Florida Beach Condo Advise. Let me have it.

[Kinnakeet]

We go to Lido Key every few months so there. Or Longboat Key. Atlantic side would be Wilber by the Sea / Ponce Inlet area.

[subtona]

Great thread with thoughtful suggestions.

I have been starting to contemplate though I am a couple of years out from pulling the trigger.
Considering similar options, your bullet specs are spot on for me as well.

The main point I haven’t resolved is owning vs renting 1-4months a year? The costs are a consideration but the maintenance and upkeep and peace of mind of not owning a part time property is tilting the scale at this time.

[JakeK]

I have lots of family in Florida and my parents have a second home in Naples.

water-front condo is totally doable. where you run into trouble is high end furnishing and finishes. You'll need to toward $1.2MM for superior finishings.

saying that here are a few communities to check that I wouldn't mind living in.

Fort Myers Beach (estero island half i.e. the southern half)

Sanibel Island

Bonita Springs

Marco Island

Vero Beach

Jupiter

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by subtona

Great thread with thoughtful suggestions.

I have been starting to contemplate though I am a couple of years out from pulling the trigger.
Considering similar options, your bullet specs are spot on for me as well.

The main point I haven’t resolved is owning vs renting 1-4months a year? The costs are a consideration but the maintenance and upkeep and peace of mind of not owning a part time property is tilting the scale at this time.

You bring up a good point. We have a place in Florida and in Canada. We have decided that if we ever gave up our Florida place and found ourselves full time in Canada that it would make more sense doing a long term rental, say 3 months. With out repairs it would cost about $15,000 a year to maintain the Florida place sitting empty.

[CFR]

Originally Posted by subtona

Great thread with thoughtful suggestions.

I have been starting to contemplate though I am a couple of years out from pulling the trigger.
Considering similar options, your bullet specs are spot on for me as well.

The main point I haven’t resolved is owning vs renting 1-4months a year? The costs are a consideration but the maintenance and upkeep and peace of mind of not owning a part time property is tilting the scale at this time.

One thing to keep in mind is that "transient rentals" (rentals less than 6 months long) are subject to state and other taxes. Therefore, rentals that are 6 months and 1 day long are pretty common.

[JakeK]

Originally Posted by subtona

Great thread with thoughtful suggestions.

I have been starting to contemplate though I am a couple of years out from pulling the trigger.
Considering similar options, your bullet specs are spot on for me as well.

The main point I haven’t resolved is owning vs renting 1-4months a year? The costs are a consideration but the maintenance and upkeep and peace of mind of not owning a part time property is tilting the scale at this time.

Subtona,
I'm a big fan of renting when you can. My parents own their second home in Naples. They are there for about 3 months of the year spread out across multiple weekends and week long stays. Because of how they use the second house, buying was more advantageous. Their HOA covers lawn maintenance and visual inspections of the house along with storm prep if needed. Pool maintenance is about $60 a month.

[TheHulk]

Originally Posted by THC

Gulf Shores Alabama will hit your target price possibly. Same great beaches, same Gulf.

I second this.... a bit touristy but a lot more value

[2000-NJDEVILS]

All have on the sand condos for snow birds - just be careful on HOA fees!!
West coast of Florida:
Naples, Ft. Meyers, Clearwater, Sarasota and St. Pete.
GOOD LUCK

[Wes911]

Dominican Republic at that price point.
I realize you said no outside of USA but the lockdown stuff isn't going to happen regularly. Heck not to get political but in 5-10 years you may be begging to have a place outside the good ole USA.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

We come from Santa Monica / San Diego, and are in our (sad to say) late 30's now - Cocoa is a bit too open in terms of space / sleepy for us.

Very much understand. Yeah, love a great city or Vegas 'fix', yet for me living is for relaxing on a non-overcrowded beach. Great surfing is a bonus. So yeah, other places are far more fast-paced

I love the brainpan power in Cocoa too.

