21 February 2020, 12:07 PM   #22
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i've had 3 7928s on ebay that i've been watching, just for the sale prices, and all three were at $14,000-$15000

rcvd notifications from ebay on all 3 that prices have dropped to $9500 to $10,500

pretty steep price drops, and all three seemed pretty decent
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Old 21 February 2020, 02:34 PM   #23
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i've had 3 7928s on ebay that i've been watching, just for the sale prices, and all three were at $14,000-$15000

rcvd notifications from ebay on all 3 that prices have dropped to $9500 to $10,500

pretty steep price drops, and all three seemed pretty decent
exactly. I'm not trying to stir the pot as I own vintages too but its definitely cooling down.
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Old 22 February 2020, 10:41 PM   #24
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7928s are complicated, because the date and dials can swing the values enormously. I find the later ones, like 66 or 67, are a bit slow compared to a clean 7021 or 7016 sf. The pre 63s get better money, bigger money, but it’s a smaller market. The snowflakes seem to still be very much in demand.
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Old 23 February 2020, 12:09 AM   #25
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The 7923 sold for 78k. Pretty strong considering the serious damage on the dial. It’s a rare beast though.
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Old 23 February 2020, 03:16 AM   #26
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78k is big bucks. When the eBay Watch was originally listed, I didn’t really understand the pencil hands and I was not sure if it was the correct bezel. I was in communication with the seller and offered him an eBay buyit now for $5,000. He turned me down and said he wanted to let it run. I guess I should have offered him $10k huh?
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