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Old 7 May 2021, 11:57 AM   #1
Cryptoconniption
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Buying a 14060 Submariner - need advice

Hi guys, I found three no date subs I'm interested in from the same dealer and all come with the dealer's one year warranty. All are in excellent condition and are circa 2000.

One is $9,500, box, hashtag but no papers

One is $10,400, box, hashtag, but no papers. It comes with a service card (I assume from Rolex but need to find out) from just two months ago. (This could be good or could mean the watch had a problem?)

One is $12,600 and comes with box, all papers including the warranty card.

I still need to find out if any are polished, which is something I don't want.

I'm not buying this to flip but will probably want to sell for something else in a few years when I get bored. How desirable it it to have the papers? How about the recent service card? Given the details outlined, which would you go for? I can afford any of them but I'm not a rich guy so the $9,500 watch looks pretty nice right now.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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Old 7 May 2021, 12:18 PM   #2
SirOfVold
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I trade my watches constantly and having a box and papers is always going to net you a much easier transaction on the back end. If the one at 10k is a Rolex service paper or at least rolli works or something like that then may be the one to go with. I’d say snag the one at 9plus but if you know you’re gonna move it def get some sort of papers and make your life easier on the other side.


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Old 7 May 2021, 12:21 PM   #3
Gab27
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I can almost guarantee you they are all polished (i.e., cosmetically refinished) to some extent beyond the initial finishing that was done when the watch was new. The term "unpolished" is generally a bit misleading as all Rolexes are polished, and a mighty many of the used Rolex watches will at least be touched up, as most buyers don't like purchasing a watch with scratches/obvious cosmetic defects. The issue arises not when a watch is polished but when it is polished improperly. Then you may see things like distorted reflections, uneven lugs, blunted crown guards, loss of chamfers, rounding of edges, severely faded clasp logo, overly light, heavy, or crooked brush lines, etc.

A service card is not indicative of a problem for a watch that age as anything made in 2000 will have likely had one or more services by now. Knowing the last time each was serviced is of benefit IMO as the price of a full overhaul is not inexpensive and generally not a rapid process--you can get some quick and dirty idea of the movement health from knowing the amplitude and beat error, although that isn't something a seller will necessarily disclose. Additionally, it's also good to have an idea of how much wear each bracelet has IMHO, as one of these may have more or less 'stretch' than the others.

I can't speak to the value side of things, but I personally prefer to purchase a watch that does have papers. I simply like having them and I also like being able to use them as documentation when insuring the watch.

But I'm far from an expert so these are just my notes/observations.
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Old 7 May 2021, 12:22 PM   #4
rmagoo57
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Since they are all 20 ish years old, they will be due for their 2nd service. Option 2 is all set. Option 1 is probably due for one which is reflected in the lower price. So, 1 and 2 are a wash after a service. Option 3 at 12.6k should be in pristine condition.

I would pick 2 or 3 depending on condition. They are probably all polished.
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Old 8 May 2021, 10:47 AM   #5
Cryptoconniption
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Thanks, guys. Looks like the $10,400 is the winner. I'll post pics when I get it for critiques.
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Old 8 May 2021, 10:41 PM   #6
HarryFlashman
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I’m guessing you are looking at DavidSW? I’d feel pretty safe buying any from him. The 12K+ is priced higher because it is a “4-liner” with a random serial number.
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Old 9 May 2021, 12:29 AM   #7
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Old 9 May 2021, 11:28 AM   #8
Cryptoconniption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryFlashman View Post
I’m guessing you are looking at DavidSW? I’d feel pretty safe buying any from him. The 12K+ is priced higher because it is a “4-liner” with a random serial number.
It was on that site. However, I now think the reason the others were lower priced is that they have service dials since only the expensive one was listed as an "M" and the others don't have tritium. I have to call on Monday. The expensive one was just sold, btw.
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Old 9 May 2021, 11:44 AM   #9
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So here’s the deal with polishing and touching a Rolex watch up. Unless you buy it from the original owner who has owned it since new - almost all will be polished or touched up. Bracelets always. Cases sometimes. Dealers are not going to sell a scratched up watch for 10k to the average buyer. What you have to be vigilant for is a bad polishing job which has been described above. With 14060 you will see a loss of the chamfered edges on the case and the spring bars will start to poke out of the holes (for models w lug holes).

