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Old 12 January 2020, 11:44 PM   #31
athom
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Originally Posted by TimeLord2 View Post
Check out the link Clay posted or just search the titles for this thread "How to tell if a watch has been restored by laser welding". It can be done quickly and inexpensively. On another note very seriously considering this for my GMT.
But does the dealer will let you doing that on the watch before you buy it ?
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Old 13 January 2020, 01:21 AM   #32
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Actually “rat rods” are about as far from original as you can get. They have been chopped, welded, pieced together from multiple cars, etc.
I think you are referring to original survivor cars and barn finds, definitely not rat rods.
Yes sublovin, very true. They are "ratty" looking cars - hence the name.
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Old 13 January 2020, 07:47 AM   #33
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The vintage market is in a world of trouble in the next 20 years with laser welding. Imagine having a 5512 laser welded now, and wearing it for the next 20 years. Itís going to be extremely difficult to tell if not impossible.


X rays show welding
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Old 13 January 2020, 10:30 AM   #34
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X rays show welding
And who'll have the means to X-ray a prospective watch...? Surely not me!
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Old 14 January 2020, 01:56 AM   #35
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Re-cut chamfers are vastly becoming the new 'polished lugs' in a detrimental sense; These re-cut watches will do very poorly on the vintage market in 5-10 years as people will clamor for 'honest watches'.
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Old 14 January 2020, 04:44 AM   #36
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Re-cut chamfers are vastly becoming the new 'polished lugs' in a detrimental sense; These re-cut watches will do very poorly on the vintage market in 5-10 years as people will clamor for 'honest watches'.
"Will do very poorly". Could you please explain?
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Old 14 January 2020, 07:41 AM   #37
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So that's how they do that

I think appearance is always valued and mint, unrestored does and should continue to command a large premium over a good to fair unrestored piece. That said, honest representation of restoration work will be critical to those who are open to pieces that arenít in untouched condition.


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Old 14 January 2020, 08:46 AM   #38
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Re-cut chamfers are vastly becoming the new 'polished lugs' in a detrimental sense; These re-cut watches will do very poorly on the vintage market in 5-10 years as people will clamor for 'honest watches'.
Sorry interesting points but much different than my perspective. I prefer the use of the term "refinished" to both "polishing" and "recut".

Watchmakers have been refinishing cases for many decades now - the only difference between then and now is modern technology which makes for a more professionally refinished case when compared to the old technology from decades ago.

If a vintage watch was refinished poorly in the past, I see no issues with having a case properly redone now that modern technology is much more readily available to correct an improperly refinished case from a previous service.
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Old 15 January 2020, 02:41 AM   #39
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this will suffer from the same issues as say ... retouching or repairing a master painting, or repairing a Gold or Silver age comic book

the decision then will be up to the buyer

I would definitely go for laser weld repair on the inside caseback and caseback seat (on the case) ... this is where pitting mostly occurs on these vintage stainless cases ... and is a weak point of water and moisture intrusion.

laser welding overly polished and dinged up lugs, or dented up end link marks on the underside of a case ... these repairs are left up to personal preference

I personally would like to see a newly refurbished case, with a new crystal ... sporting an all original dial, insert and hand set. The crown and crown tube will def need to be replaced on any service. Living in a hot and humid city ... I can go from 90+ degrees with 90% humidity outdoors ... into a 70 degree air conditioned room ... talk about temperature change of a case and humidity getting inside.

I mean ... this is all assuming that you are wearing this watch frequently ... even if you rotate it with others.

the fly in the ointment are the few dishonest sellers out there ... or maybe a buyer that gets duped and then tries to resell the watch years later ... only to encounter that he never had a truly original condition case

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Sorry interesting points but much different than my perspective. I prefer the use of the term "refinished" to both "polishing" and "recut".

Watchmakers have been refinishing cases for many decades now - the only difference between then and now is modern technology which makes for a more professionally refinished case when compared to the old technology from decades ago.

If a vintage watch was refinished poorly in the past, I see no issues with having a case properly redone now that modern technology is much more readily available to correct an improperly refinished case from a previous service.
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Old 15 January 2020, 02:57 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
Sorry interesting points but much different than my perspective. I prefer the use of the term "refinished" to both "polishing" and "recut".



Watchmakers have been refinishing cases for many decades now - the only difference between then and now is modern technology which makes for a more professionally refinished case when compared to the old technology from decades ago.



If a vintage watch was refinished poorly in the past, I see no issues with having a case properly redone now that modern technology is much more readily available to correct an improperly refinished case from a previous service.


This...could not agree with you more J.P.


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Old 15 January 2020, 03:47 AM   #41
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Couldn't agree more.
Agreed. And this is happening now. Unscrupulous people are offering watches as "NOS" or "unpolished" after having performed this treatment on them. I don't want to pay a premium for a watch like that. This is just one more tool in the toolbox for people to scam others.

I think this practice also potentially dilutes the value of actual NOS/unpolished watches, which are rare but out there, and command and deserve a strong premium as having survived for decades without losing their original attributes.

