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Old 31 March 2017, 01:41 AM   #1
diverdoug
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Your accuracy expectations.

In a recent thread discussing accuracy, I mentioned that I have a SuC that gains less than 0.2 seconds per day, and a DSSD that will lose about 1.5 seconds per day. I mentioned that I was pleased with this level of precision. Another member stated that I should not be pleased. I know that Rolex has a standard of +/- 2 seconds per day. I was wondering what degree of precision other owners found personally acceptable. Thanks for your opinions.
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Old 31 March 2017, 01:48 AM   #2
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+\- 15 seconds would prompt a problem and service imo.
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Old 31 March 2017, 01:50 AM   #3
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With a new watch Id expect -2/+2 or its not meeting an advertised specification for the product. Older I'd say COSC for 5 year old watches and then its probably service time anyway to bring it back into spec.
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Old 31 March 2017, 02:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diverdoug View Post
In a recent thread discussing accuracy, I mentioned that I have a SuC that gains less than 0.2 seconds per day, and a DSSD that will lose about 1.5 seconds per day. I mentioned that I was pleased with this level of precision. Another member stated that I should not be pleased. I know that Rolex has a standard of +/- 2 seconds per day. I was wondering what degree of precision other owners found personally acceptable. Thanks for your opinions.
What the new spec means in the real world first the bare uncased movement is tested at the COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 seconds over any 24 hour period.And in the first 10 days of testing the movement could vary by up to 10 seconds on any single 24 hour period and still pass the COSC test to get its certification. After movement is shipped back to Rolex perhaps stored for weeks, months, or even a year before its matched to a case.Rolex then further tests on a timing machine to this new -2+2 AVERAGE spec,what does this mean well at time of testing movement did comply to the new spec.But this is not a guarantee movement will perform exactly the same every day for life.It's not like they have put some sort of magic phoo phoo dust in the case to make them run better .As most movements are basically the same as the 3 series first brought out in 1988,fact all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could with careful regulation match this new average daily spec, as it's all down to how well the movement is regulated ,and how the watch owners wearing habits reflect in the daily running of the watch.

Gravity affects mechanical watches the most thats why they are tested in 5 different positions.And in those different positions there will be very slight deviations in the timekeeping.Remember this the escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 times.On the wrist the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction,mainspring power-reserve, shocks, and so on.The fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep perfect time, very close yes but perfect no and remember there are 86400 seconds in a day so will 2 seconds difference really matter only for the marketing.Rolex put this new spec mainly because Omega advertised it first, marketing or sometimes brain washing is a marvelous tool .Myself check my wearing watch about once a month even then its seldom out by a minute.
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Old 31 March 2017, 02:57 AM   #5
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It's not like they have put some sort of magic phoo phoo dust in the case to make them run better
I think it's the parachrom hairspring that makes the newer watches more accurate and reliable, definitely not magic phoo phoo dust.
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:03 AM   #6
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I have never taken the time to check for COSC on mine. I wind it every month or so and if it's a cpl minutes off here and there I move the hands accordingly..... Not a big deal.
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:12 AM   #7
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The -2/+2 seconds window per 24 hours leaves me impressed every time I think about it. I can seriously not wish for more consistent time keeping in a mechanical watch.
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:25 AM   #8
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I wind it every month or so and if it's a cpl minutes off here and there I move the hands accordingly..... Not a big deal.
This.
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:32 AM   #9
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To each their own. I grew up in the COSC era of -4/+6 and would probably not worry much if my watch was keeping that kind of time. But, with the -2/+2 committment, it is much more satisfying for one's OCD nature to see your Rolex chugging along in that range.

This said, the accuracy performance committment is an average. Checking every day will drive you nuts. I see where I am every couple of weeks and adjust no more often that that......since I am currently -1.4 to -1.6 per day, I have been adjusting about once per month.
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I think it's the parachrom hairspring that makes the newer watches more accurate and reliable, definitely not magic phoo phoo dust.
The parachrom is just a hairspring and nothing more, it was first introduced in 2000 with introduction of the cal 4130 in the Daytona.But then is was a grey colour now its blue by a chemical process, and the parachom was in many Rolex watches before this new marketing -2+2 spec.
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
The parachrom is just a hairspring and nothing more, it was first introduced in 2000 with introduction of the cal 4130 in the Daytona.But then is was a grey colour now its blue by a chemical process, and the parachom was in many Rolex watches before this new marketing -2+2 spec.
OK, well it must be something else, as there seems little doubt that the accuracy has improved almost to an unsurpassable degree.

