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Old 27 December 2019, 09:02 PM   #1
ChunkyMunkyLuva
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Hold out for Sub or go for Panerai?

Looking to purchase my first 'proper' watch, and have sights set on a Sub Date. I've been on waiting lists for a few ADs for around a year or so, but am not holding out much hope in getting one from an AD given my lack of purchase history (and I won't be able to bundle up with another model). Don't want to purchase above MSRP as want it to be an investment, so is it worth going for a classic Panerai - potentially Luminor Marina? Appreciate that it will likely lose value straight away if purchased new, but also don't want to wait 3/4 years to actually get my first watch.. Any views much appreciated.
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Old 27 December 2019, 09:19 PM   #2
jestrada
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I dont understand, you want to purchase the Sub date at SRP because you want it to be an “investment” yet you’re contemplating on buying a Panerai instead which you know has pretty poor resale on most models right now...

If “investment” is the most important factor for you in choosing your first proper watch, then my advice is to stick to Rolex and don’t settle on another brand just because it’s easily attainable. It’ll really test you patience but it’ll be all the more satisfying once you get the watch that you truly desire at the cost you are willing to pay.

That being said, going grey for a sub date, if you can find one at around 500-1k above SRP, is still a pretty good deal if you factor in taxes and your time waiting on the AD.



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Old 27 December 2019, 09:26 PM   #3
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And lastly, going pre-owned for a Panerai, if you’ve set your heart that you want one right now instead of waiting or going grey on a Sub date, should lessen the impact or negate altogether the depreciation hit IF you wanna go the pre-owned route for your first proper watch (nothing wrong with that, IMO).


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Old 27 December 2019, 09:39 PM   #4
ChunkyMunkyLuva
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Thanks - and appreciate that it's a bit conflicting to go for a Panerai new even if it will lose money. My thought process was that I'd be happy to pay more / lose a bit to get it new, but don't want to buy second hand Rolex to then lose money on it. I'll think I'll stick with the Rolex hunt though - thanks for the input.
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Old 27 December 2019, 10:12 PM   #5
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The heart always wants what it wants. I’d hold out for an AD or go gray on the Submariner.

If you’re set on the Submariner, I don’t think a Luminor (or insert another reference here) will suffice.

FWIW, I do own both brands and love them for different reasons.
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Old 27 December 2019, 10:41 PM   #6
1William
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I would get aggressive with the hunt for Submariner and forget about having to paying over retail. You will pay what the market commands and you will negotiate the best deal possible. The notion that a watch is an investment is something many owners/collectors use to justify spending a lot of money on items they are not an investment. At best,you will break even on a sale or flip but you will have the pleasure of ownership and wear for as long as you want the watch. Get off the sidelines and go buy your Submariner. You will not regret it. Then go get a Panerai/Omega/Grand Seiko,etc. Good luck.
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Old 27 December 2019, 11:36 PM   #7
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“want it to be an investment”

Excellent strategy !

Considering the current Rolex market trend will continue forever, I would suggest acquiring loans , and/or credit cards to purchase as many as possible !



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Old 28 December 2019, 07:14 AM   #8
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One of the reasons I’m finding Rolex so unappealing, and so glad to have Panerai, an Omega plus a few other less desirable pieces.
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Old 28 December 2019, 07:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRIDES View Post
“want it to be an investment”

Excellent strategy !

Considering the current Rolex market trend will continue forever, I would suggest acquiring loans , and/or credit cards to purchase as many as possible !



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Old 28 December 2019, 07:30 AM   #10
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I mean, do you actually care which watch you like? You can buy a Sub on the grey market for just a slight premium and have it in your hands tomorrow. Unless you like the feeling of anxiously waiting for months, or you like the feeling of wearing a watch that is and always be your second choice. If you really like the sub then who cares what it will cost in 20 years. You will have 20 years of happiness. Can you put a price tag on that?
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Old 28 December 2019, 04:33 PM   #11
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You will have 20 years of happiness. Can you put a price tag on that?
Sometimes i believe that the owners happiness only depends on the increasing value (of a Rolex.)
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Old 28 December 2019, 04:40 PM   #12
epicurus
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Sometimes i believe that the owners happiness only depends on the increasing value (of a Rolex.)
Yup...its sad. Buy what you like! Buy watches that you love to wear and then prices dont matter....no matter where the market goes. The end.
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Old 30 December 2019, 12:26 PM   #13
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They’re very different watches....

