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Old 3 April 2018, 04:01 AM   #1
christianj
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Credit Card points optimization - What do you carry and use?

I've been a die hard credit card and frequent flyer points junkie for years. A recent comment in the bespoke wallet thread on the AMEX Blue card made me wonder if others on TRF are into points as well and what cards they carry and use. It makes my skin crawl when I am behind someone at the store and they use card XYZ to pay for their items when I know they can do so much better with another card.

Anyone else into points and what do you carry and use? Here are mine:

Chase Sapphire Reserve - All travel and restaurant charges at 3 Ultimate Rewards points per $1

AMEX Hilton Honors Ascend Card - Groceries and Gas at 6 HH points per $1 - Card gets me HH Gold good for free breakfast when I travel and some other benefits.

Chase Freedom or AMEX Every Day Preferred - all regular spend outside of the bonus categories listed above...either 1.5 Ultimate Rewards or 1.5 AMEX Membership Rewards points per $1 - I will use either the Freedom or the AMEX EDP based on which points I want to accumulate - I used to exclusively use my Starwood AMEX for these charges but with too many points and the takeover by Marriott I am leery of adding too many points to my balance

Why no cash back cards? I feel I get a better return using points for nice hotels and first or business class flights than I would if I got the cash back.
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Old 3 April 2018, 04:03 AM   #2
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I just got BOA travel rewards card. It is the first rewards card I have gotten and intended to use for that purpose. Got 20,000 bonus points in the beginning and looking forward to using points for travel. Cash back option is there, but you don't get as much as if you redeem for travel.
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Old 3 April 2018, 04:16 AM   #3
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I use the AMEX British Airways Premium Plus Credit Card. We fly 3/4 times a year so we get a decent chuck of miles from that and our everyday spending. Free flights once a year due to a companion voucher. Good stuff! I also hate people who don’t make their money work for them via use of a rewards credit card. Crazy!
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Old 3 April 2018, 04:19 AM   #4
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I'm opposite of you, I only have cards that are completely free, no yearly fee, no costs whatsoever, but also no bonus points then.
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Old 3 April 2018, 04:56 AM   #5
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I'm opposite of you, I only have cards that are completely free, no yearly fee, no costs whatsoever, but also no bonus points then.
Same here. I think I save more money on the CC than points would save on purchases.
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Old 3 April 2018, 05:02 AM   #6
christianj
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Same here. I think I save more money on the CC than points would save on purchases.
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I'm opposite of you, I only have cards that are completely free, no yearly fee, no costs whatsoever, but also no bonus points then.
The thing is that most of these cards actually pay for themselves in the end.

With the Hilton AMEX you get Hilton Honors Gold which give you free breakfast. At an annual fee of $95 for the card I get that back after 3-4 stays. If it's two people staying you can get it back even quicker.

The Chase Sapphire Reserve has a hefty $450 annual fee but you get back $300 in travel credits when you charge travel on the card so essentially that gets you down to $150. The $150 for me is covered because you get unlimited access to the Priority Pass Lounge access while traveling as well as other benefits including a credit towards the fee of TSA Pre-Check or Global Entry.
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Old 3 April 2018, 05:06 AM   #7
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The thing is that most of these cards actually pay for themselves in the end.

With the Hilton AMEX you get Hilton Honors Gold which give you free breakfast. At an annual fee of $95 for the card I get that back after 3-4 stays. If it's two people staying you can get it back even quicker.

The Chase Sapphire Reserve has a hefty $450 annual fee but you get back $300 in travel credits when you charge travel on the card so essentially that gets you down to $150. The $150 for me is covered because you get unlimited access to the Priority Pass Lounge access while traveling as well as other benefits including a credit to the fee of TSA Pre-Check or Global Entry.
I choose hotels that have free breakfast. And no frills credit cards with low interest, no fees, and no hidden costs. In the long run, you can’t make money on points. It’s a fools game (no offense).
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Old 3 April 2018, 05:06 AM   #8
Wesley Crusher
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I use a Chase Sapphire Reserve for travel and dining (3x points) and a Chase Freedom for everything else (2x points).

The Saphire is something like $450 per year, but you get $300 in travel credits annually, bringing the cost down to $150. All of the other perks definitely offset the $150 per year. The Freedom card doesn’t have an annual fee.