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by Kinnakeet

You bring up a good point. We have a place in Florida and in Canada. We have decided that if we ever gave up our Florida place and found ourselves full time in Canada that it would make more sense doing a long term rental, say 3 months. With out repairs it would cost about $15,000 a year to maintain the Florida place sitting empty.

Our Florida home model went up 37% in the last year.That covers a decade and more of maintenance costs.

Florida real estate is notoriously boom and bust, but you can expand your net worth if you own. You cannot if you rent.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

Our Florida home model went up 37% in the last year.That covers a decade and more of maintenance costs.

Florida real estate is notoriously boom and bust, but you can expand your net worth if you own. You cannot if you rent.

Solid point, well said

Aside from simple lifestyle choice, I guess like many financial decisions there is no single correct answer. Consideration of a variety of factors.
age / risk tolerance as it relates to the “boom and bust” must be considered.

[masterserg]

Indian Rocks Beach / Clearwater is the way to go!

Vero Beach is super nice but very quiet and not much to do ... Melbourne Beach is nice as well.

Sunny Isles is nice and closer to everything but double your budget and they will murder you with HOA fees.

[Pw92676]

We love Space Coast. Not as ritzy.one of our four getaway condos and most favorite hands down. Can’t move full time yet but when that time comes we may cash out everywhere and get on the water there.

[crew]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

Our Florida home model went up 37% in the last year.That covers a decade and more of maintenance costs.

Florida real estate is notoriously boom and bust, but you can expand your net worth if you own. You cannot if you rent.

Couldn’t agree more on the "boom or bust" history of Florida real estate. We bought our condo in January of 2016 in what I would call a rising market. Five years later we are, on paper, up about 45%. At some point it could quickly go in the other direction but, as I am told by the so called experts here in Naples, ocean front is still ocean front. They don’t make it anymore and it won’t fall as much as the overall real estate market in a bust. It will also riser quicker in a boom market.
Also, as mentioned above several times, the HOA fees need to be throughly vetted and understood. HOA fees will never go down. We are currently under 2 special assessments with one of them expiring this summer. There are now talks underway to build additional covered parking spaces so each unit will have 2. No doubt that this will involve another assessment.

[JasoninDenver]

What is the current thought on the impact of rising sea levels and storm surges on waterfront Florida properties?

Are flood insurance premiums and/or HOA’s increasing to offset concerns?

A few (10 or more) years ago a co-worker was looking at Miami and the fears then were that the occasional storm surges would make a lot of properties uninsurable. He ended up buying on Marco Island because of those fears. His place has more than doubled since then.

Sure wish I had pulled the trigger when I did, but we have done well with our Colorado mountain properties, despite the wildfire issues.

[Rockrolex]

We recently sold our beachfront condo in Boca Raton for slightly less than your top price. You could look there. We were a 10 minute walk from about 4-5 restaurants. We sold it because we hardly used it. We were on the 17th floor, had a balcony and looked out over the ocean. You might want to look there.

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

We recently sold our beachfront condo in Boca Raton for slightly less than your top price. You could look there. We were a 10 minute walk from about 4-5 restaurants. We sold it because we hardly used it. We were on the 17th floor, had a balcony and looked out over the ocean. You might want to look there.

Our second home is in that area. Lots to do, definitely not rural if you come from an active metro region like us and you expect lots of good restaurants, stores, etc.

[CFR]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

What is the current thought on the impact of rising sea levels and storm surges on waterfront Florida properties?

Are flood insurance premiums and/or HOA’s increasing to offset concerns?

A few (10 or more) years ago a co-worker was looking at Miami and the fears then were that the occasional storm surges would make a lot of properties uninsurable. He ended up buying on Marco Island because of those fears. His place has more than doubled since then.

