Another shady AD

[Carry The Interest]

Originally Posted by rominvicta

A Greek way of reasoning .... he just wanted to find an excuse for ripping you off.

Really not necessary :-\

Agree that what this dealer attempted is shady and actually illegal. Suppose he thought it would be a more palatable arrangement than bundling with a more expensive PM piece (but this one crosses legal lines).

OP - aside from this experience I hope you enjoyed your time in Greece!

[jlovda]

I read the thread title and these seven words....

Was on vacation in Greece last week ......

[Steerpike999]

Plenty of posts on this forum asking advise on how to avoid sales tax in the US, is that legal?

[904VT]

Just buy somewhere else back home.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

I am in no way disputing the fact that this store is obviously suggesting to commit VAT fraud. They are clearly up to no good.

Was just saying there is no legal duty to offer a vat refund. It is at the discretion of the retailer whether they offer tax free shopping as a service or not. If a store does enough business without having to entice tourists, good for them. Not a bad thing if VAT stays in the country of sale (whatever country it may be) since the amount of tax free sales never stacks up to the value of vat paid on return to home countries.

Can you turn your participation on and off like a faucet? Once you make the decision to participate are you saying you can pick and choose which transactions you want to participate and which ones you will not? On a daily or hourly basis?

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Steerpike999

Plenty of posts on this forum asking advise on how to avoid sales tax in the US, is that legal?

Nope. And the responses tell the posters this over and over.

[Kingfish01]

Had a great time anyway

[Swashplate]

Originally Posted by SMD

Nope. And the responses tell the posters this over and over.

Let's just be clear. Avoidance and Evasion are very different methods.

Folk in the US have a history of not enjoying taxation ;)

[Zoomerang]

LOL.. I had a chance to buy the TT SD at MSRP with NO tax in the Dominican Republic.. of course I'd have to pay taxes when coming back to the US (on MSRP minus the $800 allowance per person) but it would had been less than paying my California sales tax rate.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Swashplate

Let's just be clear. Avoidance and Evasion are very different methods.

Folk in the US have a history of not enjoying taxation ;)

If people in states with a sales tax decide to not file a use tax return when they purchase from out of state it’s a crime. This is not a grey area. It’s clear cut.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Zoomerang

LOL.. I had a chance to buy the TT SD at MSRP with NO tax in the Dominican Republic.. of course I'd have to pay taxes when coming back to the US (minus the $800/pp) but it would had been less than paying my California sales tax rate.

You are confusing customs and taxes. You still owe California taxes on that watch. Google California use tax.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Kingfish01

Was on vacation in Greece last week and came upon an AD on an island (I won’t mention the name but happens to be a volcano) who had a two tone Sea Dweller sitting in the window. It’s not really my style but I stopped In to take a look anyway. As I spoke with the “gentleman “ about the price, he mentioned that the watch is in high demand but he would sell it to me only if he keeps the VAT refund (about 24% on €15.3k). I asked why (I know why, greed) and he replied that since his European clients have to pay the VAT on their purchases, he would sell me the watch at the same price his European clients pay. I laughed and left. He and his store were complete joke and sham

Report him to Rolex. It is only fair.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by SMD

If people in states with a sales tax decide to not file a use tax return when they purchase from out of state it’s a crime. This is not a grey area. It’s clear cut.

Indeed.

[Zoomerang]

Originally Posted by SMD

You are confusing customs and taxes. You still owe California taxes on that watch. Google California use tax.

Nah.. it is still out of pocket money so it's a TAX!

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Zoomerang

Nah.. it is still out of pocket money so it's a TAX!

If you say so. One is federal one is state. Call it what you want you still owe California sales tax.

[Radix]

There are legal ways to avoid taxes in the U.S.

[jeanjean]

sorry to say ...c est un con ce mec !
Why to overprice you because you
are an American.Maybe some countries, I could
understand but certainly not America.

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by Kingfish01

Was on vacation in Greece last week and came upon an AD on an island (I won’t mention the name but happens to be a volcano) who had a two tone Sea Dweller sitting in the window. It’s not really my style but I stopped In to take a look anyway. As I spoke with the “gentleman “ about the price, he mentioned that the watch is in high demand but he would sell it to me only if he keeps the VAT refund (about 24% on €15.3k). I asked why (I know why, greed) and he replied that since his European clients have to pay the VAT on their purchases, he would sell me the watch at the same price his European clients pay. I laughed and left. He and his store were complete joke and sham

I don’t understand the thread. The retailer plays no role in your VAT rebate in Europe. You pay full price, including VAT, keep the receipt, complete a form and recuperate the VAT at a booth at every main airport when you have a boarding pass showing you are about to board a flight leaving Europe.