With the Sapphire Reserve, all points are worth 50% more when used for travel. Chase also allows you to transfer points between cards at no cost so I transfer all of my Freedom points to my Sapphire Reserve card. I only redeem my points for travel and it has worked out very well.
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Old 3 April 2018, 05:49 AM   #9
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If you use the perks and take full advantage of the credits and discounts, travel cards with fees can easily pay for themselves. However if you don't travel regularly then many of the fees end up in the CC companies coffers without any quid pro quo.
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Old 3 April 2018, 05:55 AM   #10
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For years used AMEX almost exclusively for everything. When Coscto changed, we changed. I still have my AMEX, but I am using other reward cards now. Costco Citi Visa (no annual fee) for Costco and gas, and a BOA Alaska Airlines for everything else. Recurring payments set up on the Alaska card. Already took two trips for two this year on miles and one coming up on the annual "companion" ticket. I think it is $95 a year, but we travel enough that is pays for itself. Never carry balances, but use it as much as possible for the miles. Been using it for a couple years now and pretty happy with the card and Alaska in general. Plus you get free checked bags and some other perks. I did not travel enough last year to keep my elite status with Alaska so the card us useful for the bags.
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Old 3 April 2018, 06:07 AM   #11
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I’m another vote for the Chase Sapphire Reserve. I generally agree that you don’t want to pay for a credit card. However, the CSP is an exception. It definitely pays for itself in benefits and points, which equals real dollars. If I could only carry one card, this would be the one.
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Old 3 April 2018, 06:13 AM   #12
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Amex platinum/chase sapphire reserve the cards pay for themselves as I travel almost once a week so the fees really aren’t an issue for me.
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Old 3 April 2018, 06:30 AM   #13
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I rotate between 4 cards to receive an average of 4-5% cash back on most purchases. It adds up fast with 3 kids. AE gives 6% back on groceries
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Old 3 April 2018, 06:33 AM   #14
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AMEX Platinum w/ waived annual fee for active duty military

I also use the Southwest Visa Card.
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Old 3 April 2018, 06:35 AM   #15
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I've been wanting to pick up a good travel card to force me to travel a bit and see the CSR brought up a lot. The yearly fee does scare me, but those travel credits are good. I wonder if it's worth it for me.

I currently just use 2% cash back cards for basically everything. I was thinking about upgrading my Amex Blue ED to Preferred, as I regularly do a few hundred in cash back every year, especially with those grocery trips.
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Old 3 April 2018, 06:44 AM   #16
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Chase Sapphire Reserve - 3 points per dollar on dining and travel
Chase Freedom Unlimited - 1.5 points per dollar on all purchases
Chase Freedom - 5 points per dollar in bonus categories

All points from the Freedom cards can be transferred to the Sapphire Reserve for 50% bonus value towards travel.

Maybe I could do a bit better but having 3 Chase ultimate rewards cards keeps it super simple.
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Old 3 April 2018, 06:50 AM   #17
christianj
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I've been wanting to pick up a good travel card to force me to travel a bit and see the CSR brought up a lot. The yearly fee does scare me, but those travel credits are good. I wonder if it's worth it for me.
CSR is a great card IF you travel and dine out a lot AND can take advantage of the benefits of the card. ($300 credit, lounge access, etc.) If you can't take advantage of all those, I might look at the Chase Sapphire Preferred card which is free the first year and $95 after that. It earns less but might make sense for you. For someone that travels a lot the CSR works out better for essentially $65 a year difference. I would also decide on which airline and hotel chain you want to use the most during your travels and look at the product offered by them.
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Old 3 April 2018, 07:11 AM   #18
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1 amex. dont believe in credit or care for points.

more for fraud protection. its their money not mine.
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Old 3 April 2018, 07:38 AM   #19
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Heavily use my Amex Platinum and Chase Sapphire Reserve.