As always, buy the seller, and if a watch seems too good to be true, pass. Personally, my preference is for the "survivors," watches that haven't been polished but bear the marks indicative of their age. I love finding vintage watches with deep chamfers littered with minor dings and scratches. To me, it's character and tells a bit of the story of the watch's life.
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Old 15 January 2020, 06:18 AM   #42
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Here is an example of a repair on my 5508 from 1958 with a cracked case.
Personally I wouldn't like to have a brand new watch with super sharp edges, but I prefer the look of a 60 year hold pieces.

Before
IMG_7380.jpg

IMG_7378 2.jpg

After
IMG_3466.jpg

IMG_3468.JPG

IMG_3467.jpg
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Old 15 January 2020, 06:35 AM   #43
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I should clarify my comment about this tech and refine my statement to the arena of vintage sales.
As evidenced, this tech is great if you have a case that is cracked or otherwise unusable, you can use this to have a functional watch.
I do feel that purist collectors will avoid putting watches that have been altered in this fashion in their collections.
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Old 15 January 2020, 06:43 AM   #44
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Here is an example of a repair on my 5508 from 1958 with a cracked case.
Personally I wouldn't like to have a brand new watch with super sharp edges, but I prefer the look of a 60 year hold pieces.

Before
Wow what happened here?!
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Old 15 January 2020, 07:07 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by dhknola View Post
I should clarify my comment about this tech and refine my statement to the arena of vintage sales.
As evidenced, this tech is great if you have a case that is cracked or otherwise unusable, you can use this to have a functional watch.
I do feel that purist collectors will avoid putting watches that have been altered in this fashion in their collections.


I agree that itís nice to have for fixing damage that otherwise would render a watch unwearable, especially if there is sentimental value. That said, I personally would not buy a piece that had been repaired this way as a collector.


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Old 15 January 2020, 07:17 AM   #46
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I had the lugs refinished on my 5513 by RolliWorks and couldn't be happier. I'm 70 and enjoy wearing my watch every day. When I die my daughter will inherit it and there is a 90% chance she will pawn it for $1,000 within six months regarding if I tell her what it's worth. She'd lose all the box and papers anyway. I'm sort of OCD and like having things pristine. Until I came to TRF I would have been the first person to have RSC replace anything they possibly could to make the watch look new. A shiny new bezel insert is nicer than a ratty scratched one. I can't worry about what the next person thinks.
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Old 15 January 2020, 07:25 AM   #47
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I had the lugs refinished on my 5513 by RolliWorks and couldn't be happier. I'm 70 and enjoy wearing my watch every day. When I die my daughter will inherit it and there is a 90% chance she will pawn it for $1,000 within six months regarding if I tell her what it's worth. She'd lose all the box and papers anyway. I'm sort of OCD and like having things pristine. Until I came to TRF I would have been the first person to have RSC replace anything they possibly could to make the watch look new. A shiny new bezel insert is nicer than a ratty scratched one. I can't worry about what the next person thinks.
1. I hope it's many moon until your daughter has the ability to prove you wrong and at least puts it up on ebay to achieve fair market value!
2. I am 38 and it's funny, I can not stand new watches; they feel so sterile compared to their vintage brethren, different strokes for different folks
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Old 15 January 2020, 07:38 AM   #48
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Wow what happened here?!
I just step on it when I lost control of my armored tank...

Kidding... honestly I don't know, I bought it 20 years ago out of ebay and was cheap, at that time I had no idea about all the details of the Vintage Rolex, now as a collector I would not buy something like that
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Old 15 January 2020, 08:38 AM   #49
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I just step on it when I lost control of my armored tank...

Kidding... honestly I don't know, I bought it 20 years ago out of ebay and was cheap, at that time I had no idea about all the details of the Vintage Rolex, now as a collector I would not buy something like that
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Old 15 January 2020, 10:30 AM   #50
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I just step on it when I lost control of my armored tank...

Kidding... honestly I don't know, I bought it 20 years ago out of ebay and was cheap, at that time I had no idea about all the details of the Vintage Rolex, now as a collector I would not buy something like that
Goodness me. How on earth would you crack a steel case?? Never seen that. I can only think that someone screwed the caseback in too far and stretched the case...
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Old 16 January 2020, 09:15 AM   #51
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Hold on!! I'll give her $1100 and provide it a great home down south.

It's this same concern I have with my son ... I do not think he appreciates watches as much as I do or his grandfather does. And I have an OCD issue as well when it comes to my watches and music equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlovda View Post
I had the lugs refinished on my 5513 by RolliWorks and couldn't be happier. I'm 70 and enjoy wearing my watch every day. When I die my daughter will inherit it and there is a 90% chance she will pawn it for $1,000 within six months regarding if I tell her what it's worth. She'd lose all the box and papers anyway. I'm sort of OCD and like having things pristine. Until I came to TRF I would have been the first person to have RSC replace anything they possibly could to make the watch look new. A shiny new bezel insert is nicer than a ratty scratched one. I can't worry about what the next person thinks.
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