Anyone considering selling a watch to put into Crypto?

[RBradleigh]

I’d much rather sell some crypto to buy a watch :)

[RBradleigh]

Originally Posted by tnt

No.
Sell crypto to buy house lol

This!

[Nikrnic]

Nope. That's not for me. I'm invested up to my ears.

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[904VT]

I wouldn't buy Enron or WorldCom in Summer 2001

You would think there has to be a time when governments wake up to Crypto and shut it down. The whole idea is very strange. Hard assets imo are what's real.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I wouldn't buy Enron or WorldCom in Summer 2001

You would think there has to be a time when governments wake up to Crypto and shut it down. The whole idea is very strange. Hard assets imo are what's real.

SEC commissioner Hester Peirce said at a virtual event on Wednesday that the possibility of a bitcoin ban has passed and governmental attempts to do so would be pointless.
"I don't see how you could ban it," she said at an "Investing in Crypto" event hosted by MarketWatch. "A government could say it's not allowed here, but people would still be able to do it," she added, saying it would be hard to stop anyone from trading in digital assets. "So I think it would be a foolish thing for the government to try to do that."

[GolfJunkie]

Originally Posted by tnt

No.
Sell crypto to buy house lol

Agree. I’m strongly considering selling my holdings and buying more properties.

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by BobMartian

Who's buying the coinbase IPO today?

Dropped like a rock......


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[airchitect]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I wouldn't buy Enron or WorldCom in Summer 2001

You would think there has to be a time when governments wake up to Crypto and shut it down. The whole idea is very strange. Hard assets imo are what's real.

Define hard asset though..... cash with nothing behind it, real estate artificially inflated by material shortages etc, gold that most people could care less about, or stock markets manipulated by hedge funds day in and day out....... it’s really quite squirrelly across the board.


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[SPMN]

Short-term? Probably not. You’d be buying at an all-time-high.

Long-term? Of course. Honestly, anyone who doesn’t have at least 5% of their investment portfolio in crypto isn’t paying attention.

[Frank McKay]

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Well, I first bought bitcoin when it was at $400. I guess my statement needs a lot more context. What I mean is, I think smaller coins have a lot more upside potential at this point than Bitcoin. Of course, it's all just speculation.

Which ALT coins do you feel are under valued?

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Which ALT coins do you feel are under valued?

Undervalued is not what I'd call things in crypto. Anyway, some coins that I have that I like a lot are XVG, XLM, XTZ, RDD, SC, DGB, OMG, REN, ADA, DIA and DOT to name several. I mean, look at Doge - it's a crap coin that went from .003 to .27 now? Crypto is a lot of hype with not much substance. You have coins with great blockchains that are superfast like XVG and XLM but their pricing is rather low IMO. Bitcoin is terrible to send and receive. Slow and super costly. I feel like crypto is the wild west of currency and everyone should get in on it.

When I got into crypto the GLOBAL crypto market cap was ~70 billion dollars or so. Today it is 2.3 trillion. Even that is peanuts. My theory here is high tides raise all boats. Crypto will continue to boom for a long while in my estimation.

[BNA/LION]

No.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by huncho

SEC commissioner Hester Peirce said at a virtual event on Wednesday that the possibility of a bitcoin ban has passed and governmental attempts to do so would be pointless.
"I don't see how you could ban it," she said at an "Investing in Crypto" event hosted by MarketWatch. "A government could say it's not allowed here, but people would still be able to do it," she added, saying it would be hard to stop anyone from trading in digital assets. "So I think it would be a foolish thing for the government to try to do that."

Definitely a good point. I did see that. I think she's getting ahead of herself though. Seems like China is considering a physical gold backed Digital. They probably anticipate algo based Crypto to be a bubble. I'd bet they figure a way to ban crypto too if they're smart enough to be looking a physical backed digital. Cryptos are today just like credit default swaps in 08. Exponential exposures intermingled. I tend to agree more with Ray Dalio's perspective than Hester's. I think the crackdown is just as possible to come from an agency other than the SEC too such as the Dept of Treasury. Throw a big alternative minimum tax on crypto and slowly bleed it to death is probably the smoothest route to a crackdown. Securities marketing violations by the SEC may be quicker, those can put all crypto exchanges out of biz. The exchanges probably didn't think they were subject to regulation, but it can be applied retroactively and big fines. Kill the exchange market and it kills crypto too.

One efficient method to take it to all the cryptos and related market participants is with Securities marketing violations. These were all sold for years as "currencies". They're really just (seemingly) unstable speculative securities.

Hester of course is a big deregulation supporter too, so she may be letting her perspective be muddied by her beliefs of what she thinks is best for traditional capital markets.

https://cryptotvplus.com/2021/04/inc...as-a-security/

By the way people here will probably slaughter me but a Rolex is much more of a real investment (even if we refuse as a forum to call it that) than any crypto could ever be. Reminds me of the commodity and interest rate explosion in the 70's and 80's. Slowly deteriorating real wealth.

