the Coronavirus outbreak thread

[wesdaniel]

Originally Posted by Patton250

South Korean news reports the news. It’s actually quite helpful and informative. American news sensationalizes it over and over and over and over again. It’s not the news. It’s rampant out of control emotion with tidbits of information and mostly the kind that creates fear. That’s how I see it.

In this country we've come to think that the talking heads on the 24-hour "news networks" are "the news." They're not. Regardless of the channel - CNN, MSNBC, FOX - they're all entertainment and are meant to stoke emotion - not to provide information.

If you read your news from reliabile sources (Reuters, etc.) or watch the actual news (like the 6:00 news - regardless of the source), you'll get a lot of facts with very little in the way of commentary and opinion.

[77T]

Originally Posted by wesdaniel

If you read your news from reliabile sources (Reuters, etc.) or watch the actual news (like the 6:00 news - regardless of the source), you'll get a lot of facts with very little in the way of commentary and opinion.

Wes - I think this is a valuable point you made. I’d like to amplify it.

For those who are incensed at the way certain “media” are handling this situation, please turn it off - get up right now - go to that TV and change the channel. The fact that it bothers you is evidence that it is toxic for you.

By and large, we don’t need minute-by-minute coverage.

I also agree that one should consume news from reliable sources.


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[Solo118]

Originally Posted by 77T

Wes - I think this is a valuable point you made. I’d like to amplify it.

For those who are incensed at the way certain “media” are handling this situation, please turn it off - get up right now - go to that TV and change the channel. The fact that it bothers you is evidence that it is toxic for you.

By and large, we don’t need minute-by-minute coverage.

I also agree that one should consume news from reliable sources.


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Agreed, and the internet just puts jet fuel on the fire with all random soures and opinions. People really believe everything they read and it is sad.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by wesdaniel

In this country we've come to think that the talking heads on the 24-hour "news networks" are "the news." They're not. Regardless of the channel - CNN, MSNBC, FOX - they're all entertainment and are meant to stoke emotion - not to provide information.

If you read your news from reliabile sources (Reuters, etc.) or watch the actual news (like the 6:00 news - regardless of the source), you'll get a lot of facts with very little in the way of commentary and opinion.

Totally agree.

Originally Posted by 77T

Wes - I think this is a valuable point you made. I’d like to amplify it.

For those who are incensed at the way certain “media” are handling this situation, please turn it off - get up right now - go to that TV and change the channel. The fact that it bothers you is evidence that it is toxic for you.

By and large, we don’t need minute-by-minute coverage.

I also agree that one should consume news from reliable sources.


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Exactly. And that is precisely why I don’t watch news anymore for the most part. Although I must admit I’ve check most of the TV news sources this past month a few times. That’s how I’ve formed my opinion about them on this subject. Anyway good advice for sure.

[EEpro]

I don't think the negative is overblown. It's not the flu. It's way way worse.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...young-patients

[Kowaco]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I don't think the negative is overblown. It's not the flu. It's way way worse.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...young-patients

I don’t think that’s a real news source.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I don't think the negative is overblown. It's not the flu. It's way way worse.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...young-patients

I think there is strong agreement among all professionals that it is much worse than am the seasonal flu.

The article is chilling; it relates what we’ve read before. I didn’t see any new revelations that haven’t already been widely reported in Italy and So. Korea.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by Kowaco

I don’t think that’s a real news source.


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ProPublica is real - but they have related same info we’ve seen before however from a different locale, New Orleans.


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[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Kowaco

I don’t think that’s a real news source.


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https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/propublica/

[bigcarbs]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Come on now. There's at least 28 hot dogs right there!

Guess what I'm eating tomorrow? Hot dogs. Stores aren't full in Vegas either. Just trying to make the best of a crazy situation, no hard feelings intended.

The Albertsons by my house doesn’t have much to choose from as far as meat goes, plenty of empty shelves. Costco business center is the place to be though. Last week seemed worse with everyone panic buying.

[TswaneNguni]

Well,if you are going to be locked up ,it does make sense to stock up .
More isolation,less exposure by going out less fequently.

[statsman]

In the US, Dallas County, with 133 cases today (about 1/3 of the state’s total), has gone to a “shelter in place” with non essential businesses closed. They have asked the governor to do the same for t whole state. Wisely, he has declined (84 cases are in the part of the state with Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and Houston. There are dozens of counties with no cases).

I think it’s an overreaction from Dallas. Why? Because they are scared and every medical expert is encouraging them to do that (the old “to a carpenter, every problem looks like a nail).

We need leadership to come up with a strategy that puts limits on these measures. I get the seriousness and the threat to lives of doing nothing. There is also a real human life cost, in deaths, to crushing the economy. That must be part of the equation, too, and no infectious disease doctor will calculate that.

[andyxxx]

The shelves of meat, pasta, fruit and tp will be full again this week.

The masses can only afford to purchase 3000 toilet rolls and have run out of space to store it - I am not saying certain items will remain harder to get, but with sensible buying there is no shortage of anything.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by superdog

Sigh. Sigh. Sigh....