Insurance is non-trivial, and premiums are ever-increasing. Wind insurance is as important as flood insurance when it comes to hurricanes. On an Amelia Island house that I rent to others, I carry 4 separate policies: Wind, Flood, Liability, and regular Homeowners/Property (whatever it's called). Citizen's is the State (of Florida)-owned insurance company that was (still is?) known as the "insurer of last resort" (high premiums, horrible to deal with), and Citizens was the only company that would give me certain types of insurance.

On a related note, many condo owners (myself included) learned a very expensive lesson a few years ago. There's a thing called the "wind-driven rain exclusion." Let's say a slow-moving hurricane is sitting over your condo and driving rain horizontally into the outside stucco/block wall of your building for 1-2 hours at 100MPH. That wall is porous, so the rainwater will eventually intrude and ruin the interior walls, floors, etc. It'll cause all sorts of mold problems in south Florida. I thought I was covered for that damage, but I wasn't, because "we (the insurance company) expect the building envelope to be sealed." Now, if a coconut had smashed through my window and rain got in that way, I would've been covered. Why? Because the opening causing the rain to enter would've been "newly created." $60K (ouch!) later, I now have insurance without that "wind-driven rain" exclusion.

[JakeK]

bumping this.

This article is over a year old but the lesson is more true now than ever. Wall Street has learned that there is money to be made in residential housing. Everything from mobile homes to mansions.

If I was thinking of renting vs. buying, i'm probably more inclined to buy and buy fast. My gut says there might be another 18 to 36 months of housing bubble to play out. No real evidence other than mid-term / next presidential election cycle.

https://www.ccn.com/wall-streets-ins...ousing-market/

[turkeysub93]

Originally Posted by masterserg

Indian Rocks Beach / Clearwater is the way to go!

Vero Beach is super nice but very quiet and not much to do ... Melbourne Beach is nice as well.

Sunny Isles is nice and closer to everything but double your budget and they will murder you with HOA fees.

I'd be very deliberate if targeting Clearwater Beach...lots of riffraff unless you are at the Northernmost tip or on Island Estates.

Indian Rocks Beach is pristine and much more laid back with arguably better dining options...more affordable as well.

Sweet spot really is anything between Sand Key and Redington.

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

Hurry up or wait for a crash. Florida real estate prices are going through the roof.
We have a second home in the Delray Beach area. We like our area.

+1 on Delray Beach. Lots of places to walk to and not that far from both the Palm Beach/ West Palm area and Lauderdale / Miami area

Boca Raton is also a good option.

Mind potential hurricane damage wherever you choose.

HOA fees require constant vigilance and you will need a reserve fund for the inevitable increases and large assessments.

FL has no state estate tax for legal residents.

Declare a homestead, it shelters what the home is worth.

[77T]

Originally Posted by JakeK

bumping this.

This article is over a year old but the lesson is more true now than ever. Wall Street has learned that there is money to be made in residential housing. Everything from mobile homes to mansions.

If I was thinking of renting vs. buying, i'm probably more inclined to buy and buy fast. My gut says there might be another 18 to 36 months of housing bubble to play out. No real evidence other than mid-term / next presidential election cycle.

That author’s bias bleeds through the digital ink - I would not trust that any of his sources have any inkling of how the financial crisis affected the housing value rebound.

But I do agree that buying beachfront today is poor timing - the OP has time on his side since his retirement window is up to 3 years away.

Renting homes (in the coming holiday periods over that timeframe) in the different target markets that he may be considering is a good strategy. My parents did the same and I have too. It’s a great vacation with benefits: learn how that community works by having “boots on the ground”.

So I’m saying “vactionally rent” over the next 3 years in different beachfront communities, talk with the Chambers of Commerce, research the local/state political aspect , research the realtors in that market (who you may need in the future) and draw your own conclusions. While you’re doing that the market factors could shift from the sell-side to the buy-side to the OP’s advantage.

