Porsche 964

[Jay (Eire)]

Anyone here own, or owned recently, one of these?

I’d be very interested in hearing ownership experience, running costs/maintenance costs, pros/cons versus other older 911s.

I know some of you will be more capable than others in terms of doing work yourselves, I neither have the space or skill set to tool myself and so I’m particularly interested to here from others like me.

Thanks in advance.

(PS If anyone wants to trade a 964 for a watch, or maybe watches, let me know!)



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[Chewbacca]

More a looker than a mover.

Not bad on maintenance.

Heavy and solid.

Keep an eye on the rear end. Most owners neglected maintenance there.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

More a looker than a mover.

Not bad on maintenance.

Heavy and solid.

Keep an eye on the rear end. Most owners neglected maintenance there.

The “looker” factor is a big part of this. Want an older car, and the 964 seems to be a good place to focus as it’s not too old and it’s way better looking than the 993.

Anything specific on the rear end?


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[timedate]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

The “looker” factor is a big part of this. Want an older car, and the 964 seems to be a good place to focus as it’s not too old and it’s way better looking than the 993.

Anything specific on the rear end?


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i went down the 'old porsche road' my advice, dont bother, its a constant money pit, the 'specialists' just rip you off mercilessly, 964's leak oil, after all they are nearly 30 years old.

[Keadog]

Go to Rennlist for more information than you'll ever want.
I had a 930 cab, an '87 911 and two 993s. Never had a 964 but my partner did. He wasn't wild about it, but not really a car guy anyhow.
Big thing for me was the 993s ('95-98) was the first series that had reasonably functional AC.
And none of the air cooled cars are inexpensive, even before your mechanic gets into things to make it perfect.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by timedate

its a constant money pit, the 'specialists' just rip you off mercilessly, 964's leak oil, after all they are nearly 30 years old.

This is the crux of it for me. The leaking seems guaranteed but what I’ve not figured out is (a) how bad can it be assuming the car was resealed properly, (b) practically what is the impact day to day, (c) is it something that’ll likely need regular ongoing attention and if so how much $$$ does one assume that care will take.

At a similar price point (assuming lowish mileage for the 964) one can also have a relatively recent 911. I guess ideally one would have “loads of money” and could just get a Singer.


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[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by Keadog

Go to Rennlist for more information than you'll ever want.
I had a 930 cab, an '87 911 and two 993s. Never had a 964 but my partner did. He wasn't wild about it, but not really a car guy anyhow.
Big thing for me was the 993s ('95-98) was the first series that had reasonably functional AC.
And none of the air cooled cars are inexpensive, even before your mechanic gets into things to make it perfect.

I’ve been lurking on Rennlist for several months. I’m picking up some info, but there seems to be far more mechanics on Rennlist than there are watchmakers on TRF. A lot of the information is beyond me.

Re you 993s, aside from the air con, is there anything else which would make the 993 a better car than the 964 for a part time enthusiast?


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[locutus49]

Newer cars are fast, 964's FEEL fast.

[Vibroverb]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Anyone here own, or owned recently, one of these?

I’d be very interested in hearing ownership experience, running costs/maintenance costs, pros/cons versus other older 911s.

I know some of you will be more capable than others in terms of doing work yourselves, I neither have the space or skill set to tool myself and so I’m particularly interested to here from others like me.

I bought mine before the dramatic price rise....in 2011 or so. 993 was the hot one then, nobody wanted 964s.
I
It sounds like you aren’t so interested in the mechanical side of things...but a lot depends on what you can afford to pay out up front to get a fully sorted car and how you will use it.

Mine had a leak - they all do, but mine was bad. I spent 5k on a rebuild that didn’t wholly fix the problem. It also depends on how far you want to go in making one perfect....you can easily spend more on a 964 than on something more recent.

Do you have your eye on a specific car, or are you enquiringly in general?

In that position now I’d look instead at an odd colour 996 or 996 GT 3, it 997 depends on your budget.

[Keadog]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

I’ve been lurking on Rennlist for several months. I’m picking up some info, but there seems to be far more mechanics on Rennlist than there are watchmakers on TRF. A lot of the information is beyond me.

Re you 993s, aside from the air con, is there anything else which would make the 993 a better car than the 964 for a part time enthusiast?


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The 993 was "The pinnacle of air cooled engine production". Or something like that. I never owned a 964, but the 993 was far more refined than my '87, as well as significantly faster. '87 Carreras had around 200HP. The '95 was rated at around 270 and the '96-98s around 280. All the air cooled cars look tiny next to modern variants.
Singer uses 964s as donors for his cars, which hasn't helped bargain pricing.
If you aren't dead set on a 20+ year old car, you might consider a 997.2 (2009-2012) if you can find one you like. Water cooled but hydraulic steering and some feel "more visceral" than the 991s, whatever that means.
I was dead set against a "modern" one, then I got soft and used to excellent AC, ventilated seats and a much faster car. Funny, I drove a couple 997.2s and wasn't that impressed but liked the 991s right away.
The 997s and early 991s may be nearing the bottom of their depreciation curves, but you're still going to pay a premium for an air cooled car, even if things have softened a bit.
You can also follow trends on Bring a Trailer. They have a lot of Porsches auctioned there.