I heard that Seth old buddy.

I said thoughtful. I didn't say I agreed with all of the substance of the post. But I did appreciate the fighting spirit.

Stay safe my friend.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by statsman

In the US, Dallas County, with 133 cases today (about 1/3 of the state’s total), has gone to a “shelter in place” with non essential businesses closed. They have asked the governor to do the same for t whole state. Wisely, he has declined (84 cases are in the part of the state with Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and Houston. There are dozens of counties with no cases).

I think it’s an overreaction from Dallas. Why? Because they are scared and every medical expert is encouraging them to do that (the old “to a carpenter, every problem looks like a nail).

We need leadership to come up with a strategy that puts limits on these measures. I get the seriousness and the threat to lives of doing nothing. There is also a real human life cost, in deaths, to crushing the economy. That must be part of the equation, too, and no infectious disease doctor will calculate that.

Understand your concerns. But I also understand that failing to adopt stricter measures while there was still time didn't go so well in Northern Italy.

Stay safe.

[daveathall]

Just thinking aloud, but this should have been tackled as a world problem. All world stock markets should have been suspended, no trading whatsoever. (I don't even know if that would have worked). A world plan should have been set in place, countries, states, provinces, counties etc have all been doing different things, medical facilities should have been made available for anyone from any country who were there at the time. (Free).

I may have just typed a load of rubbish, if I did, no doubt someone will let me know.

[statsman]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

Understand your concerns. But I also understand that failing to adopt stricter measures while there was still time didn't go so well in Northern Italy.

Stay safe.

Yes. Italy is a severe case. The whole world doesn’t need the restrictions of Italy. Italy needs help from a strong world- crippling the rest of the world doesn’t help it.

Similarly, the best way to help NY is for the rest of the country to be strong.

If this Covid-19 runs its course in the US without a cure or treatment, without halts in infections, tens of thousands will die, painfully, and maybe even millions.

If we shut everything down to halt infections, crippling the economy and destroying tens of millions of jobs, then there will be tens of thousands of death from the economic carnage- degraded health care, violence, addictions...plus, the measures might not evenly seriously halt the virus.

I think our leaders need a plan and they need to communicate it. The measures for NY would (and should) look different than the measures elsewhere.

Here is a thought that, as a moderate Libertarian, horrified me, but should be considered- there are two nations in this world that have dropping case numbers: the PRC and the ROK. Both employed a similar strategy- abundant testing and isolation of asymptomatic to moderate symptom positives in state managed dormitories until clear. Meanwhile, the rest of the economy chugs along.

That approach requires a lot of available testing and new housing. The Chinese built the housing pre-fab. The Koreans commandeered industrial space. The Us could use hotels.

You could roll that out in the US, if adequate testing were a available. It would shut down NY and keep business as usual in the rest of the country.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by statsman

Yes. Italy is a severe case. The whole world doesn’t need the restrictions of Italy. Italy needs help from a strong world- crippling the rest of the world doesn’t help it.

Similarly, the best way to help NY is for the rest of the country to be strong.

If this Covid-19 runs its course in the US without a cure or treatment, without halts in infections, tens of thousands will die, painfully, and maybe even millions.

If we shut everything down to halt infections, crippling the economy and destroying tens of millions of jobs, then there will be tens of thousands of death from the economic carnage- degraded health care, violence, addictions...plus, the measures might not evenly seriously halt the virus.

I think our leaders need a plan and they need to communicate it. The measures for NY would (and should) look different than the measures elsewhere.

Here is a thought that, as a moderate Libertarian, horrified me, but should be considered- there are two nations in this world that have dropping case numbers: the PRC and the ROK. Both employed a similar strategy- abundant testing and isolation of asymptomatic to moderate symptom positives in state managed dormitories until clear. Meanwhile, the rest of the economy chugs along.

That approach requires a lot of available testing and new housing. The Chinese built the housing pre-fab. The Koreans commandeered industrial space. The Us could use hotels.

You could roll that out in the US, if adequate testing were a available. It would shut down NY and keep business as usual in the rest of the country.

Understood.

Problem is that US and is not in a position to follow China example. And even if we had the testing to do so, our government is not there. So, what to do with available options to flatten the curve?

I have yet to hear a practicing front line medical professional say wait till their area hits Italy or NY numbers to shelter. Perhaps because they understand geometric spread the difficulty of putting the genie back in the bottle. And the fact that they do not have the resources to deal with what will come.

My opinion is that shelter orders for a short duration do not destroy the economy.

Problem is patchwork implementation and lack of compliance which means orders are less effective. And then they have to be extended. And that does threaten the economy.

Most of the experts I have read believe we could starve this virus in 14-15 days. If we were all on the same page. Problem is that we are not yet there.

Just my opinion.

Stay safe.

[scarlet knight]

But people do not want to do it. The country is me,me, me. There is no sense of self sacrifice for the greater good. There is no coherent national plan. Only hope in it going away, using an unproven malaria drug and blaming others.

[jaisonline]

Originally Posted by EEpro

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/propublica/

Yep. I check the lists often along with factcheck.org.