The one aspect thought that I think Crypto miners (and "experts" on crypto such as on TV) are overlooking is what happens when energy prices take off. Perhaps the miners are dumping now lol, but more than likely the miners and participants have a limited skillset analyzing energy markets (and silicon development and production).

But investors are going to take the hit in crypto. Increasing energy prices along with hash rate limiters by NVIDIA on their GPUs (assuming they continue to fine-tune) may keep reducing values too. The increasing energy prices reaching a level high enough to cause a crypto crash may very well come due to over-regulation of natural gas markets. Or perhaps the coming crowding out of cryptos due to over-reliance on green energy. We saw in TX what unstable energy production (windmills in cold temps) do to pricing. The move to electric vehicles too takes a lot of coal. Putting upward pressure on coal energy prices with the electric vehicle moves being forced on autos is going to be a factor on energy prices too.

I truly believe most of these crashes happen at times like this when most everyone doesn't expect it. Bottom line, Crypto's upward trend has really only been driven by one thing and that's the mining tools aka NVIDIA's Tensor cores in their RTX line of GPUs. That's a lot of idiosyncratic risk imo to be confident banking on cryptos.

Anyway enough of my rant lol

[77T]

Originally Posted by 904VT

The exchanges probably didn't think they were subject to regulation, but it can be applied retroactively and big fines. Kill the exchange market and it kills crypto too.

I agreed with all the other parts of your post and only pasted this part for a bit of clarification.

I agree regulation is the better tool - and no way to “ban” cryptocoins. But new regulations can’t be applied retroactively - nor fines levied until such regulations are codified with prescribed guidelines.

This could be done in US for those exchanges based here. But other global exchanges are free to trade with US holders on dark web so a bit squidgy enforcing regs.

If US was going to dampen demand, the counterfeiting of currency is another angle in US Codes. For example, enacting governance of commerce to only be transacted in federal reserve notes (or bank drafts solely backed by USD).

Not taking sides, just convo on effective ways to work with the new crypto’s. Anyone wanting Dogecoin now? A joke gone serious...


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[Moondoggy]

Virtual currency or a virtual watch.....mmmmmm

[904VT]

Originally Posted by 77T

I agreed with all the other parts of your post and only pasted this part for a bit of clarification.

I agree regulation is the better tool - and no way to “ban” cryptocoins. But new regulations can’t be applied retroactively - nor fines levied until such regulations are codified with prescribed guidelines.

This could be done in US for those exchanges based here. But other global exchanges are free to trade with US holders on dark web so a bit squidgy enforcing regs.

If US was going to dampen demand, the counterfeiting of currency is another angle in US Codes. For example, enacting governance of commerce to only be transacted in federal reserve notes (or bank drafts solely backed by USD).

Not taking sides, just convo on effective ways to work with the new crypto’s. Anyone wanting Dogecoin now? A joke gone serious...


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What I mean by retroactively is that the exchanges are not currently regulated by SEC. I could see them coming later and say well you even though you weren't selling specifically defined securities in Crypto, you were selling securities by definition (as opposed to a currency) and then fine them for having conducted improper marketing of securities. Something they all have done for years now just by implying Crypto is a currency. It's really a security and all portrayal of being a currency and or terming/framing is improper marketing.

I find it interesting for sure, no sides just interesting debate on a new subject.

Due to mentioned complexities, I do think at the end of the day we will see two things used as tools. Alternative Minimum Tax above and beyond current for all current crypto holdings coming from Dept of Treasury and then fines for improper securities marketing coming down on the exchanges and from the SEC. May take a little while to get to that point imo though.

[77T]

Originally Posted by 904VT

What I mean by retroactively is that the exchanges are not currently regulated by SEC. I could see them coming later and say well you even though you weren't selling specifically defined securities in Crypto, you were selling securities by definition (as opposed to a currency) and then fine them for having conducted improper marketing of securities. Something they all have done for years now just by implying Crypto is a currency. It's really a security and all portrayal of being a currency and or terming/framing is improper marketing.

It’s a curious thing this crypto - neither fish nor fowl.

Crypto itself is unregulated. Treasury doesn’t touch it as a currency, nor does SEC as a registered security. IRS simply treats it as a source of profitable trading for tax purposes.

Exchanges aren’t marketing the crypto, they are marketing the features of their business.

But the new ETFs based on various crypto’s are regulated - go figure.


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[TommyT53]

If you can’t afford to buy crypto without selling something, don’t do it.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by 77T

It’s a curious thing this crypto - neither fish nor fowl.

Crypto itself is unregulated. Treasury doesn’t touch it as a currency, nor does SEC as a registered security. IRS simply treats it as a source of profitable trading for tax purposes.

