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Old 14 October 2021, 11:13 AM   #31
Knappo 1307
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:15 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
We sold you the watch as new, it left our shop as new. I have a long history of selling on all the platforms and my reputation speaks for itself. You found us on our website and decided to deal directly which happens all the time. Many platforms charge restocking fees so nothing was illegal here.

I don’t know who Manhattan Buyers or Arthur Abramov is and why they got thrown into this mix, they have nothing to do with this.
Really? I think you've pretty much lost any and all credibility with the sh*t you pulled. Restocking fees only apply when the buyer changes their mind, not when the misrepresentation was on your end. Do the right thing and return all the funds.
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:23 AM   #33
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Hi,

For a long time - I really wanted to get a Rolex Explorer 1 - reference 214270, 39mm with an MK2 dial.
This model was discontinued by Rolex for the smaller 36mm. Nonetheless, I REALLY wanted the 39mm version and was ready to pay a premium.
I intended to wear the piece only on special occasions and wanted it NEW without ANY wear marks.
I found a few options in the US and decided to go for a dealer in NYC that goes under the following names:

AJlikeswatches
or
AJA Diamonds & Watches
or
Manhattan Buyers inc.
The business appears to be operated by: Arthur J. Abramov and Dennis Shamoff. They also have a Chrono24 page

With successful and pleasant transactions in the past - Chrono24 is my go to place when looking for a new watch.
I thought about completing the deal through Chrono24 this time as well - but was suggested by the dealer to go direct instead for a better price.
It turns out that this is a violation of Chrono24 rules but I honestly didn't know at the time.
Anyways, I decided to trust the dealer and go direct for the promise of a better price.
I explicitly mentioned to him how important it was to me for the watch to be NEW with absolutely ZERO signs of wear.
He reassured me that it's absolutely perfect and has NO signs of wear - "Nothing" as he said. So I wired the money ( 10,995$ ).

The box arrived in a few days. But after close inspection I immediately saw that the watch had obvious wear marks:
1. 3 Dings on the right lower lug.
2. 2 wide scratches on the case back.
3. A scratch on the bezel.
4. A wide scratch on the clasp.

Disappointed and upset - I immediately took pictures of the damage and contacted the dealer.
Instead of being apologetic about the watch having wear marks - he was dismissive and claimed the damages are minor.
He said: "These are microscopic" and suggested: "If you want I can buff them out for you".
I explained to him that "NEW" means absolutely no damage and that I want to return the watch.

At this point he said that accepting back the watch will involve a restocking fee of a 1000$.
I urged him to forgo the restocking fee because it's unlawful to charge a fee for a watch that was sold as NEW but turned out to have damage marks.
Unfortunately, this was to no vein and he insisted on the 1000$.

I sent him the watch and he refunded me a partial amount of: 10,000$.
I filled a complaint with NYC's department of commerce and they suggested me to file a lawsuit against the dealer in a small claims court.

At the moment of posting - the watch is still listed on Chrono24
As well as on the dealers private site

The Rolex Serial Number of the watch is: 9P0164W3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent_orange View Post
Hi,
Thanks for your feedback and support!
The card is dated to 2019 and doesn't have a name. It's originating from an AD in Portugal. During our conversation prior to the deal when I inquired about the origin of the watch - he said: "I don't buy from the general public - only on trade shows from ADs".

I guess he can argue a lot of things. But I asked him MANY times if the watch had ANY wear marks prior to sending him the money - and he reassured me that it doesn't. And also - the interpretation of "what NEW means" it's clearly explained on his own website as well as on Chrono24 of course. So legally, as far as NYC law is concerned - he cemented himself from all directions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
We sold you the watch as new, it left our shop as new. I have a long history of selling on all the platforms and my reputation speaks for itself. You found us on our website and decided to deal directly which happens all the time. Many platforms charge restocking fees so nothing was illegal here.