Chase Sapphire:
$300 calendar year travel credit reduces annual fee to $150. Love it for primary rental car insurance, trip protection, luggage delay/loss etc. Got the card during the 100k points promo. Blew through the 100k + accumulate points of 1.5 years this year for a 2 week trip through SEA with 8 flights in the region and a RT flight to and from LAX to Shanghai for two people.
Chase Sapphire concierge service: Useless

Amex Platinum:
I get incredible value from this card. Uber and airline credits, 4th night free, free breakfasts, upgrades, and $100 dining/resort credit in Fine resorts and hotels, good targeted offers (love the twice-a-year Allen Edmonds purchase credit). I call Amex every year before my anniversary and usually get a nice chunk of points for staying on as a customer. Amex Centurion Lounges + Amex lounge access + priority pass (not a huge fan of the latter but the first two are amazing). Access to some nice lounges with just the Platinum card, e.g. Lufthansa Senator lounge in Munich. Love having Aeoroplan as a redemption partner to get Star Alliance flights. Great concierge service, has gotten me tables day of at hip restaurants in and around LA when restaurant said they were fully committed, including Nobu in Malibu.
They also dealt with a Hotel in Vietnam that was infested with bed bugs that we discovered after our initial room inspection... Hotel refused to give us a refund when we demanded to leave and be reimbursed. We walked and Amex dealt with the travel website we had booked it from.

I use both cards as business expense cards and rack up points nicely. I'm not sure our household spend would get us anywhere in terms of points but the perks essentially pay for the cards so getting points on top is a nice perk.
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Old 3 April 2018, 07:42 AM   #20
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I choose hotels that have free breakfast. And no frills credit cards with low interest, no fees, and no hidden costs. In the long run, you can’t make money on points. It’s a fools game (no offense).
Completely wrong. I make five figures per year on cash back credit cards and points. It costs me very little in yearly fees...I think $79.

The fools game is paying credit card interest.
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Old 3 April 2018, 07:42 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by christianj View Post
I've been a die hard credit card and frequent flyer points junkie for years. A recent comment in the bespoke wallet thread on the AMEX Blue card made me wonder if others on TRF are into points as well and what cards they carry and use. It makes my skin crawl when I am behind someone at the store and they use card XYZ to pay for their items when I know they can do so much better with another card.
At stores I pay cash because I like closure. Does that do anything to your skin?
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Old 3 April 2018, 07:48 AM   #22
ct.matt
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Same here. I think I save more money on the CC than points would save on purchases.
No offense but you are grossly mistaken. E.g. Point to Mile redemption offers incredible value in flights. This Friday I'm flying on a one-way Lufthansa business class ticket from Europe to LAX. I paid 70,000 miles for the ticket + around $100 in taxes and fees. The ticket would cost $4095 on Google flights.

January I booked two RT flights from LAX to Shanghai for a total of 90k points.

A more every-day example, my Amex Blue Cash Preferred gets me 6% cash back on grocery store expenses and 3% at gas stations. The annual fee is $95 but I get about $2k in cash back every year.
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Old 3 April 2018, 08:03 AM   #23
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BOA cash rewards
Discover rewards
AMEX blue preferred
AMEX gold points
Well Fargo cash back
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Old 3 April 2018, 08:04 AM   #24
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I have a basic 2% cash back Capital One card. Use it to purchase everything more as a layer of protection. Usually use the cash back at the end of the year for a nice present for myself.
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Old 3 April 2018, 08:29 AM   #25
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Completely wrong. I make five figures per year on cash back credit cards and points. It costs me very little in yearly fees...I think $79.

The fools game is paying credit card interest.
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No offense but you are grossly mistaken. E.g. Point to Mile redemption offers incredible value in flights. This Friday I'm flying on a one-way Lufthansa business class ticket from Europe to LAX. I paid 70,000 miles for the ticket + around $100 in taxes and fees. The ticket would cost $4095 on Google flights.

January I booked two RT flights from LAX to Shanghai for a total of 90k points.

A more every-day example, my Amex Blue Cash Preferred gets me 6% cash back on grocery store expenses and 3% at gas stations. The annual fee is $95 but I get about $2k in cash back every year.
It’s not free. Somebody is paying for it.
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Old 3 April 2018, 08:37 AM   #26
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I choose hotels that have free breakfast. And no frills credit cards with low interest, no fees, and no hidden costs. In the long run, you can’t make money on points. It’s a fools game (no offense).


How did you come to that conclusion?