Personally I think it's utterly extraordinary that my new OP39 is within a second a day, and has been since I got it 6 or 7 weeks ago. None of my three old subs (1680, 5513 and 16610) can do that.
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:52 AM   #12
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Minus anything or plus more than 4-5 sec/day would mean regulation/service imo...
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Old 31 March 2017, 03:56 AM   #13
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Explorer II is 8 seconds in 3 weeks and two days. Althought i wear it in different altitudes a lot so it might decelerate and accelerate movement.
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:04 AM   #14
diverdoug
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Where can I buy phoo phoo dust and how much do I need per watch?
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diverdoug View Post
In a recent thread discussing accuracy, I mentioned that I have a SuC that gains less than 0.2 seconds per day, and a DSSD that will lose about 1.5 seconds per day. I mentioned that I was pleased with this level of precision. Another member stated that I should not be pleased. I know that Rolex has a standard of +/- 2 seconds per day. I was wondering what degree of precision other owners found personally acceptable. Thanks for your opinions.


I just don't have the interest to do more than set my time with the Watchville app...and go. If my watch is off by a few minutes or 5 - usually because I mis-set it...I may notice.

How do you get to the level of knowing you are a 1/2 second off?
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:32 AM   #16
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I'm alright with -2/+5 otherwise I'll go and get it regulated
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:34 AM   #17
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My current Rolex rotation of 2 watches are running at +1, very accurate.
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:34 AM   #18
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I just don't have the interest to do more than set my time with the Watchville app...and go. If my watch is off by a few minutes or 5 - usually because I mis-set it...I may notice.

How do you get to the level of knowing you are a 1/2 second off?
I listen to BBC Radio 4 quite a lot, and nearly every hour, on the hour, there's a time signal.
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:35 AM   #19
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OK, well it must be something else, as there seems little doubt that the accuracy has improved almost to an unsurpassable degree.

Personally I think it's utterly extraordinary that my new OP39 is within a second a day, and has been since I got it 6 or 7 weeks ago. None of my three old subs (1680, 5513 and 16610) can do that.
Regulation that's where most of accuracy comes from even the Chinese made Seagull ST 19 movement when regulated correctly can run a consistent +2 seconds a day cost of watch around $60.
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All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

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Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

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Old 31 March 2017, 04:35 AM   #20
kauffee
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OK, well it must be something else, as there seems little doubt that the accuracy has improved almost to an unsurpassable degree.
It's probably a lot a combination of lots of things (hairspring, materials, lubricants) but they are tried and true movements and if you put in the effort to regulate them accurately it can be done. Didn't the Hodinkee article where they toured rolex mention that they have a camera that takes 2 pictures of the dial 24 hours apart and if they don't exactly match they re-regulate?
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:45 AM   #21
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I listen to BBC Radio 4 quite a lot, and nearly every hour, on the hour, there's a time signal.


They announce in 1/2 second increments? Or are you eye-balling your seconds hand?
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:55 AM   #22
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They announce in 1/2 second increments? Or are you eye-balling your seconds hand?
There are six pips at one-second intervals, i.e. a five second countdown to the hour. If I'm not doing anything else, like driving, I'll glance at the watch, why not?
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:57 AM   #23
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Regulation that's where most of accuracy comes from even the Chinese made Seagull ST 19 movement when regulated correctly can run a consistent +2 seconds a day cost of watch around $60.
I don't think that can possibly be true, can it? Could you post a link to your source on this one?
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Old 31 March 2017, 04:59 AM   #24
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What the new spec means in the real world first the bare uncased movement is tested at the COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 seconds over any 24 hour period.And in the first 10 days of testing the movement could vary by up to 10 seconds on any single 24 hour period and still pass the COSC test to get its certification. After movement is shipped back to Rolex perhaps stored for weeks, months, or even a year before its matched to a case.Rolex then further tests on a timing machine to this new -2+2 AVERAGE spec,what does this mean well at time of testing movement did comply to the new spec.But this is not a guarantee movement will perform exactly the same every day for life.It's not like they have put some sort of magic phoo phoo dust in the case to make them run better .As most movements are basically the same as the 3 series first brought out in 1988,fact all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could with careful regulation match this new average daily spec, as it's all down to how well the movement is regulated ,and how the watch owners wearing habits reflect in the daily running of the watch.