[996marty]

I used to own one I always wanted an air cooled Porsche and at the time nobody wanted a 964 how times have changed.Im pretty sure most of them leak oil from somewhere mine did but that didn’t bother me one bit,A great car to own and drive plus they look superb.After all the positive comments you’re looking at a car that would be nearly 30 years old but most have been looked after,I sold mine and went to the dark side a water cooled Porsche (996) and to drive the two the 996 drives so much better.But if it’s a 964 you want go for it you’ll love it good luck with the search.

[996marty]

517BC8EA-7B99-4916-B353-491D37408726.jpeg

[timedate]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

This is the crux of it for me. The leaking seems guaranteed but what I’ve not figured out is (a) how bad can it be assuming the car was resealed properly, (b) practically what is the impact day to day, (c) is it something that’ll likely need regular ongoing attention and if so how much $$$ does one assume that care will take.

At a similar price point (assuming lowish mileage for the 964) one can also have a relatively recent 911. I guess ideally one would have “loads of money” and could just get a Singer.


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An air cooled 911 is great, but you need to fix it yourself, people will tell you they know what Is wrong with it, when they dont, to shaft you on the 'repair'

Most regular garages can work on them, they are quite basic, so dont fall into the 'specialists can only fix it mentality'

I found it was quite a stressful thing owning one, it is great, but you feel like you are on your nerves a lot of the time,

And then there is rust, they rust like any other car, especially in the uk.

If you really want one, buy the very best you can afford, from a private enthusiast, and buy from a salt free zone.

[Vibroverb]

Old v new

My old 964 and the 997 I replaced it with. Very very different cars - you have to be totally committed to the expense and time needed to keep a 964 in good order. And as others have said a 991 makes the 997 seem basic in comparison.

What does it mean day to day? I used to drive the 964 to London for work, but I wouldn't do it regularly. I have another car for that. With a later one you can happily drive anywhere without worrying about something going wrong. Yes the 964s are mechanically simple but unless it's had a ground up restoration, there is always something that's 30 years old and needs replacing.

If I was you I would be saving up for a GT3 if you want that mechanical feel in a modern format

[ILuvSubs]

Try dropping John (username: "Porsche") a PM. I know he owns a 964 and you may be able to pick his brain.

[chsu74]

Jay,

PM me since you are in NYC. I have a 964 and 993Turbo. The 964 is slow and feel 993 is a better value at the moment.

My 964 fell in my lap several months ago. Have a circle of air cooled nut case friends help you find the right one and sort it out without paying a mechanic’s vacation home mortgage.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by ILuvSubs

Try dropping John (username: "Porsche") a PM. I know he owns a 964 and you may be able to pick his brain.

Thanks, good call.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by chsu74

Jay,

PM me since you are in NYC. I have a 964 and 993Turbo. The 964 is slow and feel 993 is a better value at the moment.

My 964 fell in my lap several months ago. Have a circle of air cooled nut case friends help you find the right one and sort it out without paying a mechanic’s vacation home mortgage.

Will do, definitely in need of some honest guidance.

[Jay (Eire)]

[QUOTE=Vibroverb;9889442]Old v new

Beauties, both.

This is big question, old versus new. Something is dragging me towards old but I need the confidence that it’s doable. It won’t be a daily car, but I still want to be able to drive it when I want. And if I go old then I’m leaning towards the best shape one I can find.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by timedate

An air cooled 911 is great, but you need to fix it yourself, people will tell you they know what Is wrong with it, when they dont, to shaft you on the 'repair'

Most regular garages can work on them, they are quite basic, so dont fall into the 'specialists can only fix it mentality'

I found it was quite a stressful thing owning one, it is great, but you feel like you are on your nerves a lot of the time,

And then there is rust, they rust like any other car, especially in the uk.

If you really want one, buy the very best you can afford, from a private enthusiast, and buy from a salt free zone.

It’s the stressful part which makes me hesitate. Appreciate the colour.

[Johnnymiz]

@Jay (Eire).. i am with you. i would REALLY like an aircooled 911...or even a 914 would be great. i keep drooling over them, but every time i get serious, further inquiry reveals something like "well maintained, $37,000 in receipts", and it gives me pause. rust scares me, and pretty much every vehicle made before 1985 has hidden cancer (i have had a bunch of classics vehicles, so i know, even though you cant see it, it is there).
and unless it's a turbo, until you get to the 993, no 911 is really faster, nor do any come close to the handling of my 08 boxster. so, i end up keeping the boxster and never buying and aircooled. but i definitely feel the need to have one. if only the damned 987 wasnt such an awesome car......
that being said, you should think about water cooled.... if theyve been well maintained, anything after 2007 is pretty much as reliable as a corolla. my 987 certainly has been.