I rent an office from Manhattan Buyers, they have nothing to do with this issue they shouldn’t be involved in this. Just because we are on the same floor doesn’t mean they have anything to do with this.
Was it "like new" or "new"? It seems the OP wanted a new unworn watch, and that's what you have it advertised as. What showed up was clearly not new or unworn. And yet you charged him 1k for your false advertising or was it a mistake and you sent the wrong watch?
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:43 AM   #34
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He wanted an unworn watch that wasn’t polished. All new watches can have small handling marks it’s normal happens all the time. I sent him multiple pics prior to the sale from every angle. He liked the pictures and went ahead with the purchase. I’ve dealt with buyers remorse cases for nearly 20 years, this was a clear case of this just buyers remorse.
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:47 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by agent_orange View Post
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
You're are absolutely right. With hindsight - Chrono24 would've yielded a smoother transaction in this case. So I guess that I do deserve some punishment for trusting the dealer :)

But I will not leave it at rest.
I don't live in NYC. When this goes to Small Claims Court there'll be flight, hotel expenses, a lost work day involved - so the claim would be MUCH higher than the 995$ he made on my back.
I wish people were more honest...but for those who aren't - I'll be there to make them think twice next time.
I had a similar situation on eBay years ago. I called around and found an attorney to file it in small claims court for a nominal fee. I got my money back, paid his fee and never left my hometown. There are lawyers on every corner in New York. Call around. You have all the evidence that you need.
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Old 14 October 2021, 12:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches;11757141[B
]He wanted an unworn watch that wasn’t polished[/B]. All new watches can have small handling marks it’s normal happens all the time. I sent him multiple pics prior to the sale from every angle. He liked the pictures and went ahead with the purchase. I’ve dealt with buyers remorse cases for nearly 20 years, this was a clear case of this just buyers remorse.
I think you may need to reread the conversation between you two. Also small handling marks, don't look like the pictures he posted. A new unworn watch is exactly that, this bullshit of small handling marks isn't going to fly around here. You will lose in court, and you have likely lost several possible customers here. I'd do the right thing and return the buyers money, doesn't seem like it's buyers remorse it's more like false representation.
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Old 14 October 2021, 12:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knappo 1307 View Post
I think you may need to reread the conversation between you two. Also small handling marks, don't look like the pictures he posted. A new unworn watch is exactly that, this bullshit of small handling marks isn't going to fly around here. You will lose in court, and you have likely lost several possible customers here. I'd do the right thing and return the buyers money, doesn't seem like it's buyers remorse it's more like false representation.
agree Its just not right.
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Old 14 October 2021, 12:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knappo 1307 View Post
I think you may need to reread the conversation between you two. Also small handling marks, don't look like the pictures he posted. A new unworn watch is exactly that, this bullshit of small handling marks isn't going to fly around here. You will lose in court, and you have likely lost several possible customers here. I'd do the right thing and return the buyers money, doesn't seem like it's buyers remorse it's more like false representation.
X2.

AJlikeswatches, return the Op’s money.
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Old 14 October 2021, 01:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
He wanted an unworn watch that wasn’t polished. All new watches can have small handling marks it’s normal happens all the time. I sent him multiple pics prior to the sale from every angle. He liked the pictures and went ahead with the purchase. I’ve dealt with buyers remorse cases for nearly 20 years, this was a clear case of this just buyers remorse.
Do the right thing and return the buyer's full payment. You're only digging yourself deeper so far with what's presented here.
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Old 14 October 2021, 04:36 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
He wanted an unworn watch that wasn’t polished. All new watches can have small handling marks it’s normal happens all the time. I sent him multiple pics prior to the sale from every angle. He liked the pictures and went ahead with the purchase. I’ve dealt with buyers remorse cases for nearly 20 years, this was a clear case of this just buyers remorse.
GTFO.
You said the watch was new. Per your own description of what you consider "New and unused" it clearly isn't.



And now another buyer is surprised to be receiving the same "New" watch. Were you hoping to skim another $1K off of him when he returned it ?

And you went back and edited the details of "the people you share a floor with". Sketchy.

I hope this ends miserably for you.
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Old 14 October 2021, 05:10 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
We sold you the watch as new, it left our shop as new. I have a long history of selling on all the platforms and my reputation speaks for itself. You found us on our website and decided to deal directly which happens all the time. Many platforms charge restocking fees so nothing was illegal here.

I rent an office from Manhattan Buyers, they have nothing to do with this issue they shouldn’t be involved in this. Just because we are on the same floor doesn’t mean they have anything to do with this.
No one cares about your history - your reputation is good as your last deal.