Kinda sad how the mainstream media doesn’t just report the news w/o an opinion injected into articles. I don’t care about the left, the right, up, down, etc... Just give us facts.

[statsman]

The government could get this if they said that the “shelter in place” is only for three weeks. But they haven’t, because they don’t have a plan for if it doesn’t work. That’s what I would like to see- a plan. They can adapt it as it goes along, as things don’t work or new tools become available.

Of course, testing is the key. Once you test, all sorts of things become possible.

One of the challenges is to quarantine the positive tests, many of whom have no symptoms. How about this (and I am a moderate Libertarian)? The government says:

1. The test is free. However, if you test positive you must stay home. Your name will go on a public database, so your neighbors and associates know you have it. There will be spot tests to make sure you are home, and four figure fines for breaking quarantine.

2. Special government funding will be made available to ensure the positives are made whole. If you have a severe or critical case, your treatment will be to the extent of what is possible, at no cost to you.

3. If you are asked to be tested, after being identified as a contact of another positive, and you don’t want to go on the public database, you have to pay for the test (five figures), and if you get the disease, will bear more of the costs of the treatment.

What do you think of that? Of course, the key is to ramp up test capability even higher.

[77T]

I have an opinion...

Each of us in each of our countries wish this did not happen (presuming we are sane).

Each of our countries have taken approaches that will vary in many aspects.

Each official or each healthcare professional or each economic expert will opine from their unique perspective.

Each of those well-intentioned opinions will focus upon their area of expertise (and sometimes differ with another’s advise).

Each opinion will advocate action to those in positions of power.

Each pyramid of power, in each country has someone (or a group of people) who must process those actions into policy and authorize orders for our health, welfare and safety.

While we may agree or disagree with them, we should avoid offending other member’s view of their country - or even other members within our own country.

We may not think it is political debate, but we ought to avoid saying it here since it inevitably leads to political debates that TRF rules disallow.

Now I’m not pointing at anyone or any point of view. While I have been drafting this post, I’m sure almost a dozen points of view or well-intentioned quotes have been made.

Therefore, my post here will coincidentally appear adjacent to someone’s post - I am not pointing at anyone.


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[statsman]

Thanks. I am trying to avoid being political, but want the most efficacious policy.

This is interesting to me. The state of NY has a population of 19.5 million. Today it has over 15,000 cases. The city of NY has a population of 8.5 million and 9,000 cases.

The rest of the US has a population of 310 million and 20,000 cases.

The best policy approach for NY may not be the same as the best for the rest of the US. Or it might be. I think it is worth asking the question.

[dimag333]

Originally Posted by statsman

Thanks. I am trying to avoid being political, but want the most efficacious policy.

This is interesting to me. The state of NY has a population of 19.5 million. Today it has over 15,000 cases. The city of NY has a population of 8.5 million and 9,000 cases.

The rest of the US has a population of 310 million and 20,000 cases.

The best policy approach for NY may not be the same as the best for the rest of the US. Or it might be. I think it is worth asking the question.

It’s definitely worth asking the question

steve

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

But people do not want to do it. The country is me,me, me. There is no sense of self sacrifice for the greater good. There is no coherent national plan. Only hope in it going away, using an unproven malaria drug and blaming others.

Just an FYI. Let’s say leadership for the United States gets on television today and says were putting the entire country on lockdown for three weeks. The Dow Jones will fall below 10,000 points in about six days. With that will come with roughly 30,000,000 jobs going away permanently. So I would politely ask you before you start accusing lower middle class and poor Americans of being me me me you take a long hard look at those statistics. Most of those people are already out of money because they got laid off last week. The $2000 the government will send them will definitely help but these people are not going to get their jobs back. It takes less than an hour to burn a house down and sometimes years to build one.

[statsman]

You know, testing is the key. Ready availability with prompt results opens up a lot of possibilities.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by statsman

You know, testing is the key. Ready availability with prompt results opens up a lot of possibilities.

That and a test to find out if you’ve already had it.

[djgallo]

The smartest minds in the world are working on this problem.....I am confident that the war against this virus will be won.

Short term administering some promising anti viral drugs (already starting) will hopefully mitigate this virus, and reduce the severity of the virus for the older and high risk patients....this will buy time...

We need to slow the virus.....everything we can do...social distance, remain in place, quarantine......and this needs to be tailored differently in different parts of the country.

In the interim... as much as possible, maintain as much of the economy as possible.....and as the virus begins to subside.....ramp up the economy

Our current mindset is we want this to happen overnight.....it’s going to take time to develop a vaccine that will END THE CRISIS....

Try to remain positive, and supportive to others that are in worse shape than you.

[77T]

Did I do the maths right on US mortality rate? With new higher volume of positive coronavirus tests and the data on those who passed away, it appears to be approx. 1.2%...


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[Patton250]

Originally Posted by 77T

Did I do the maths right on US mortality rate? With new higher volume of positive coronavirus tests and the data on those who passed away, it appears to be approx. 1.2%...


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That’s exactly what I got. Check out Germany. It’s .48%