Which one do you like more???

You want to play with straps then Panerai...
Want to have the most iconic diver then a Sub.
I would go for the Sub as my first watch.....

As an investment, a Watch is almost never an investment,
You will loose more money with the Pam...plus it’s difficult to sell used in case you need to.
It kind of sounds you will never sell whatever you and only you decide to get...

Good luck in your Hunt!!!


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Old 30 December 2019, 02:05 PM   #14
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I'd had a couple Omega and Sinn watches by the time I bought my first "luxury" Swiss piece and ponied up for my PAM111. This was before Omega prices skyrocketed (Rolex as well) and you could pick up a nice Speedy Pro for under 2K. Cost wise it was twice what I'd paid for my most expensive watch at that point. I instantly fell in love with the brand and embraced the whole strap collecting culture. Never looked back. I tried a Sea Dweller around 2007 and wasn't a fan due to it being on the small side for me so I stuck with what I already liked for a while. I ended up expanding my Panerai collection over the past 12 years. I gave Rolex another shot and came into a DSSD and SD43 within the past 12 months. I'm a huge fan of both brands and honestly don't find anything lacking in any of my watches (I dont absolutely need a date complication). If I could have just one watch I'd be happy with anything I own from either brand. That being said, I think my most practical and flexible watch is my SD43 and the watch I have the most fun with is either my PAM111 or PAM372 because of the whole strap thing. Go with whatever you like most, you'll be happy either way. Just know you're probably going to wind up with both at some point if we share similar tastes. Be patient with Rolex in terms of getting one from an AD or be prepared to pay around a $1,000 premium or so for most of the SS Rolex sport models. The fantastic thing about Panerai is that their grey and used market prices are significantly lower than retail, I've got some of mine for around half price. One you get one at the right price, they hold value. I think the closest I've come to retail was 37%-40% off.
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Old 2 January 2020, 06:33 AM   #15
Megalobyte
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An alternative is the new omega Seamaster pro. It’s an excellent alternative to the much harder to get sub and if you buy in the secondary, less than half the price. And buying it this way, I don’t see you losing much on it down the road.
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Old 2 January 2020, 08:27 AM   #16
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All the sound advice has been written above

With regards to investment; you’re just better off buying what you want; but the hard part is if your tastes change and the market has different t tastes than you

I love Panerai and my first “proper” watch was a pre-owned 233 dot. I thought it was better to buy a pre owned 233 than a new 320; etc etc.

All the panerai I have owned I have purchased pre-owned; but it helps I live near big cities so the used market is pretty accessible for F2F transactions. Either way you have to become somewhat of an expert on fake Panerai depending on the complications if you buy pre owned. At bare minimum you should buy with box and papers.

With regards to Rolex; if you more or less like a specific model you can either pay market price (above retail as suggested) or wait for your call. The only issue is you pay a premium and find out that you don’t like it and the market changes favor... but that’s currently not happening with regards to SS models.

If you think your estimate is 3-4 years waiting than I would suggest buying a preowned Panerai if you know which model you like and than when you get the call; get your Rolex.

Good luck!
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Old 5 January 2020, 11:47 PM   #17
htc8p
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If you’re giving up on the wait, panerai isn’t a bad alternative but just stick to the base models


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Old 6 January 2020, 01:38 AM   #18
nick c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandrea View Post
The heart always wants what it wants. I’d hold out for an AD or go gray on the Submariner.

If you’re set on the Submariner, I don’t think a Luminor (or insert another reference here) will suffice.

FWIW, I do own both brands and love them for different reasons.
Nicely said.
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