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Old 27 October 2008, 03:22 AM   #1
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An Argument For Routine Maintenance...

A lot of confusion surrounds when to get a mechanical watch cleaned and oiled....and folks typically say, I used to have one and it ran for decades without maintenance..

This could be true..watches did used to last, seemingly, forever. But there is a scientific/technical reason for this..

Early watches were slow beat movements. They beat at 18,000 BPH or 5 ticks per second. This means that the hairspring swung one complete arc, unlocking the pallet fork in one direction, and then back again, unlocking the fork in the other direction, causing the watch to tick, or move properly..

This is all caused by a mainspring that pulls on the gear-train constantly...the pallet jewels hold the escapement wheel in place and then locks and unlocks that wheel on each half swing of the hairspring, unwinding the mainspring.

Pretty simple...

But, as the quest for more stable and precise movements came about, along with better lubricants, it was found that faster beat movements were more stable, drifted less, and were easier to regulate. As these beats increased, the faster swing of almost twice as much in a 28,800 beat movement causes the oils to be slung off parts, and drain the mainspring power faster. The obvious result was a need for stronger, and longer mainsprings that exert more of a pull on the drive train to ensure a ~42-48 hr power reserve. In the case of super high beat movements such as the Zenith 36,000BPH 10 BPS movement, the mainspring is huge and the need for a more solid (less fluid) method of lubrication is paramount or it would beat itself to death in little time. It's just this need for different oils and larger mainsprings that Rolex reduced the speed on their Zenith modified movements so they could use their standard oils and parts in their watches..

So, in a nut shell: Today we have movements that move considerably faster, essentially throwing the lubricating oils around like never before, and we have stronger mainsprings pulling harder on the entire drive-train causing more need to ensure proper lubrication to avoid metal-to-metal disintegration of parts..

I think that it is more important than ever that we ensure that our mechanical, high-beat, watches get cleaned and oiled on a more regular basis than ever before.
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:26 AM   #2
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Very informative. My initial thoughts on the matter was that modern oils would be able to last longer but I can see now that I was very much mistaken. On purchasing my last watch (GMT 2 - c) the booklet recommended a service after five years which I have been planning to go along with.
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:27 AM   #3
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Good article

Is this what the five-year service is for? Does Rolex just lubricate your watch's gears?
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:28 AM   #4
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Thanks Larry!! Excellent observation, perfect delivery. This definitely sheds some light on why it is important to keep your timepiece maintained.
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:30 AM   #5
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But in the 1970s we had cars that lasted for 100k miles an that is all. Today they will get 3x the mileage and run 3x as long.

Have watches not improved too?
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:32 AM   #6
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Good article

Is this what the five-year service is for? Does Rolex just lubricate your watch's gears?
Thanks...

Actually, Rolex takes the watch completely apart, checks for wear on any parts, then oils the watch at all the key parts..

The major oiling points are the pivot jewels that all the axles rotate in...and the pallet slide needs grease, and the mainspring barrel needs oil, as well as the ends of the pallet jewels that do the holding, unlocking operation.. and dozens of other points.

What you might find at your local watch repair technician is a sonic cleaning and then just oiling of the pivot points..

So, sometimes you do get what you pay for...
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:34 AM   #7
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What is the cost of just a regular service VS the cost of service with replacing a gear or two that would wear from lack of service? What I'm saying is if Rolex is going to charge me $500 for an oiling and $700 for an oiling and a failure whats the point? Might as well take your chances No? You could have an oiling service then 2 years later have a gear or spring break and be in for still another $500+ service bill. If an oiling and cleaning was like $150.00 I could see doing it. Even my Dr. doesn't get $500 for an hour of his services and I'm sure as hell not going to give that to Rolex.
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:40 AM   #8
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But in the 1970s we had cars that lasted for 100k miles an that is all. Today they will get 3x the mileage and run 3x as long.

Have watches not improved too?
Early car engines wore out because the use of cast iron rings, combustion by products, and loose tolerances caused them to have a relatively known life.

Today, moly rings, computer designed tolerances, metallurgy, and modern lubricants; as well as different fuel formulas to reduce combustion by products have all resulted in increased life in modern power plants.

Watches are still pretty much the same as two centuries ago, but with better tolerances, materials and oils that allow the before mentioned capability to increase the speed, and therefore accuracy and precision in the new 28,800 beat movements..

But like the car analogy, routine oil changes and maintenance is critical to achieve these higher life-cycles.
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:44 AM   #9
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What is the cost of just a regular service VS the cost of service with replacing a gear or two that would wear from lack of service? What I'm saying is if Rolex is going to charge me $500 for an oiling and $700 for an oiling and a failure whats the point? Might as well take your chances No? You could have an oiling service then 2 years later have a gear or spring break and be in for still another $500+ service bill. If an oiling and cleaning was like $150.00 I could see doing it. Even my Dr. doesn't get $500 for an hour of his services and I'm sure as hell not going to give that to Rolex.
Interesting, and valid perspective..