[pepsiretail]

Honestly, your Greek experience,

c'est ne pas le Perou

but yeah, the guy,

c'est un faux jeton.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by Seibei

Well done, Sir, report him to Rolex!

As I say so many times, ROLEX DONT CARE

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by Kingfish01

Was on vacation in Greece last week and came upon an AD on an island (I won’t mention the name but happens to be a volcano) who had a two tone Sea Dweller sitting in the window. It’s not really my style but I stopped In to take a look anyway. As I spoke with the “gentleman “ about the price, he mentioned that the watch is in high demand but he would sell it to me only if he keeps the VAT refund (about 24% on €15.3k). I asked why (I know why, greed) and he replied that since his European clients have to pay the VAT on their purchases, he would sell me the watch at the same price his European clients pay. I laughed and left. He and his store were complete joke and sham

Their mistake was putting it in the window. They should have kept it in the safe for a local client

[maxymax]

Originally Posted by inadeje

I don’t understand the thread. The retailer plays no role in your VAT rebate in Europe. You pay full price, including VAT, keep the receipt, complete a form and recuperate the VAT at a booth at every main airport when you have a boarding pass showing you are about to board a flight leaving Europe.

I deduce he wasn’t going to provide the required VAT refund form with the sale details....

[Brovsko]

Originally Posted by HappyFish

Locals first and americans should have to pay an extra 25% tax!

Why should Americans have to pay an extra 25% tax? It seems a lot of your posts are dedicated to bashing Americans. Care you explain? Btw I'm also located in Monaco and American.


- Brovsko

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by SMD

Can you turn your participation on and off like a faucet? Once you make the decision to participate are you saying you can pick and choose which transactions you want to participate and which ones you will not? On a daily or hourly basis?

The answer is yes and no.

A store that operates Tax Free shopping as a service cannot pick and choose on a whim which customers will or will not receive a vat refund if they are eligible for it.

However a store has a duty to decline to process the vat refund when they are aware that the claim is fraudulent. For example if you are a citizen of a country that would ordinarily entitle you to the vat refund, but you are also a resident of the country you are purchasing in then you cannot claim the vat back. Another scenario would be having the purchaser request the refund be put in the name of a friend or relative that is entitled when the purchaser is not. These situations arise very frequently and are being taken much more seriously now with EU wide money laundry and tax fraud legislation being pushed to the forefront.

Again for clarification; this does not seem to be the situation with the OP and the store they visited and I am not trying to suggest it is.

[Jamie1111]

Wonder why their economy has been and is in the toilet...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Swashplate]

Originally Posted by SMD

If people in states with a sales tax decide to not file a use tax return when they purchase from out of state it’s a crime. This is not a grey area. It’s clear cut.

That is incorrect. I have completed millions of dollars in transactions interstate and internationally.

But it seems everyone on here either likes paying tax or is a amateur tax attorney....

[Silvio_86]

Talked with an AD.... nowadays they are avoiding tax free with problems with tax refund agencies and governments procedures.... if a guy buys something and fails to produce documents at the custom, don't ask why, but the ad is responsible for paying the VAT... at least in italy.... saw the same for a yellow gold sub few days ago and asked why to the AD... you can guess that for a 30k watch 20% vat is not a joke.... both for customer and dealer.

[JodyHighroller]

Originally Posted by Silvio_86

Talked with an AD.... nowadays they are avoiding tax free with problems with tax refund agencies and governments procedures.... if a guy buys something and fails to produce documents at the custom, don't ask why, but the ad is responsible for paying the VAT... at least in italy.... saw the same for a yellow gold sub few days ago and asked why to the AD... you can guess that for a 30k watch 20% vat is not a joke.... both for customer and dealer.

This doesn’t make sense to me. When you purchase an item, you are automatically charged VAT regardless. If you don’t produce documentation when you exit the country then you forfeit your tax refund. It’s assumed the item wasn’t exported through proper channels. The AD already did their job by charging tax.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Swashplate

That is incorrect. I have completed millions of dollars in transactions interstate and internationally.

But it seems everyone on here either likes paying tax or is a amateur tax attorney....

I actually am an attorney. Washington state for example.

http://www.nmsd.wednet.edu/userfiles...nes.pdf?id=901

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by Uggi

I'm not sure what's "shady" about this.
He's free to sell the watch to whoever he likes.

Exactly and he can't just hold onto the VAT. Procedures for VAT return and eligibility are well defined.
It's his choice whether or not to offer the tax-free option and somehow it's equal opportunity offered to all buyers visiting the store.


Think about it the other way around: EU Buyers slapped with the usual 24%.

OP getting a VAT refund and choosing not to declare at US customs upon re-entry.

For the economy comment, ironically this AD might actually be offering a service to his state...