[Sleepy996]

Owned a 964 for 3 years. Had a blast my wife drove it half the time. Prices are a little inflated on them as they are the hot 911 right now and also Singer uses them as donor cars so it keeps the market sort of clean. Just make sure you get a PPI done before purchasing so you know your not getting a total mess. GL

[chsu74]

Originally Posted by Johnnymiz

anything after 2007 is pretty much as reliable as a corolla. my 987 certainly has been.

The M96 motor is not one to own. 09 and newer with 9A1 motor is my recommendation.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Re you 993s, aside from the air con, is there anything else which would make the 993 a better car than the 964 for a part time enthusiast?

I'll try not to get too verbose. I've owned both. My first Porsche was a 964, and I sold it to a friend. It is slow by today's standards, but makes really cool noises and looks the bit. You really need to be able to DIY basic maintenance and repairs, or as others noted, it will eat you up. My friend that bought it from me had issues that cost her thousands to resolve, ended up being a bad distributor or belt or something like that, (it's got two) a common issue with these.

The 993 is evolutionarily better, but has a stupid alarm/inhibitor system that constantly annoyed me. They are more difficult to maintain.

Given a choice right now, I'd pick a 964. I think the 964 and 993 markets are stupid expensive and if it were simply a matter of buying a nice 911 for a toy, it would be a 997S. The 997 though, will likely continue to depreciate a bit more. The 964 and 993 may not depreciate as much, but are more likely to have expensive repairs.

HTH

[timedate]

try an sc, they were going to be the last air-cooled and porsche wanted a fitting end,

they rev high and are quick off the mark, but look for rust, or buy from california, also head studs are an issue, but the engines go on and on once corrected.

[Johnnymiz]

Originally Posted by chsu74

The M96 motor is not one to own. 09 and newer with 9A1 motor is my recommendation.

@chsu74, they changed the IMS bearing design in mid 2006, creating the M97 motor.
the 07 and 08 M97 motors have an extremely low, almost non-existent, IMS failure rate.
i have 60k miles on 2008 with ZERO issues....hence, the corolla reference.
09 and newer cost considerably more

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by m j b

You really need to be able to DIY basic maintenance and repairs, or as others noted, it will eat you up.

I think the 964 and 993 markets are stupid expensive and if it were simply a matter of buying a nice 911 for a toy, it would be a 997S. The 997 though, will likely continue to depreciate a bit more. The 964 and 993 may not depreciate as much, but are more likely to have expensive repairs.

HTH

The two recurring themes from the many people I’ve spoken with.

DIY, this is what gives me pause, I neither have the skill (although it could be acquired) or the space to do this. Maybe I’m overestimating what might be needed though, when you say DIY what are you really talking about. Is it something which can be done with limited tools, on the side of the street, or are we talking needing a proper garage and tool set up?

Price. A lot of advice has been to hold off, the market is too hot. What is the consensus in terms of how much over valued this market might be now?

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by Johnnymiz

@Jay (Eire).. i am with you. i would REALLY like an aircooled 911...or even a 914 would be great. i keep drooling over them, but every time i get serious, further inquiry reveals something like "well maintained, $37,000 in receipts", and it gives me pause. rust scares me, and pretty much every vehicle made before 1985 has hidden cancer (i have had a bunch of classics vehicles, so i know, even though you cant see it, it is there).
and unless it's a turbo, until you get to the 993, no 911 is really faster, nor do any come close to the handling of my 08 boxster. so, i end up keeping the boxster and never buying and aircooled. but i definitely feel the need to have one. if only the damned 987 wasnt such an awesome car......
that being said, you should think about water cooled.... if theyve been well maintained, anything after 2007 is pretty much as reliable as a corolla. my 987 certainly has been.

I’m stuck in the middle for sure, and have been looking at and talking to people about both older (964) and new (2012 onwards). It may be, for me right now, going modern is the best idea.

[chsu74]

Originally Posted by Johnnymiz

@chsu74, they changed the IMS bearing design in mid 2006, creating the M97 motor.

the 07 and 08 M97 motors have an extremely low, almost non-existent, IMS failure rate.

i have 60k miles on 2008 with ZERO issues....hence, the corolla reference.

09 and newer cost considerably more

You can pick up an 09 Boxster for $20K and new interior. Depreciation will be minimal because of all the 08 and older supply with potential IMS hanging over its head. Spending an extra $6-7K to insure a potential $20K engine replacement while owning a newer car is a no brainer.

[chsu74]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

The two recurring themes from the many people I’ve spoken with.



DIY, this is what gives me pause, I neither have the skill (although it could be acquired) or the space to do this. Maybe I’m overestimating what might be needed though, when you say DIY what are you really talking about. Is it something which can be done with limited tools, on the side of the street, or are we talking needing a proper garage and tool set up?



Price. A lot of advice has been to hold off, the market is too hot. What is the consensus in terms of how much over valued this market might be now?

993 and 964s are reliable when fully sorted. You end up with little things like parts that time out or wear out but getting stranded on the side of the road will be rare unless its belts or fuel pump. Problems will be AC/heat/switches which are not cheap as parts but very DIYable..