Please answer this questions - ( it'll be a great rehearsal for court ):
1. "We sold you the watch as new"
Are you denying that you resold Funforall88 the watch AFTER I showed you it had obvious wear marks ?
2. Do you deny violating C24 rules by selling a watch with obvious wear marks as NEW ? (according to C24 NEW = BRAND NEW WITHOUT ANY SIGNS OF WEAR)

And please don't insult our intelligence about you "just" renting an office from Manhattan Buyers.
AJA Diamonds & Watches is owned by Arthur J. Abrams - he is actually the "AJ who likes watches" (though I bet he likes easy money much more...).
Arthur J. Abrams is also the owner of Manhattan Buyers.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-j-abrams-6aa16354/
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Old 14 October 2021, 05:59 PM   #42
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Some more digging in your "History" and "Reputation".
You must read the last review!!!
"Sad to see he has relisted the watch for sale with same defects"
Deja vu...
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Old 14 October 2021, 08:50 PM   #43
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AJlikeswatches Quote #1:
Quote:
I don’t know who Manhattan Buyers or Arthur Abramov is and why they got thrown into this mix, they have nothing to do with this.
AJlikeswatches Quote #2:
Quote:
I rent an office from Manhattan Buyers...
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Old 14 October 2021, 09:05 PM   #44
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Sounds like a shady seller and swindler at best.

OP I hope he does the right thing and gets you your money back. Having said that to go through court for $1K and all that fuss I would rather spend that time writing reviews and reporting him to the BBB. That will do far more damage then the $1K he owes you and is rightfully yours.
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Old 14 October 2021, 09:44 PM   #45
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Sounds like a shady seller and swindler at best.
OP I hope he does the right thing and gets you your money back. Having said that to go through court for $1K and all that fuss I would rather spend that time writing reviews and reporting him to the BBB. That will do far more damage then the $1K he owes you and is rightfully yours.
Thanks!
But why not do both?!
Hey it's a long flight from where I live to NYC...and I don't sleep well on airplanes - I can write many reviews on the way :)
Thanks for the tip about BBB - I'll do that.
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Old 14 October 2021, 09:54 PM   #46
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Will try to keep this thread alive for some time to ensure it gets maximum exposure. Sorry this happened OP.

Get another one, and enjoy! the 1k hurts, but even if it costs you 13k in long run to get the watch you want, it will be worth it. The Explorer is as good as it gets.
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Old 14 October 2021, 10:05 PM   #47
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Thanks for your support Brny11!
I'm also on a waiting list for the new 36mm with my local AD.
But the 39mm is the one I really always wanted...

Come court day - I'll wear one on each hand :)
Dennis Shammof (Also goes by Dennis Shaullof) will have great time explaining the "Buyers Remorse" theory...
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Old 14 October 2021, 10:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
We sold you the watch as new, it left our shop as new. I have a long history of selling on all the platforms and my reputation speaks for itself. You found us on our website and decided to deal directly which happens all the time. Many platforms charge restocking fees so nothing was illegal here.

I rent an office from Manhattan Buyers, they have nothing to do with this issue they shouldn’t be involved in this. Just because we are on the same floor doesn’t mean they have anything to do with this.

Sold watch as new. Watch was not new. Explicitly said no marks as that was important to the buyer. Had marks.

I hope you never sell a watch again here. Reputation is everything and I suspect you lost yours for 1000$. Reputation is why David can sell that same watch all day for 12-13k.

OP - make sure to post on WUS as well.
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Old 14 October 2021, 10:17 PM   #49
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https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/a...g-fee.5347466/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ajli...ng-fee.137413/
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Old 14 October 2021, 10:42 PM   #50
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What a nightmare. Apparently AJ doesn't like customers.
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:25 PM   #51
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To whom it may concern, we sent a New Watch to this buyer , I sent him multiple pictures of the watch.

Reasons we took a restocking fee*

1. Shipping and Insurance

2. Checking with watch makers and authenticator that parts, movement, crown, crystal, links were not switched out to aftermarket.

We went above and beyond for this customer, most Companies do not except returns period. We didn’t set out to take a restocking fee when we sold him this watch. We wanted to sell the watch, you don’t get rich from restocking fee’s. They’re plenty of people that buy watches and switch movements etc and then try to return the watch. We paid to fully inspect the watch and paid for shipping labels back and forth. The watch is in mint/new condition with no signs of wear. If you feel uncomfortable buying from Grey Market dealers do not, do yourself and Us a favor. We have plenty of clients that are thrilled with our watches and have nothing but good things to say about us.

PS we paid him back as soon as the watch was checked over minus a restocking fee of less than 10%. Say thank you Sir. We could’ve not refunded you period.

We always stand by our product and our business is be fully transparent with our clients.
No Fakes no replicas, no funny business, not now not ever. Items are sold as stated. Pictures are provided, you can even schedule a viewing to see the watch in person at location.
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:41 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent_orange View Post
Thanks for your support Brny11!
I'm also on a waiting list for the new 36mm with my local AD.
But the 39mm is the one I really always wanted...