My CSR card is the only card I have with an annual fee and it is $450. They reimburse you for the first $300 worth of travel expenses annually bring the fee down to $150. Last year I earned at least enough points to cover at least $1500 worth of travel. How is that a fools game? In my opinion NOT using credit cards to your advantage is like leaving free money on the table.
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Old 3 April 2018, 08:46 AM   #27
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It’s not free. Somebody is paying for it.
I'm still confused by your post. I pay $550 and $450 annual fees for each of the premium cards, respectively. I pay for the cards and I'm well aware they're not cheap but I derive a ton of utility from both and come out well ahead + get access to really cool/free stuff (first crack at concert tickets or getting a free night, breakfast for two, an upgrade, and $100 to blow on drinks or food at a 5-star hotel is saving $$$).
I don't know if I'd ever bothered with TSA Global Entry had it not been for the credit these cards give you toward it. Now I save an incredible amount of time going through immigration and customs... no lines, ever, and have never not gotten TSA Pre Check.

You do have to make an active effort of 1) Knowing what you can get and 2) making sure you take advantage of it. Otherwise it won't be worth it to you.

PS: My significant other wasn't able to get a Priority Pass on her partner card.. some system glitch according to Amex. Every time she was at the airport, Amex comped us $100 (this happened 3-4 times)
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Old 3 April 2018, 09:06 AM   #28
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I'm still confused by your post. I pay $550 and $450 annual fees for each of the premium cards, respectively. I pay for the cards and I'm well aware they're not cheap but I derive a ton of utility from both and come out well ahead + get access to really cool/free stuff (first crack at concert tickets or getting a free night, breakfast for two, an upgrade, and $100 to blow on drinks or food at a 5-star hotel is saving $$$).
I don't know if I'd ever bothered with TSA Global Entry had it not been for the credit these cards give you toward it. Now I save an incredible amount of time going through immigration and customs... no lines, ever, and have never not gotten TSA Pre Check.

You do have to make an active effort of 1) Knowing what you can get and 2) making sure you take advantage of it. Otherwise it won't be worth it to you.

PS: My significant other wasn't able to get a Priority Pass on her partner card.. some system glitch according to Amex. Every time she was at the airport, Amex comped us $100 (this happened 3-4 times)
The programs are designed to get you to spend more chasing points. The system is built for them to make more money. Do you think they are a charity?

I always ask for the cash price at local stores. I usually get a discount. Big ticket items can be a pretty good discount. My CC interest rate is 9.75%, no annual fee, no minimum spend. Pay in the same billing cycle, no interest. I don’t get points, but then I don’t chase them either.
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Old 3 April 2018, 09:19 AM   #29
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I choose hotels that have free breakfast. And no frills credit cards with low interest, no fees, and no hidden costs. In the long run, you can’t make money on points. It’s a fools game (no offense).
No offense taken at all! In the frequent flyer community we say YMMV....meaning your miles may vary or....everyone gets different results. Personally I haven’t stayed at a hotel that offers free breakfast in years so if your finding ones you want to stay at that offer it then great. I beg to differ that I can’t make money when I’m sitting in a Business Class seat and staying at nice hotels putting spend on a credit card for money I’m spending anyway.


Quote:
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The programs are designed to get you to spend more chasing points. The system is built for them to make more money. Do you think they are a charity?

I always ask for the cash price at local stores. I usually get a discount. Big ticket items can be a pretty good discount. My CC interest rate is 9.75%, no annual fee, no minimum spend. Pay in the same billing cycle, no interest. I don’t get points, but then I don’t chase them either.
I don’t think the programs are a charity....they make money off the fees they get from the annual fees, merchant fees and off interest charges. Since I pay ALL of my credit cards off each month and NEVER carry a balance, it’s a win for me. To each his/her own on what they do. I have been known to pay cash for larger purchase IF the vendor offers me a cash discount. I also have been known to calculate if the cash discount outweighs the points I might earn if I passed on the cash discount and got the points instead.
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Old 3 April 2018, 09:29 AM   #30
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I don’t think the programs are a charity....they make money off the fees they get from the annual fees, merchant fees and off interest charges. Since I pay ALL of my credit cards off each month and NEVER carry a balance, it’s a win for me. To each his/her own on what they do. I have been known to pay cash for larger purchase IF the vendor offers me a cash discount. I also have been known to calculate if the cash discount outweighs the points I might earn if I passed on the cash discount and got the points instead.
Look at the interest rates on many of the cards with point programs. CSR is 24% and up. The points program manipulates and incentivises people to spend more, and if the buyer doesn’t pay that billing cycle he gets gouged on interest. It’s a racket.

Good on ya for paying on time. Most people don’t. Statistics bear that out. Incentivising people to spend more, and to carry balances on these high interest accounts, is why I say this is a fools game.
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