Amazon HQ2 and 3 announced, NoVA (DC, MD area) and NY

[breitlings]

When I heard that Amazon was looking for a new HQ I believed that the "DMV" (Dc, Md, Va area) was likely going to be the landing spot with Montgomery County, MD or NoVA being the top landing spots for various reasons.

Today it was just announced 2 new HQs one in NY and one in NoVA. I don't have the projections but I heard someone suggest each office could employ 2500 people making 6 figures or more which is an important economic driver.

Any thoughts?

Reference: https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-...d=hp_lead_pos1

[Blansky]

I'm torn. On the one hand I love Amazon and use it frequently.

But on the other hand, companies getting too big and powerful is rarely good in the overall picture. It started with Walmart coming into towns and decimating the downtown businesses and eventually turning many into virtual ghost towns. Then the supposed job creation was all minimum wages. On top of that all the profit left town as opposed to being circulated throughout the town as it was previously.

Amazon now carries on the same type of enterprise only online and delivery companies.

I don't understand the long term economics of one company becoming so powerful and I sort of fear what is on the horizon with them.

As for where the warehouses are located it doesn't affect me but I doubt the jobs are much more than minimum wage.

[tudorbaja27]

Thank God it ain't Boston.
I'm also unimpressed with a company becoming so big that it gets to do what it wants (hello Amazon). As with everything, there needs to be a balance (which there currently is not).

[tudorbaja27]

Also - there are many complexities to the issue (hello rent hikes, etc). I lived in Seattle when Amazon developed the hell out of itself - and there are good and bad sides to the story.

[Blansky]

Perhaps it should also be illegal for towns and cities to give any kind of tax incentives to companies for locating in their areas. This would stop the games that Amazon has been playing while picking it's locations.

Giving benefits to the richest corporations who can most afford to pay their taxes is basically unfair to other business and can in fact cause tax increases to the local populations.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I'm torn. On the one hand I love Amazon and use it frequently.

But on the other hand, companies getting too big and powerful is rarely good in the overall picture. It started with Walmart coming into towns and decimating the downtown businesses and eventually turning many into virtual ghost towns. Then the supposed job creation was all minimum wages. On top of that all the profit left town as opposed to being circulated throughout the town as it was previously.

Amazon now carries on the same type of enterprise only online and delivery companies.

I don't understand the long term economics of one company becoming so powerful and I sort of fear what is on the horizon with them.

As for where the warehouses are located it doesn't affect me but I doubt the jobs are much more than minimum wage.

Interesting thoughts. Wal Mart competed on costs, they brought very little technological innovation to the (although their efficiency was impressive). Amazon develops quite a bit and is in multiple areas which may speak to your point. I spend time at a couple of locations on the Eastern Shore and they are remote, it has changed my life being able to order a boat fuel pump, or specific coffee and get it there within a day or two, as well as being able to stream movies on the boat, etc.

These two locations are not warehouses, they are development headquarters "HQ2." I would describe the jobs as "white collar" but I don't think many developers actually wear button up shirts.

The rents and housing is not cheap in that area, but I'm sure it will climb.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by tudorbaja27

Also - there are many complexities to the issue (hello rent hikes, etc). I lived in Seattle when Amazon developed the hell out of itself - and there are good and bad sides to the story.

I think NYC and DMV/NoVA have a diverse economy and are fairly built up with high rents and property pricing already largely factored in. Do you think it will move the needle in areas with already high rents like NYC?

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Perhaps it should also be illegal for towns and cities to give any kind of tax incentives to companies for locating in their areas. This would stop the games that Amazon has been playing while picking it's locations.

Giving benefits to the richest corporations who can most afford to pay their taxes is basically unfair to other business and can in fact cause tax increases to the local populations.

I've read that not only will they get a 1.2 Billion tax break, but almost a billion more in grants and another 200 million in infrastructure improvement. Seems like these towns not only welcome the big guys that dry them up, but they roll out the red carpet for them as well.

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

I've read that not only will they get a 1.2 Billion tax break, but almost a billion more in grants and another 200 million in infrastructure improvement. Seems like these towns not only welcome the big guys that dry them up, but they roll out the red carpet for them as well.

Agreed. Objective research has shown time and time again that these types of tax breaks and financial incentives don't end up helping the cities much. Though, for some reason, cities still engage in them time and time again.

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I think NYC and DMV/NoVA have a diverse economy and are fairly built up with high rents and property pricing already largely factored in. Do you think it will move the needle in areas with already high rents like NYC?

Remains to be seen. I believe i read an article earlier in the WSJ regarding speculators looking to enter Long Island real estate as of this morning :)

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

I've read that not only will they get a 1.2 Billion tax break, but almost a billion more in grants and another 200 million in infrastructure improvement. Seems like these towns not only welcome the big guys that dry them up, but they roll out the red carpet for them as well.

Beware geeks bearing gifts.

[tbonesteak]

Not happy about this, tbh.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by tudorbaja27

Thank God it ain't Boston.
I'm also unimpressed with a company becoming so big that it gets to do what it wants (hello Amazon). As with everything, there needs to be a balance (which there currently is not).

x2.

I suspect Boston was out once Amazon got a feeling for our roads and transit system.

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

x2.

I suspect Boston was out once Amazon got a feeling for our roads and transit system.

I imagine Amazonians would not be happy with the green line

[SMD]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...m?srnd=opinion

[Beo3]

I grew up in the Long Island City area, and my elderly father still lives there. What was once all manufacturing plants (and at night, a stroll for women of ill repute) has become high rises and coffee bars. It is unbelievable what has happen in that area! The older folks, such as my Dad, all complain about the influx of the "new breed". But what was once a very blue collar, immigrant based neighborhood, has taken on a whole new look.