I suppose it's like never going to the Dentist for a cleaning and check-up; waiting until a tooth has a big enough hole in it to warrant the cost of a trip. You could save the cost of those cleanings, and perhaps the cost of a crown or filling every couple of years could balance out...
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:49 AM   #10
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Interesting, and valid perspective..

I suppose it's like never going to the Dentist for a cleaning anc check-up; waiting until a tooth has a big enough hole in it to warrant the cost of a trip. You could save the cost of those cleanings, and perhaps the cost of a crown or filling every couple of years could balance out...
Indeed and lets not forget what a Rolex really is. It's just a watch.
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Old 27 October 2008, 03:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
Thanks...

Actually, Rolex takes the watch completely apart, checks for wear on any parts, then oils the watch at all the key parts..

The major oiling points are the pivot jewels that all the axles rotate in...and the pallet slide needs grease, and the mainspring barrel needs oil, as well as the ends of the pallet jewels that do the holding, unlocking operation.. and dozens of other points.

What you might find at your local watch repair technician is a sonic cleaning and then just oiling of the pivot points..

So, sometimes you do get what you pay for...
But don't you think $500-ish is a lot for an oiling? I have no problem with that (or else I wouldn't have bought my Rolex), but I just don't see where the money is going.

Would it cost more to have it tuned up every 5 years or only when something breaks?

Maybe I need to stop sounding so gosh darn cheap
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Old 27 October 2008, 04:04 AM   #12
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But don't you think $500-ish is a lot for an oiling? I have no problem with that (or else I wouldn't have bought my Rolex), but I just don't see where the money is going.

Would it cost more to have it tuned up every 5 years or only when something breaks?

Maybe I need to stop sounding so gosh darn cheap
Well...being cheap, and being frugal are not the same things..

I am not advocating a 500 dollar service every 5 years. There are plenty of old watchmakers, Rolex trained, who will do the job for much less. Typically though, the cost is double what they might charge for a "regular" watch..

I have several watches I rotate through so I am comfortable with 10 year service intervals... I would probably go ~7 if I wore it every day.

What I am saying is that the old days when a 50's or 60's Rolex is still ticking after no service at all, with little wear on the parts is gone..

What I am further saying is that Modern watches are operating at higher speeds and under more physical pressure (torque) than ever before.. Older watches had very little actual friction so could operate even without oils for quite a while.. The pull of modern mainsprings is considerably higher.. As an example.

The Omega co-axial 2500, which has had to be slowed down to 25,200 to operate, is still running so fast that the disintegration of the gear teeth is a well known phenomenon. (the original design of the co-axial was to operate at 18,000 BPH) Omega seems to have backed off their claim of 10 years without a service.
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Old 27 October 2008, 04:44 AM   #13
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Although $500 for an overhaul might sound expensive, here's what they're working with, and the lubricants required. And remember, the watch is completely disassembled to facilitate cleaning, inspection, and lubrication.
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg RolexOilChart7.jpg (72.2 KB, 1713 views)
File Type: jpg RolexOilChart15.jpg (47.1 KB, 1706 views)
File Type: jpg RolexOilChart14.jpg (58.4 KB, 1706 views)
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Old 27 October 2008, 04:49 AM   #14
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Al...

Post our Rolex Lubrication Chart over on the Reference Library board..

...............
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:06 AM   #15
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I just had my GMT 2 pepsi overhauled for $485. The Rolex trained watch maker at Ben

Quote:
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Although $500 for an overhaul might sound expensive, here's what they're working with, and the lubricants required. And remember, the watch is completely disassembled to facilitate cleaning, inspection, and lubrication.
Bridge Jewlers took the whole movement apart (as far as I know), re-oiled, timed, etc. No sonic b.s. Now it's working like new. New gaskets and a pressure test, and a polish of the case and bracelet. Also included, were three follow-up visits by me for regulating, adjusting of the clasp's safety and demagnetizing the watch. All of this backed by a 2 year warranty on the service. Worth every penny.
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:10 AM   #16
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I see a few things here:

1. Tools is 100% correct, the modern watch is more "technical" than an old pocket watch, as we make any system more critical the upkeep becomes even more important. That being said I would never neglect an old watch either....

2. I have zero question in my mind that rolex has priced their service not based upon cost but based upon what their studies show we will pay. Welcome to the joy of marketing; because of this others in the market price lower than Rolex but perhaps higher than they would otherwise. My guess is that a service should be 250-300 for an automatic watch, the rest is just "extra" mark up

3. When it comes to service I'm more likely going to be loyal to rolex.... in other words I have no real issue with GM dealers and if you are not dumb it's hard to get screwed in the GM, you pay a price and get something that is relitivly easy to verify the value of. With service, I can not accurately access an orginization or the job they do servicing the watch. So unless I am in a pretty big market where there are independent shops that are well know, (i.e. NYC), more than likely I will turn to rolex.
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:13 AM   #17
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Good read Larry. Thanks.
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:20 AM   #18
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What happens to the chronometer certificate once they pull it all apart like that? Wouldn't it have to undergo the whole testing process to once again be "officially certified"? Do They?
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:29 AM   #19
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Very informative!!!!Great post
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:29 AM   #20
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What happens to the chronometer certificate once they pull it all apart like that? Wouldn't it have to undergo the whole testing process to once again be "officially certified"? Do They?
excellent question
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:40 AM   #21
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What happens to the chronometer certificate once they pull it all apart like that? Wouldn't it have to undergo the whole testing process to once again be "officially certified"? Do They?
The chronometer certificate is meaningless...... well, not really, but almost.