Come court day - I'll wear one on each hand :)
Dennis Shammof (Also goes by Dennis Shaullof) will have great time explaining the "Buyers Remorse" theory...



I like your grit! I'm glad you are going to see this through. It's obvious the seller doesn't care about this at all or else they would have done some damage control, paid you, apologized, and ran away with their tail between their legs. Keep us updated.
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Old 14 October 2021, 11:43 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
To whom it may concern, we sent a New Watch to this buyer , I sent him multiple pictures of the watch.

Reasons we took a restocking fee*

1. Shipping and Insurance

2. Checking with watch makers and authenticator that parts, movement, crown, crystal, links were not switched out to aftermarket.

We went above and beyond for this customer, most Companies do not except returns period. We didn’t set out to take a restocking fee when we sold him this watch. We wanted to sell the watch, you don’t get rich from restocking fee’s. They’re plenty of people that buy watches and switch movements etc and then try to return the watch. We paid to fully inspect the watch and paid for shipping labels back and forth. The watch is in mint/new condition with no signs of wear. If you feel uncomfortable buying from Grey Market dealers do not, do yourself and Us a favor. We have plenty of clients that are thrilled with our watches and have nothing but good things to say about us.

PS we paid him back as soon as the watch was checked over minus a restocking fee of less than 10%. Say thank you Sir. We could’ve not refunded you period.

We always stand by our product and our business is be fully transparent with our clients.
No Fakes no replicas, no funny business, not now not ever. Items are sold as stated. Pictures are provided, you can even schedule a viewing to see the watch in person at location.
You are something special...
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Old 15 October 2021, 12:34 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
To whom it may concern, we sent a New Watch to this buyer , I sent him multiple pictures of the watch.

Reasons we took a restocking fee*

1. Shipping and Insurance

2. Checking with watch makers and authenticator that parts, movement, crown, crystal, links were not switched out to aftermarket.

We went above and beyond for this customer, most Companies do not except returns period. We didn’t set out to take a restocking fee when we sold him this watch. We wanted to sell the watch, you don’t get rich from restocking fee’s. They’re plenty of people that buy watches and switch movements etc and then try to return the watch. We paid to fully inspect the watch and paid for shipping labels back and forth. The watch is in mint/new condition with no signs of wear. If you feel uncomfortable buying from Grey Market dealers do not, do yourself and Us a favor. We have plenty of clients that are thrilled with our watches and have nothing but good things to say about us.

PS we paid him back as soon as the watch was checked over minus a restocking fee of less than 10%. Say thank you Sir. We could’ve not refunded you period.

We always stand by our product and our business is be fully transparent with our clients.
No Fakes no replicas, no funny business, not now not ever. Items are sold as stated. Pictures are provided, you can even schedule a viewing to see the watch in person at location.
1) And the buyer had to pay out of his pocket to ship and insure it back to you.
And if you didn't factor the shipping cost into the selling price of the watch, which of course you did, then you'd be an idiot.

2) So authenticate a watch you swear was brand new and direct from another trader ?
So if we are to believe this is something you actually do, (I don't), then your "authenticator" would have had to open up the watch to "authenticate" the movement.
So even less a "new" watch- now one with possibly broken factory seals/waterproofing for the next buyer.


Do keep posting, please.
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Old 15 October 2021, 12:55 AM   #55
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cant wait to see this case in the Peoples Court.. Put him on TV so people can see what he looks like!
They are always looking for great cases
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Old 15 October 2021, 01:33 AM   #56
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OP I'm glad and thankful you posted your experience with this seller.
I was just looking at one of the seller's listing and was about send a email for some questions. You saved me the trouble...

Sorry about your situation. Wishing you best of luck in court.
I know the court will be in your favor, for sure.
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Old 15 October 2021, 02:29 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
To whom it may concern, we sent a New Watch to this buyer , I sent him multiple pictures of the watch.

Reasons we took a restocking fee*

1. Shipping and Insurance

2. Checking with watch makers and authenticator that parts, movement, crown, crystal, links were not switched out to aftermarket.

We went above and beyond for this customer, most Companies do not except returns period. We didn’t set out to take a restocking fee when we sold him this watch. We wanted to sell the watch, you don’t get rich from restocking fee’s. They’re plenty of people that buy watches and switch movements etc and then try to return the watch. We paid to fully inspect the watch and paid for shipping labels back and forth. The watch is in mint/new condition with no signs of wear. If you feel uncomfortable buying from Grey Market dealers do not, do yourself and Us a favor. We have plenty of clients that are thrilled with our watches and have nothing but good things to say about us.