The very small row house my parents bought in 1973 for 27,000, is currently worth in excess of 1,000,000 and climbing.

Hindsight being 20/20, I wish that I had invested in some real estate locally when I was a younger man.

[Romeojk]

There are good and bad points but I wouldn't mind working there. I imagine it'd be a lot of fun and good camaraderie in a new office with mostly new people. Exciting times!

Think of this for a neighborhood, 2,500 jobs X $100,000 = $250 million in salaries in the close proximity.

Maybe it's time to open an AD across the street from them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[theloxmyth]

Apparently, they've all the $150,000/year peeps en mass?

[bdex75]

Bet amazon got a lot of good data out of these “proposals” that these cities had to submit to be considered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Romeojk

There are good and bad points but I wouldn't mind working there. I imagine it'd be a lot of fun and good camaraderie in a new office with mostly new people. Exciting times!

Think of this for a neighborhood, 2,500 jobs X $100,000 = $250 million in salaries in the close proximity.

Maybe it's time to open an AD across the street from them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its 25,000 jobs not 2500.

Edit: I saw another source that said its 2500 new jobs each year for a decade. Probably what you were referencing.

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by Romeojk

There are good and bad points but I wouldn't mind working there. I imagine it'd be a lot of fun and good camaraderie in a new office with mostly new people. Exciting times!

Think of this for a neighborhood, 2,500 jobs X $100,000 = $250 million in salaries in the close proximity.

Maybe it's time to open an AD across the street from them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd take a vague guess and say most of them would wear Apple watches

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by SMD

Its 25,000 jobs not 2500.

Edit: I saw another source that said its 2500 new jobs each year for a decade. Probably what you were referencing.

I believe he was quoting me. I heard a projection that 5k of the hq2 jobs would be highly compensated employees, I divided the number in two for two HQs.

[Blacktocomm]

Originally Posted by tudorbaja27

I'd take a vague guess and say most of them would wear Apple watches

I think a fair amount of them do, but there is also a huge watch community inside of Amazon and I have seen some mind blowing pieces while visiting their offices.

Originally Posted by breitlings

These two locations are not warehouses, they are development headquarters "HQ2." I would describe the jobs as "white collar" but I don't think many developers actually wear button up shirts.

This is exactly true. These HQ's will have a very base crew of support staff, but mostly be professional workers/developers. The salary for a "lowly" L5 SDE at Amazon is 135-ish base, 25ish sign-on, and probably 40RSU.

I also imagine when they say highly compensated workers they are speaking of L7 and above. Which is MUCH deeper into six figures than the 100k estimate thrown out above.

[leooooo]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Perhaps it should also be illegal for towns and cities to give any kind of tax incentives to companies for locating in their areas.

Dont think it's a city thing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/u...land-city.html

Sounds like a federal thing

[breitlings]

VA Tech announces $1B North Campus ~ 2 miles from HQ2 in Crystal City. https://wtkr.com/2018/11/13/virginia...-hq2-decision/

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by breitlings

When I heard that Amazon was looking for a new HQ I believed that the "DMV" (Dc, Md, Va area) was likely going to be the landing spot with Montgomery County, MD or NoVA being the top landing spots for various reasons.

Today it was just announced 2 new HQs one in NY and one in NoVA. I don't have the projections but I heard someone suggest each office could employ 2500 people making 6 figures or more which is an important economic driver.

Any thoughts?

Reference: https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-...d=hp_lead_pos1

“Could”.

My only thought.

Congrats to Jeff.

Well played sir, well played.

My only comment.

[77T]

See Tencent and Alibaba as canaries in the coal mine. Strong earnings on virtual side, lower results in hard product sales.

Amazon has a unique model in US but it is replicable elsewhere. Hopefully the 2 new HQ’s can work seamlessly with Home HQ to create synergies not otherwise attainable from a single campus a’la Apple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by 77T

See Tencent and Alibaba as canaries in the coal mine. Strong earnings on virtual side, lower results in hard product sales.

Amazon has a unique model in US but it is replicable elsewhere. Hopefully the 2 new HQ’s can work seamlessly with Home HQ to create synergies not otherwise attainable from a single campus a’la Apple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I believe Amazon does quite a bit of defense contracting and is positioning to do more, DMV is a perfect fit.

Amazon earnings have been strong for a long time. The profits are lower than many anticipate because they reinvest at a higher rate than most investors are used to for their vertical.

IMHO if you really dig into their capabilities it is incredible and is far beyond two-day delivery. They are perhaps the most underestimated and misunderstood company in the world. Just my opinion as a tech guy watching on the sidelines.

[samson66]

Like the traffic in Northern Virginia isn't bad enough already. What a nightmare. More reason why I stay north of the Potomac as much as possible.

[Blacktocomm]

Originally Posted by 77T

See Tencent and Alibaba as canaries in the coal mine. Strong earnings on virtual side, lower results in hard product sales.

Amazon has a unique model in US but it is replicable elsewhere. Hopefully the 2 new HQ’s can work seamlessly with Home HQ to create synergies not otherwise attainable from a single campus a’la Apple.

I think a heavy amount of the HQ NoVA work will be done in regards to the AWS government contracts. Very little reliance on hard goods for AWS contracts.

I also imagine HQ NY will be focused on having AWS representation closer to Wall Street instead of worrying about hard goods.

It will be exciting to see how/if they split the responsibility for the headquarters and what happens.