Exchanges aren’t marketing the crypto, they are marketing the features of their business.

But the new ETFs based on various crypto’s are regulated - go figure.


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I think the smart exchanges are just calling it crypto.....though those that market crypto currency exchange as a business from my perspective at least are involved in securities marketing. The loans they offer are similar to margin accounts too. They start talking liquidity, spot prices among others and it's a fine line I wouldn't want to go near if a business. I take the below link and prior statement to mean that the SEC is warning they may come after at a later date those they deem to violate the Securities Act of 1934. Jay isn't of course active, but seems to be somewhat of an official statement.

https://www.sec.gov/news/public-stat...ton-2017-12-11

"I also caution market participants against promoting or touting the offer and sale of coins without first determining whether the securities laws apply to those actions. Selling securities generally requires a license, and experience shows that excessive touting in thinly traded and volatile markets can be an indicator of “scalping,” “pump and dump” and other manipulations and frauds. Similarly, I also caution those who operate systems and platforms that effect or facilitate transactions in these products that they may be operating unregistered exchanges or broker-dealers that are in violation of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934."

Should get interesting in the next year or so.

[Mifune]

I did it... I sold my airking and rolled that $6500 into Bitcoin and ADA @ $25,000 and $0.30 respectively. I just bought a NOS 114060 and might consider doing it again.

[yoniman]

Not selling me watch. Bitcoin is easier to purchase over here than a Rolex.
I am officially a Bitcoin HODLER. Sell in 10 years time.

It's all about health, happiness & family. The rest are just necessary inconveniences we have to deal with.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by 77T

It’s a curious thing this crypto - neither fish nor fowl.

Crypto itself is unregulated. Treasury doesn’t touch it as a currency, nor does SEC as a registered security. IRS simply treats it as a source of profitable trading for tax purposes.

Exchanges aren’t marketing the crypto, they are marketing the features of their business.

But the new ETFs based on various crypto’s are regulated - go figure.


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I think it may be starting Paul. The crackdown that is. Guess we’ll see what will happen but sure is going to be interesting.

https://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-price...094926937.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/deut...ME2NP?rpc=401&

[904VT]

Originally Posted by airchitect

Define hard asset though..... cash with nothing behind it, real estate artificially inflated by material shortages etc, gold that most people could care less about, or stock markets manipulated by hedge funds day in and day out....... it’s really quite squirrelly across the board.


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Agreed strange times. Hard assets are physical. Can even say Rolex is a hard asset. Stocks are financial assets. Crypto is at the far extreme end and a speculative imo at least. The latter are the least stable usually.

[JParm]

Not me.

I'm fully invested at the height of my risk tolerance - mostly growth stocks outside of my retirement accounts - and I rather enjoy my watches.

If I was looking for more growth / diversification, I'd probably just rearrange my portfolio vs risk losing more than what I already have in the market. Nothing is a sure thing, especially these days - but my Rolex remains steady and at the very least provides ample amounts of happiness.

I'm also not a crypto guy, but I think it goes for any type of investment...

[904VT]

Looks like crypto is taking a big hit. Getting ugly. Hope OP didn't do a trade recently

[huncho]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Looks like crypto is taking a big hit. Getting ugly. Hope OP didn't do a trade recently

it was needed. bunch of alt coins with no purpose or adoption have been going 20-50x

everything started happening over the weekend when china had issues with coal mines that ended up bringing down a huge portion of the bitcoin network which made transactions back up and fees enormous. long term i don't think anything has changed for bitcoin, lot of positive news came out in the last week

[904VT]

Originally Posted by huncho

it was needed. bunch of alt coins with no purpose or adoption have been going 20-50x

everything started happening over the weekend when china had issues with coal mines that ended up bringing down a huge portion of the bitcoin network which made transactions back up and fees enormous. long term i don't think anything has changed for bitcoin, lot of positive news came out in the last week

I hope you're right for the sake of crypto holders. Though I recall similar market sentiment at last crypto bubble too. Perhaps that's its pattern of growth though. You always make good points

[huncho]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I hope you're right for the sake of crypto holders. Though I recall similar market sentiment at last crypto bubble too. Perhaps that's its pattern of growth though. You always make good points

i hope i'm right too and hope this time is different with so many big buyers, but in the end it really is the wild west and no one knows lol

[77T]

The new SEC chair, Gary Ginsler just made the case in an interview on CNBC for regulating the crypto exchanges to get at the gamification of trading asset classes.

Look for a bill in congress soon methinks…


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[beshannon]

Originally Posted by 77T

The new SEC chair, Gary Ginsler just made the case in an interview on CNBC for regulating the crypto exchanges to get at the gamification of trading asset classes.

Look for a bill in congress soon methinks…


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Bitcoin Bubble In Terminal Stage

https://seekingalpha.com/article/442...terminal-stage