PS we paid him back as soon as the watch was checked over minus a restocking fee of less than 10%. Say thank you Sir. We could’ve not refunded you period.

We always stand by our product and our business is be fully transparent with our clients.
No Fakes no replicas, no funny business, not now not ever. Items are sold as stated. Pictures are provided, you can even schedule a viewing to see the watch in person at location.
Typical BS speech promoting yourself as the 'decent seller' that did nothing wrong. Only dodgy dealers do this. Pls answer the question everyone else is asking..... Why did you sell this watch to him while knowing that it is not what he wanted?? and pls read what's in bold in your reply.... Obviously Not true.
Dont put yourself in the same boat as all Grey market dealers.... There are some good ones that sell without lying.
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Old 15 October 2021, 02:43 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
To whom it may concern, we sent a New Watch to this buyer , I sent him multiple pictures of the watch.

Reasons we took a restocking fee*

1. Shipping and Insurance

2. Checking with watch makers and authenticator that parts, movement, crown, crystal, links were not switched out to aftermarket.

We went above and beyond for this customer, most Companies do not except returns period. We didn’t set out to take a restocking fee when we sold him this watch. We wanted to sell the watch, you don’t get rich from restocking fee’s. They’re plenty of people that buy watches and switch movements etc and then try to return the watch. We paid to fully inspect the watch and paid for shipping labels back and forth. The watch is in mint/new condition with no signs of wear. If you feel uncomfortable buying from Grey Market dealers do not, do yourself and Us a favor. We have plenty of clients that are thrilled with our watches and have nothing but good things to say about us.

PS we paid him back as soon as the watch was checked over minus a restocking fee of less than 10%. Say thank you Sir. We could’ve not refunded you period.

We always stand by our product and our business is be fully transparent with our clients.
No Fakes no replicas, no funny business, not now not ever. Items are sold as stated. Pictures are provided, you can even schedule a viewing to see the watch in person at location.
How can he keep saying that the watch is "in mint/new condition with no signs of wear."

"If you feel uncomfortable buying from Grey Market" - I feel VERY comfortable. Just NOT from AJA Diamonds & Watches or Manhattan Buyers.

Regarding you "paying for shipping labels back and forth" I'm presenting the audience a receipt for the shipment back - paid ENTRIRELY BY ME.
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Old 15 October 2021, 02:53 AM   #59
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This dude’s market must be elsewhere; he’ll never sell another watch here. All for $1k. Stoopid!


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Old 15 October 2021, 03:06 AM   #60
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Location: MN
Posts: 292
Wow - you purposely picked the shovel back up, traded it for a bigger shovel, and continue to dig furiously.

Any of us in business knows what it's like with returns...but...many of us also know that one single ugly mis-step can destroy years of positivity. Almost universally it's cheaper (MUCH) in the long run to make the customer happy than to pocket a few hundred dollars. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong - but it really doesn't matter.

Your market may be big enough to continue without customers and WIS's from the various forums (there are plenty who do), but this type of behavior/response if continued does not bode well for your business long term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlikeswatches View Post
To whom it may concern, we sent a New Watch to this buyer , I sent him multiple pictures of the watch.

Reasons we took a restocking fee*

1. Shipping and Insurance

2. Checking with watch makers and authenticator that parts, movement, crown, crystal, links were not switched out to aftermarket.

We went above and beyond for this customer, most Companies do not except returns period. We didn’t set out to take a restocking fee when we sold him this watch. We wanted to sell the watch, you don’t get rich from restocking fee’s. They’re plenty of people that buy watches and switch movements etc and then try to return the watch. We paid to fully inspect the watch and paid for shipping labels back and forth. The watch is in mint/new condition with no signs of wear. If you feel uncomfortable buying from Grey Market dealers do not, do yourself and Us a favor. We have plenty of clients that are thrilled with our watches and have nothing but good things to say about us.

PS we paid him back as soon as the watch was checked over minus a restocking fee of less than 10%. Say thank you Sir. We could’ve not refunded you period.

We always stand by our product and our business is be fully transparent with our clients.
No Fakes no replicas, no funny business, not now not ever. Items are sold as stated. Pictures are provided, you can even schedule a viewing to see the watch in person at location.
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