To buy vintage watches correctly you really have to know what your doing. Service dials, hands and even crystals can affect value immensely. I prefer to buy my watches new and scratch them up myself!

It is crazy that a 14060 is almost $2k more than a new model but i do love that model as well! I don’t think you will be disappointed. I just remember when they sold for $4k! Urgh!


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Old 9 May 2021, 11:49 AM   #10
HarryFlashman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptoconniption View Post
It was on that site. However, I now think the reason the others were lower priced is that they have service dials since only the expensive one was listed as an "M" and the others don't have tritium. I have to call on Monday. The expensive one was just sold, btw.
DavidSW is held in the highest esteem amongst trusted sellers on TRF.

Both the 14060s have the correct dial - “Swiss Made” super luminova is expected for both A and P serial watches. Both are 14060Ms, even if he just listed them as 14060.

For your purpose, I’d go with the one serviced in March 2021 by an RSC. That’s a good value, and the watch should run well for a long time.

The “more expensive” one sold quickly because it is newer, and it has a number of minor nuances that super super fans get excited about, but which are hard to otherwise notice, and which aren’t necessarily worth the premium for someone who just wants to rock a aluminum bezel submariner.

Good luck!
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Old 9 May 2021, 11:57 AM   #11
4vCoupe
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I remember when I paid a premium for a clean 2 liner. I thought I was crazy to pay $8k, now it’s not so bad. I also remember trying on a brand new random serial 4 liner at the AD, my wife was with me and told me to get it. Sad to say I didn’t listen to her, it was $6,300.


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Old 9 May 2021, 12:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryFlashman View Post
DavidSW is held in the highest esteem amongst trusted sellers on TRF.

Both the 14060s have the correct dial - “Swiss Made” super luminova is expected for both A and P serial watches. Both are 14060Ms, even if he just listed them as 14060.

For your purpose, I’d go with the one serviced in March 2021 by an RSC. That’s a good value, and the watch should run well for a long time.

The “more expensive” one sold quickly because it is newer, and it has a number of minor nuances that super super fans get excited about, but which are hard to otherwise notice, and which aren’t necessarily worth the premium for someone who just wants to rock a aluminum bezel submariner.

Good luck!
And I would pick the one for less money and have it serviced yourself (If it needs it) and skip the polish. The one that has recently been serviced seems to have had a harder life. For some reason the outside of several lugs have been rounded off... Maybe they were beat up or chipped. And the bracelet has some stretch, the coronet on the clasp is kind of soft... Just a few things.

And yeah, the more expensive one was a 4-line version which do go for more and was a random serial which were the last produced. These and V serials seem to have a bit more value (V serials were the last serials before random serial numbers so are desirable to some. Random serials on 14060's were the last and some have a Parachrom hairspring which is desirable to some)

I can barely believe that the prices on these have doubled since I bought mine 2&1/2 years ago...
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Old 9 May 2021, 01:45 PM   #13
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Buy the cheapest one, send it to RSC


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Old 10 May 2021, 01:14 PM   #14
Cryptoconniption
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Thanks again, guys. I pulled the trigger on a mint condition full papers 14060 Swiss only with luminova - the version just before the M. Not from DavidSW though. I'm excited!
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Old 10 May 2021, 01:28 PM   #15
csaltphoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptoconniption View Post
Thanks again, guys. I pulled the trigger on a mint condition full papers 14060 Swiss only with luminova - the version just before the M. Not from DavidSW though. I'm excited!
Post pics when you get it!
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Old 10 May 2021, 01:40 PM   #16
Gab27
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Congrats!
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Old 11 May 2021, 10:10 AM   #17
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Old 11 May 2021, 11:41 AM   #18
Rick_Nashville
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Originally Posted by Cryptoconniption View Post
Thanks again, guys. I pulled the trigger on a mint condition full papers 14060 Swiss only with luminova - the version just before the M. Not from DavidSW though. I'm excited!
Nice find. Congrats! I like all iterations of the 14060. It's a totally cool, totally badass watch. Looking forward to the pics.
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Old 11 May 2021, 11:45 AM   #19
Alex369
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Polished = no big deal

Over polished = not good

(btw...I have a 14060m 4-line and absolutely love it!)
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