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Old 9 November 2018, 05:48 PM   #31
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Freshly Serviced 14060...low amplitude?

And this is NY or Dallas RSC or this was a RAD with an in house or outsource watchmaker. Very strange.


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Old 10 November 2018, 06:29 AM   #32
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This was serviced at the Dallas RSC. I spoke with the RSC and they asked me to take it into a local AD that has a Rolex trained tech to have it timed on the AD's timer free of charge so I'm going to do that this weekend. Like everyone else here, I'm curious to see what the printout says.
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Old 10 November 2018, 06:30 AM   #33
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Yes me too!


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Old 10 November 2018, 09:30 AM   #34
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It's not the timing (regulation) that's of concern, it's the low amplitude. This would suggest that it was not properly serviced, no amount of regulation will increase the amplitude to a significant degree. Cheers. -Norm

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This was serviced at the Dallas RSC. I spoke with the RSC and they asked me to take it into a local AD that has a Rolex trained tech to have it timed on the AD's timer free of charge so I'm going to do that this weekend. Like everyone else here, I'm curious to see what the printout says.
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Old 10 November 2018, 12:08 PM   #35
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Doesn't surprise me. I've seen incredible amounts of incompetence originating from RSC. Unless you 'know' someone at RSC your chances of getting something done right are low.

Send it back, but escalate your issue with a supervisor beforehand.
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Old 11 November 2018, 03:51 AM   #36
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I may have misunderstood your original comments. As I re-read, yes, checking the performance on a timegrapher by an AD is a good idea. My misunderstanding was confusing what you said for regulating. Sorry 'bout that. Cheers. -Norm


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This was serviced at the Dallas RSC. I spoke with the RSC and they asked me to take it into a local AD that has a Rolex trained tech to have it timed on the AD's timer free of charge so I'm going to do that this weekend. Like everyone else here, I'm curious to see what the printout says.
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Old 15 November 2018, 03:44 PM   #37
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OK, so I finally took it to my local AD and here are the results from a Witschi Chronoscope X1. I took out the Crown Right reading as the Witschi didn't give that readout.

-- HALF WIND READOUT --
DU: +4.0 / 236 / 0.0
DD: +3.3 / 247 / 0.0
CU: +4.9 / 202 / 0.3
CD: +7.3 / 209 / 0.0
CL: +8.8 / 200 / 0.4

-- FULL WIND READOUT --
DU: +5.4 / 216 / 0.1
DD: +4.1 / 227 / 0.0
CU: +2.6 / 185 / 0.3
CD: +9.2 / 196 / 0.0
CL: +7.1 / 186 / 0.0

So the watchmaker at this AD pointed out that it was very odd that the full wind readout gave a LOWER amplitude reading. So dunno what's happening inside but it's obviously not kosher.
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Old 15 November 2018, 04:24 PM   #38
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Very odd indeed and unacceptable after a service.
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Old 16 November 2018, 05:15 AM   #39
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Yikes, so it's confirmed.
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Old 16 November 2018, 05:15 AM   #40
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Where on we with Witschi vs Timegrapher comparison?
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Old 16 November 2018, 07:35 AM   #41
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Well to me, it seems like the Witschi essentially verified what the Timegrapher was getting. Accuracy acceptable, beat error good, amplitude way low. The important take away is that I would not have been able to know that RSC did an absolute shiet job w/o the affordable timegrapher.
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Old 16 November 2018, 11:38 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 116710er View Post
Well to me, it seems like the Witschi essentially verified what the Timegrapher was getting. Accuracy acceptable, beat error good, amplitude way low. The important take away is that I would not have been able to know that RSC did an absolute shiet job w/o the affordable timegrapher.
What troubleshooting has the watchmaker done besides putting it on the Witschi? Any conclusions yet?
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Old 16 November 2018, 11:50 AM   #43
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Well. If amplitude is higher at full wind then generally something either isn't perfectly round and/or perfectly flat. Could a bad barrel bushing, could be a stud (post), really many possible areas. Under fully pressure of a full wind, it can cause a part tilt. The barrel can rub on the bridge or the setting wheel can tilt ect.

Not that odd to see higher amplitude on half wind. It's an symptom.
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Old 16 November 2018, 05:22 PM   #44
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The watchmaker at the AD didn't do anything else. I had RSC tell me which local AD had a timer so that I could confirm what my timegrapher was telling me (local AD was closer than RSC). Now I'll be heading back down to RSC so that they can unf*ck their shoddy work.

I also discovered a spec of something on the seconds hand that wasn't there before. Just shoddy work by RSC all around.
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Old 16 November 2018, 07:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by 116710er View Post
Well to me, it seems like the Witschi essentially verified what the Timegrapher was getting. Accuracy acceptable, beat error good, amplitude way low. The important take away is that I would not have been able to know that RSC did an absolute shiet job w/o the affordable timegrapher.
Agree absolutely. If you're going to pay the costs required to service watches, then getting yout own Timegrapher for a fraction of that price to provide some check on the result is money very well spent. They may not be professional calibrated devices with aged crystals etc. but they aren't going to be orders of magnitude out - yours demonstrates that.

Out of interest, I've checked mine in the past by doing the full - 2 days at a time COSC timing checks (as close as I can and excluding the temperature one) and comparing against the machine's readings. Given that a 2 minute per position on a timing machine is only ever a "moment in time" check at a particular state of wind, and the fact that I have to eyeball the 2 day results (against time.com) they are still pretty darn close.

You have to wonder what proportion of watches go back to customers with unacceptable results that are never known about. In the case of yours, anyone unable to check it out would probably see the "on the wrist" performance and conclude a proper job had been done. The poor amplitude would be hidden.