Movements are submitted to COSC for a test of their capability... in mass.

In other words, there are racks and racks of watch movements, they are all rotated, heated, and cooled, and the results are either pass-fail. failed are regulated and sent back... They must pass for Rolex to be able to paint chronometer on the dial by Swiss law........nothing more.

The passed movements are fitted with dials, hands, self-wind modules, and installed in the watch case they are destined for....then they are re-regulated by Rolex, case-backs fitted, and shipped out...

COSC certification is a representation of it's capability; not an indication of it's accuracy...........once tested, they are never tested again..
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:42 AM   #22
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Quote:
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The chronometer certificate is meaningless...... well, not really, but almost.

Movements are submitted to COSC for a test of their capability... in mass.

In other words, there are racks and racks of watch movements, they are all rotated, heated, and cooled, and the results are either pass-fail. failed are regulated and sent back... They must pass for Rolex to be able to paint chronometer on the dial by Swiss law........nothing more.

The passed movements are fitted with dials, hands, self-wind modules, and installed in the watch case they are destined for....then they are re-regulated by Rolex, case-backs fitted, and shipped out...

COSC certification is a representation of it's capability; not an indication of it's accuracy...........once tested, they are never tested again..
Well said, Larry. After the service, it's the watchmaker's job to get the watch running up to COSC specs again.

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Old 27 October 2008, 05:50 AM   #23
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may be some watchmaker can tell me why they need to disassemble the watch before putting it back together n lubricating it?!?! why they dont wash it enbloc?






Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
A lot of confusion surrounds when to get a mechanical watch cleaned and oiled....and folks typically say, I used to have one and it ran for decades without maintenance..

This could be true..watches did used to last, seemingly, forever. But there is a scientific/technical reason for this..

Early watches were slow beat movements. They beat at 18,000 BPH or 5 ticks per second. This means that the hairspring swung one complete arc, unlocking the pallet fork in one direction, and then back again, unlocking the fork in the other direction, causing the watch to tick, or move properly..

This is all caused by a mainspring that pulls on the gear-train constantly...the pallet jewels hold the escapement wheel in place and then locks and unlocks that wheel on each half swing of the hairspring, unwinding the mainspring.

Pretty simple...

But, as the quest for more stable and precise movements came about, along with better lubricants, it was found that faster beat movements were more stable, drifted less, and were easier to regulate. As these beats increased, the faster swing of almost twice as much in a 28,800 beat movement causes the oils to be slung off parts, and drain the mainspring power faster. The obvious result was a need for stronger, and longer mainsprings that exert more of a pull on the drive train to ensure a ~42-48 hr power reserve. In the case of super high beat movements such as the Zenith 36,000BPH 10 BPS movement, the mainspring is huge and the need for a more solid (less fluid) method of lubrication is paramount or it would beat itself to death in little time. It's just this need for different oils and larger mainsprings that Rolex reduced the speed on their Zenith modified movements so they could use their standard oils and parts in their watches..

So, in a nut shell: Today we have movements that move considerably faster, essentially throwing the lubricating oils around like never before, and we have stronger mainsprings pulling harder on the entire drive-train causing more need to ensure proper lubrication to avoid metal-to-metal disintegration of parts..

I think that it is more important than ever that we ensure that our mechanical, high-beat, watches get cleaned and oiled on a more regular basis than ever before.
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Old 27 October 2008, 05:50 AM   #24
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Another great read Larry, thanks for the information.
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Old 27 October 2008, 06:13 AM   #25
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Reading your artical has put my thoughts into a totally different view. Thanks for the info.
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Old 27 October 2008, 06:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
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So, in a nut shell: Today we have movements that move considerably faster, essentially throwing the lubricating oils around like never before, and we have stronger mainsprings pulling harder on the entire drive-train causing more need to ensure proper lubrication to avoid metal-to-metal disintegration of parts..

I think that it is more important than ever that we ensure that our mechanical, high-beat, watches get cleaned and oiled on a more regular basis than ever before.
That's exactly why the last time mine was torn down I had baffles installed in the pan! Cuts down on the foaming problem too.
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Old 27 October 2008, 06:41 AM   #27
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Vanessa's threads and posts on the subject were enough to convince me. The damage she has witnessed from watches run well past the suggested service interval was all I need to read.
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Old 27 October 2008, 07:16 AM   #28
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Good food for thought, Larry. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 27 October 2008, 07:25 AM   #29
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Great information thanks!
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Old 27 October 2008, 07:45 AM   #30
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nice post..thanks for sharing.
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