Update on Update - Daytona Dilemma - the gift that keeps on giving

[Oldfellow]

OP, maybe you should have a break from this thread for a couple of weeks and report back when your watch is returned.
It is apparent this is causing you undue stress, which is not helpful to your wellbeing.
Looking forward to seeing the outcome.
Take care.

[214270Explorer]

"CW21 Watchmaker" my butt. His action speaks of "poser" --- IMHO.

He is an uneducated idiot to put a watch head in an Ultrasonic cleaning machine. No "real" CW21 would be that dumb. The "real" ones KNOW what an Ultrasonic would do to the lubes present in the movement (migrate the lubes) and would not pull such a stunt.

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

I just need a happy ending...

This, too, shall pass. Your 126710 is wonderful and it’s a perfect companion, IMO. Positive vibes, sent! it will work out just fine, from here.

[sgwatchguy]

Pic of the buffed area?



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[Skavary]

Wishing you a speedy resolution! Hopefully all will be well!

[JacksonRain]

So I spoke with another watchmaker at my AD, who expressed great concern about the other watchmaker who thought it was okay to place my watch in an ultrasonic cleaner. He acknowledged that it's not safe, for reasons that we already know, and he said he will respond to the watchmaker and advise management to ensure that something like that never happens again.

I don't think I'm going to be happy unless I get a new watch. From the scratches, to the buff, to the malpractice of the ultrasonic which damaged the previously perfect movement and timekeeping to the denial of any wrongdoing, was a real slap in the face.

I'm going to try to give it a try. I truly believe it's a reasonable request given the circumstances.

We'll see...

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

So I spoke with another watchmaker at my AD, who expressed great concern about the other watchmaker who thought it was okay to place my watch in an ultrasonic cleaner. He acknowledged that it's not safe, for reasons that we already know, and he said he will respond to the watchmaker and advise management to ensure that something like that never happens again.

I don't think I'm going to be happy unless I get a new watch. From the scratches, to the buff, to the malpractice of the ultrasonic which damaged the previously perfect movement and timekeeping to the denial of any wrongdoing, was a real slap in the face.

I'm going to try to give it a try. I truly believe it's a reasonable request given the circumstances.

We'll see...

Sadly, you experienced “the perfect storm of incompetence”. Kind of hard to believe.

They need to supply you a new watch and just repair and sell the other as previously owned.

Hoping for the resolution you want.

[JacksonRain]

Originally Posted by Bladeshot

Sadly, you experienced “the perfect storm of incompetence”. Kind of hard to believe.

They need to supply you a new watch and just repair and sell the other as previously owned.

Hoping for the resolution you want.

Yeah, I called my AD and said that although the watch may be repaired, it may take some serious time, and with all that has transpired, I would like to request a replacement watch, and with the manager's permission, if I could speak with the owner. While I was polite and professional, the Conversation went South real quick, during a subsequent phone call back after she had relayed our discussion with the owner. It was proposed to the owner, who rejected it, stood by the watchmaker who put it in the ultrasonic, and then said that he will just refund your money and ask for me to walk away. They also expressed concern that when they get it back to me they are afraid that I won't be happy. It was expressed that the owner wanted the watch himself, and that he would just take it for himself in his collection because he doesn't have one. I declined the proposal, of course, and advised that it's my watch and that I want my watch. She said will wait it out so they do a work-up and they get it fixed.

I remained really polite and friendly, and I actually apologized to them if my proposal offended them, and if calling their other watchmaker at the other location seemed underhanded, but it was with no ill intentions, and it was actually prompted by my sales associate saying that they always use ultrasonics and dumped watches in ultrasonics and that the watchmaker actually supervises and directs other watchmakers.

While the relationship appears clearly tarnished, it's fine, I'm not going to have any hard feelings on my end. That watch and the name It's under means a lot to me. Hope it comes back safe and in order, and now it's time to exercise some serious patience and restraint.

[alex.cicollo]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

Yeah, I called my AD and said that although the watch may be repaired, it may take some serious time, and with all that has transpired, I would like to request a replacement watch, and with the manager's permission, if I could speak with the owner. While I was polite and professional, the Conversation went South real quick, during a subsequent phone call back after she had relayed our discussion with the owner. It was proposed to the owner, who rejected it, stood by the watchmaker who put it in the ultrasonic, and then said that he will just refund your money and ask for me to walk away. They also expressed concern that when they get it back to me they are afraid that I won't be happy. It was expressed that the owner wanted the watch himself, and that he would just take it for himself in his collection because he doesn't have one. I declined the proposal, of course, and advised that it's my watch and that I want my watch. She said will wait it out so they do a work-up and they get it fixed.

I remained really polite and friendly, and I actually apologized to them if my proposal offended them, and if calling their other watchmaker at the other location seemed underhanded, but it was with no ill intentions, and it was actually prompted by my sales associate saying that they always use ultrasonics and dumped watches in ultrasonics and that the watchmaker actually supervises and directs other watchmakers.

While the relationship appears clearly tarnished, it's fine, I'm not going to have any hard feelings on my end. That watch and the name It's under means a lot to me. Hope it comes back safe and in order, and now it's time to exercise some serious patience and restraint.