I don't know whether Rolex service standards include issuing the timing results. I'm fairly sure that Omega standards do, but my limited experience of using their approved service agents is that they don't all do so. My non-authorised repairer of choice always does.
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Old 18 November 2018, 12:37 PM   #46
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Agree absolutely. If you're going to pay the costs required to service watches, then getting yout own Timegrapher for a fraction of that price to provide some check on the result is money very well spent. They may not be professional calibrated devices with aged crystals etc. but they aren't going to be orders of magnitude out - yours demonstrates that.

Out of interest, I've checked mine in the past by doing the full - 2 days at a time COSC timing checks (as close as I can and excluding the temperature one) and comparing against the machine's readings. Given that a 2 minute per position on a timing machine is only ever a "moment in time" check at a particular state of wind, and the fact that I have to eyeball the 2 day results (against time.com) they are still pretty darn close.

You have to wonder what proportion of watches go back to customers with unacceptable results that are never known about. In the case of yours, anyone unable to check it out would probably see the "on the wrist" performance and conclude a proper job had been done. The poor amplitude would be hidden.

I don't know whether Rolex service standards include issuing the timing results. I'm fairly sure that Omega standards do, but my limited experience of using their approved service agents is that they don't all do so. My non-authorised repairer of choice always does.
Rolex did not include a timing result with my service. I'm going to ask them for one once I get the 14060 back.

And you're absolutely right, w/o a timegrapher, people who get a service will never know if the watch was serviced correctly and I bet there's quite a few RSC sub-par jobs out there.

I also have a feeling that my watch was actually serviced at their Lititz, PA location which if I remember correctly, is where their school is. I'm wondering if they let a student service the watch instead of a certified CW21.
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Old 19 November 2018, 06:16 PM   #47
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The RWSC is never going to provide timing results when they return a watch from service, so we can probably stop hoping for that. That may be because they assume (incorrectly) that their customers won't know what the numbers mean. But my feeling is that they don't want folks reading the numbers and assuming that they mean more than they do, or that they're somehow "locked in" until the next service or something.

I can't help but notice, 116710'er, that you don't say anything about how the watch is actually performing on your wrist, or how long the watch's rundown time is. I'd say that's rather more important than anything the timing machine may be telling you. The 3035's don't always have blazingly high amplitude even when freshly overhauled, but still have great performance on the wrist and the expected 50 hours of power reserve.

All of that said, I would love to know how the RWSC customer service folks would respond to a customer calling to say something along the lines of "well, the watch seems to be running ok and all, but my timing machine says it has low amplitude!!" How would they handle that?
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Old 19 November 2018, 06:28 PM   #48
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I'm not convinced that the poor amplitude would be "hidden" very long. If the amplitude was that bad, you wouldn't have very good power reserve--definitely not the 50 hours or so that you would expect from a properly serviced 3035. Having a timing machine can definitely help you to see problems faster, but I do think 116710er's issues would have revealed themselves sooner rather than later regardless.

Rolex has never included timing results with serviced watches, perhaps because they assume (incorrectly) that folks wouldn't know what the numbers mean...but maybe because they don't want people to think that the watch is somehow "locked into" those numbers for the next 5-7 years. or something.

it's easy to see where your watch was serviced--simply have a glance at the document labeled "retail summary" and it will have the address of the service center, be it Dallas or Lititz. In Rolex's defense, I can tell you that, although the Service Center and school in Lititz are in the same building, they are kept quite separate. The chances that a student got within sniffing distance of your watch are zero.

regardless, these timing results are a bummer.
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Old 19 November 2018, 06:36 PM   #49
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Ha! i have to laugh at my own newbie bumbling. I wrote a response to this thread based on the first page of the thread (not knowing there was a second page) and then lost it somehow, then wrote a response to the second page! so i don't know which of my posts will see the light of day.

*sigh* Still mastering this fancy-pants "computer" thingamajig....
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Old 19 November 2018, 10:32 PM   #50
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Ha! i have to laugh at my own newbie bumbling. I wrote a response to this thread based on the first page of the thread (not knowing there was a second page) and then lost it somehow, then wrote a response to the second page! so i don't know which of my posts will see the light of day.

*sigh* Still mastering this fancy-pants "computer" thingamajig....
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Old Yesterday, 05:28 PM   #51
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Here's the update. Local RSC verified the findings of the watch being well under spec. Confirmed that Lititz did the service but they're not sure where it went sideways. I suppose something could have happened during shipping but who knows. They are going to have it re-serviced at Lititz again and my local RSC is going to run it on their timer when it comes back before they pass it off to me to confirm that it's all good.

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I can't help but notice, 116710'er, that you don't say anything about how the watch is actually performing on your wrist, or how long the watch's rundown time is. I'd say that's rather more important than anything the timing machine may be telling you. The 3035's don't always have blazingly high amplitude even when freshly overhauled, but still have great performance on the wrist and the expected 50 hours of power reserve.
I didn't do a rundown test nor a on-the-wrist timing test. To be honest, after the timegrapher reading, I didn't think that was relevant because it was clear that something wasn't right. How that manifested wasn't really a concern as I wanted it serviced correctly first. Once I get it back and confirm that it's running properly, I will definitely do both tests.

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it's easy to see where your watch was serviced--simply have a glance at the document labeled "retail summary" and it will have the address of the service center, be it Dallas or Lititz.
I only received a printed paid invoice. Rolex literally gives you no information beyond the bare bone basics.


Since we have some real techs here, let me ask you guys a question. So I had this watch evaluated by independent watch service center (before sending it to RSC) who said the third wheel and seconds hand pinion needed to be replaced. If these parts were near EOL or already failing to some degree, would this cause the low amplitude problem?
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