Tipping has gotten out of control

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by 330ci

The 3.5% surcharge at most restaurants here is stated somewhere in the menu and is usually to cover processing fees. It isn't added on cash sales where I go. Not sure if thats the reasoning over there. Personally I appreciate that they give me the option.

I can see how some people feel like they're being charged more when the end result is the same for the resturaunt though.

The specific ones I referenced were:

Meal tax (4%) - meant to offset property tax reliance, goes mainly to schools and infrastructure.

Worker surcharge (4%) - implemented by individual business owners, touted as money to offset health insurance, etc…

Add 6% for sales tax and it’s already 14% above menu prices.


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[330ci]

Originally Posted by TheDude

The specific ones I referenced were:

Meal tax (4%) - meant to offset property tax reliance, goes mainly to schools and infrastructure.

Worker surcharge (4%) - implemented by individual business owners, touted as money to offset health insurance, etc…

Add 6% for sales tax and it’s already 14% above menu prices.


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I guess I'd be paying it and would likely dissuade me from eating there as much.
Idk why I just can't stand hidden fees, but have no problem overpaying if I feel its worth it.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by brandrea

It really comes down to cost of living and what’s a decent or fair wage IMHO.

I’d venture to guess the cost of living in the places you’ve mentioned are quite high.

No one has answered the question. “What is a fair wage” probably because it’s impossible to answer as we all have varied opinions

Let’s give it a go anyway …let’s say we are talking about a server in NYC, at a mid tier restaurant.

EDIT: let me add this … what’s anyone’s guess as to what a server currently earns in the above scenerio, tips included ?

Thoughts?

We need to understand the value we place on types of work. Relative value is important when we talk about raising total compensation IMO.

Is it fair to pay a teacher the same as waitstaff? The same as the fry cook or the convenience store worker? That’s effectively part of the discussion once you get into living wage territory for hourly service work. Do we chase workers out of harder jobs if an easier one pays roughly the same? In communist Cuba, it’s not uncommon to find waitstaff who tell you they’re actually doctors. They work as servers because the uniformly low pay for all jobs, but specifically in their trained profession - is lower than what they get for service work once you add tips. Beware unintended consequences.

Someone will undoubtedly say that we should pay teachers more (and we should) but that’s public funding. Not so easy to do… and -if- we do, it comes out of all our pockets.


Servers in the best restaurants make hundreds (possibly $1000+) in tips a night, but probably not every night. Those working in a suburban hotel with a restaurant make less than $50 in tips for a breakfast+lunch shift. What I’m saying is that it varies wildly, but by and large it’s not gainful employment.


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[dtwer]

Originally Posted by V25V

In the US, the restaurant industry has always been framed this way and having worked in it for many years, can say I made way more than I would have earning a "livable" wage instead. Does it reduce costs for the employer? Sure. But the good ones know that they will make more over a year being paid this way than a higher hourly wage. Those in local governments have tried to change this and the restaurant workers themselves have fought back against it.

I think most people have little issue tipping for a well done job in a restaurant here in the US. We all know that's how they earn their income and its broadly accepted here. What myself and others take issue with is that now its expected to tip for anything someone does and even if they are awful at it.

+1.

I have no problem tipping nothing for poor or no service and 20, 30% for outstanding service. This is how tipping is supposed to work and I do my part to uphold that philosophy - it's recognition for a job well done.

It is also why I do not agree with the mandatory service fees imposed by the stores; I avoid giving those stores my business. The mandatory fees create a disincentive for going above and beyond. When everyone is categorically handed the award, no one has any incentive to earn the award.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by dtwer

+1.

I have no problem tipping nothing for poor or no service and 20, 30% for outstanding service. This is how tipping is supposed to work and I do my part to uphold that philosophy - it's recognition for a job well done.

It is also why I do not agree with the mandatory service fees imposed by the stores; I avoid giving those stores my business. The mandatory fees create a disincentive for going above and beyond. When everyone is categorically handed the award, no one has any incentive to earn the award.

This is my position. 100%

[Boopie]

My college kid wanted to have summer jobs that gave him a variety of work and life experiences.

He worked retail at a hardware store (a major chain and then a local shop, to experience working at a nationwide corporation and then for an entrepreneur), and then as a waiter at a restaurant.

His conclusion: he loved working for tips, because you get monetarily rewarded for doing a great job. He is very helpful, polite, honest, and not afraid to talk with adults (something that, unfortunately, isn’t as common as it used to be with kids that age). He wasn’t a fan of the do-as-little-as-possible co-workers making the same amount as he did. He greatly enjoyed merit-based pay.

We have always gone out to eat often, and, pre-pandemic, I’d go out to eat lunch every day. When I worked in downtown LA, my lunch group of co-workers would patronize the same handful of restaurants constantly. We’d typically tip 20% post-tax for the regular waiters and waitresses. What’s the swing for a 15% pre-tax tip versus 20% post-tax, especially for lunch? A couple of dollars? It’s totally worth it to reward constant, great service.

[train-time]

Originally Posted by EEpro

We try to live above our means as a culture. Everyone has a smart phone with an expensive data plan, fancy hair and new clothes, drives a late model vehicle.

In Las Vegas, the beauticians at the sport clips I took my boys to were all driving Cadillac Escalades and talking about their Hawaii vacations they took with their permanent fiancés.

There's nothing wrong with living your best life I guess, but the $20/hr millennials I know are not living a humble life and sure as hell aren't saving for retirement which will lead to a whole new $1T bail out scheme down the road.

Interesting observation. It's amazing how much the Forum has changed over the past dozen of years. Back in the day, it was all SS watches and it was all about the discount. I am surprised how it has tilted towards PM variants and Day-Dates in particular and many of the new members are considerably younger, millennials and Gen Z who seem be sporting Day-Dates.

I always thought that the younger generations would be the smart-watch crew but as you have said, they are driving the latest model pricey cars and wearing $50K watches. Times have changed. I wanted one back when I was in my 50's but always thought it was my father's watch, not so anymore and so much for retirement.

[SDGT3]

Well this is certainly a new trend… using self service kiosks and then being asking for a tip… and people are actually tipping but who?? Guilt much? Ridiculous!


https://www.wsj.com/articles/tipping...rports-c3e09f7

Some tipping researchers say that tips given to a machine may not reach human employees, because protections to tipped workers in the federal Fair Labor Standards Act don’t extend to machines. Lehigh University associate professor Holona Ochs, who co-wrote a book on tipping, says that the practice in self-service settings “exploits the high adherence to tipping norms as a way to generate more revenue for the company.”