Gravity affects mechanical watches the most thats why they are tested in 5 different positions.And in those different positions there will be very slight deviations in the timekeeping.Remember this the escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 times.On the wrist the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction,mainspring power-reserve, shocks, and so on.The fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep perfect time, very close yes but perfect no and remember there are 86400 seconds in a day so will 2 seconds difference really matter only for the marketing.Rolex put this new spec mainly because Omega advertised it first, marketing or sometimes brain washing is a marvelous tool .Myself check my wearing watch about once a month even then its seldom out by a minute.


This! I personally don't care. I'm happy with some of my vintage that are off a few minutes per day. I just enjoy wearing and looking at them.


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Old 31 March 2017, 05:03 AM   #25
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This! I personally don't care. I'm happy with some of my vintage that are off a few minutes per day. I just enjoy wearing and looking at them.


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x2 I took half a lifetime to get here and at 39 I'm choosing to not sweat the small stuff. only OCD about my underwear and socks matching.....
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Old 31 March 2017, 05:05 AM   #26
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This! I personally don't care. I'm happy with some of my vintage that are off a few minutes per day. I just enjoy wearing and looking at them.
It all depends on the watch. I don't expect even COSC from my 5513 and 1680, and am pleasantly surprised when they manage it. I do expect a lot more precision from PP, FPJ and contemporary Rolex because these brands market themselves, at least partially, on their accuracy.
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Old 31 March 2017, 05:23 AM   #27
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x2 I took half a lifetime to get here and at 39 I'm choosing to not sweat the small stuff. only OCD about my underwear and socks matching.....
Agreed. There are more important things to worry about than a handful of seconds.

I mean, why stress over it. Let alone incur the inconvenience and expense of sending the watch for regulation. Eventually it will likely fall out of your desired accuracy range, and you send for regulation again.

Even if you did a random sampling of members at a specific moment in time who were OCD about accuracy, I would be willing to bet while all would likely respond with the same "minute" i.e., 10:31, odds are the second hand reporting would be all over the place.

So, to that point, only when my watches (and each runs fast to a varying degree) are off by a couple of minutes will I then re-set, but in no way do I have the need, desire or inclination to track daily for seconds.

I bought my watches for the enjoyment I get out of wearing them, and no to turn them into a daily chore to track accuracy.
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Old 31 March 2017, 05:28 AM   #28
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I bought my watches for the enjoyment I get out of wearing them, and no to turn them into a daily chore to track accuracy.
It's not a chore if you listen to the radio news on the hour. It's quite fun to see how various watches perform, actually. I don't bother resetting because I'll usually switch to another watch before any of them are >30 sec off.
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Old 31 March 2017, 05:46 AM   #29
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I just don't have the interest to do more than set my time with the Watchville app...and go. If my watch is off by a few minutes or 5 - usually because I mis-set it...I may notice.

How do you get to the level of knowing you are a 1/2 second off?
Well after 5 days it was 1 second fast, after 10 days it was 2 seconds fast. after 30 days it is now 6 seconds fast. So on average I know it is gaining about 0.2 seconds per day. I compare it to the time on the GPS in my plane. Similarly, My DSSD will lose about 1.5 seconds per day. This precision level seemed more than adequate to me, but another member questioned my satisfaction with the performance of my watches. being a noob, I wanted to determine if most were OK with COSC qualifying precision / Rolex guidelines or other. From what I see here, I feel I am still pleased with the precision of my watches. Thanks guys!
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Old 31 March 2017, 05:51 AM   #30
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I would not be happy with any of my watches running more than (-2/+2). They are currently running +1 to +2 per day. This is good enough for me, but I wouldn't take them in unless they got to +4-6. That would be fine for a watch that is worn occasionally, but not a daily one. It would drive me crazy if within 3 days one of my watches was 15 seconds ahead or something like that.
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