Oh...and monitor the tidal trends posted at noaa.gov + the red tide trends on the State’s Fish & Wildlife websites. Just using Florida as an example, the East Coast communities are generally less negatively impacted than the Keys and Gulf Coast by King Tide flooding and Karenia brevis algae events.

Again just my 2¢


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[CashGap]

Whew. You all are very helpful... might take me two years to absorb all of this!!!

Headed to Miami Friday for 25th wedding anniversary, may check out a few places but not really a "working trip".

THANKS

[Maxtor]

Enjoy Miami. We have had a family condo in Sunny Isles for 30+ years. Great area. You can find something in your price range if you buy on the intercoastal waterway rather than on the beach. It is still waterfront and only a block from the beach, so worth checking out.

[Paul7]

Originally Posted by subtona

Great thread with thoughtful suggestions.

I have been starting to contemplate though I am a couple of years out from pulling the trigger.
Considering similar options, your bullet specs are spot on for me as well.

The main point I haven’t resolved is owning vs renting 1-4months a year? The costs are a consideration but the maintenance and upkeep and peace of mind of not owning a part time property is tilting the scale at this time.

Especially when the hurricanes come.

[Paul7]

Originally Posted by Wes911

Dominican Republic at that price point.
I realize you said no outside of USA but the lockdown stuff isn't going to happen regularly.

If not outside of the US how about Puerto Rico? Just got back, loved it. Friendly people, great food, better weather than FL (from my experience in the winter in FL you have a 50/50 chance of good weather), no gridlock traffic, US$ used, many English speakers, and part of the US.

[Paul7]

Originally Posted by CashGap

Tell me more! A short flight doesn’t concern me.

It's sort of the best of both worlds, a different culture while being part of the US, occasionally see US military helicopters flying overhead. Health care system rated the best in the Caribbean, much cheaper rates than US care, your US health insurance probably covers there also. A distinct Spanish influence, it was part of Spain until not much more than a century ago. Wife grew up in Spain and loves it there. Wonderful food, like Spanish seasonings, not spicy, great seafood like FL, weekend whole pig roasts in the mountains, Anthony Bourdain loved those. Like anywhere, there are wealthy areas (Condado Beach, San Juan) and poor ones. Temps generally in the 80s along the coast with consistent ocean breezes, water swimmable all year round, unlike FL there are mountain areas, they can get in the 40s at night. Cell phone and internet works just like home. Puerto Rico isn't on the radar of many travelers yet they go to Mexico with it's cartels, filth and bad water, not many English speakers there either. I was reading one NYT travel editor who said PR was his favorite destination. Lots of history, Old San Juan looks like Europe, we went to Palm Sunday service at the San Juan cathedral, they are celebrating their 500th anniversary this year. Massive El Morro fort, a must see.

As I may have mentioned, I was planning on Panama City Panama, until their response to China Virus (100% lockdown, four hours out of apartment per WEEK) 100% terrified me!

The Puerto Rico Covid policy isn't much different than in the mainland, we did have to get tested before going there but as it is part of the US you don't have to get tested when you come home.

A few photos, wife at home of Ponce de Leon, beach scene (that beach is rated one of the top 25 in the Caribbean), El Convento Hotel, former convent from the 1600s now a very nice hotel, gratuitous Rolex photo, two-tone Sub San Juan jeweler wanted to sell me for $12K, not my style.

BTW, Puerto Rico residents do not pay US income tax on income earned in PR.

[CFR]

Originally Posted by CashGap

... China Virus ...

To maximize your happiness when you relocate, you may want to ensure that you pick a community of like-minded people that uses and accepts your kind of language rather than the more conventional, neutral, non-controversial terminology (e.g., "COVID-19" or "the coronavirus"). The people you're around will be much more important than the climate when it comes to your happiness/satisfaction after moving, IMHO, and you don't want to be "that guy." Casually throwing around terms like "China Virus" in the way that you just did right here, to a broad audience, will raise eyebrows in many places.

[turkeysub93]

^Woke police has entered the thread