You are right, well done for being the adult in the room....


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[77T]

I hope the RSC work meets your expectations. My guess is the AD has submitted the Daytona to RSC under the warranty for only a regulation without disclosing their mistake(s).

Did the AD promise you an overhaul?

If the AD’s ultrasonic bath of the head actually caused lubricant to splay out of the jewel cups and other places, the RSC may tell the AD that a warranty claim is denied due to misuse/abuse. To the RSC, such symptoms would resemble an owner subjecting the watch to jackhammer-like or paint-shaker-like G-forces beyond ordinary use.

Of course that wouldn’t be your misuse, but I seriously doubt the AD will confess their watchmaker’s brainlessness to the RSC.

If that situation develops, the AD may be calling to ask “what have you done?”

My hopes are you get your Daytona back in perfect shape and operating within +/-2...


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[JacksonRain]

Hey Paul,

Watchmaker on-site set that it is a simple regulation, and that he can get it done very quickly, as I said before. The several other watchmakers with whom I spoke, including Ric, said the watch is likely going to need a complete service, overhaul. The other said that it needs to be opened up and inspected carefully to assess what's going on. No one said it's a simple regulation other than this watchmaker who put my watch in the ultrasonic.

I was concerned and Ashley that they would not be forthcoming about that also feared that with this failure to disclose, they will get the watch, see that the thing is only one week old, in perfect condition on the exterior and perhaps deduce it only needs a regulation. But I think I should have more confidence in them. I'm not a watchmaker so I don't know what they see when they open it up.

Now, I did ask the AD to please disclose that they put it in the ultrasonic. I have a feeling that they are going to be honest with them. I told them myself that it's a mechanical watch, and anything can go wrong. One thing I left out was that when I went back to the watchmaker, and I told him that the thing was working perfectly 5 days, and I kind of obsess I get a high off these timepieces telling perfect time, which my watch was doing, the WM stated that it could be thrown off by impact, like banging it. The look on my face in response, dealing with a brand new watch with 3m plastic surrounding it, i couldn't even stomach a small scratch that was not put there by his own doing, i baby the things like they are the most delicate pieces of jewelry (and I have been successful in safeguarding against the slightest of scratches for several years for the most part), and i had to listen to the this guy suggest that the watch was banged up by me.

You are correct, and this was a topic of discussion, and the reason why I asked for a replacement. I expressed that it's a mechanical movement, and that things can go wrong, and if that was the case due to me or some intervening cause, I would have accepted it, and not requested a replacement. I specifically told her that I am very confident that this is not a warranty issue. I told her that I suspect that RSC is going to come back and say that there was serious "impact damage", but what do I know.

The brightside? she did say that she is going to talk to them next week, and stated that her contact is going to advise her further about "their policy with respect to ultrasonics". I doubt that's she would say such a thing disingenuously on her own volition. At least I hope not. Plus, she said that even if they say that theres a charge, that they would cover it (when I had initially dropped it off). it does seem all a bit inconsistent. Perhaps it's a bit of doubt, mixed with ego, mixed with attempted courtesy. I don't know. Thanks for the well wishes.

[Psijason]

Good luck buddy. Curious to see how this plays out!!

[novae500]

i would just accept the full refund and move on to another AD to acquire the same watch. What a mess you have gone through with this watch.

[Bizcut1]

Originally Posted by novae500

i would just accept the full refund and move on to another AD to acquire the same watch. What a mess you have gone through with this watch.

+1 absolutely. Get your money back and get the hell out of there.

And I would also consider a blast on Yelp for these incompetents. Save some other poor sucker this aggravation.

Good luck.

[mimo5000]

Originally Posted by novae500

i would just accept the full refund and move on to another AD to acquire the same watch. What a mess you have gone through with this watch.

This ^

Based on your frustrations and concerns, I imagine you will always question the watch even when it comes back. I feel your pain and as much as I'd try to put it our of my head, it's hard and I know how I too can obsess over these things (and I'd be much more fine with it if it was ME who scratched/damaged the watch vs someone I hired to take expert care).

If the full refund offer is still on the table it may be the angle that causes you personally the least amount of suffering.

And then you can go on a new watch chase, which is always fun (and "potentially" getting easier based on WW supply/demand).

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[BillA]

Agree with others, get your money back, the watch will never be like it was set at the factory. Get your money and run.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by novae500

i would just accept the full refund and move on to another AD to acquire the same watch. What a mess you have gone through with this watch.

Agreed.

[JacksonRain]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Agreed.

Originally Posted by BillA

Agree with others, get your money back, the watch will never be like it was set at the factory. Get your money and run.

Originally Posted by mimo5000

This ^

Based on your frustrations and concerns, I imagine you will always question the watch even when it comes back. I feel your pain and as much as I'd try to put it our of my head, it's hard and I know how I too can obsess over these things (and I'd be much more fine with it if it was ME who scratched/damaged the watch vs someone I hired to take expert care).

If the full refund offer is still on the table it may be the angle that causes you personally the least amount of suffering.

And then you can go on a new watch chase, which is always fun (and "potentially" getting easier based on WW supply/demand).

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Guys, I can't accept that offer. I already rejected it unequivocally. This watch is not available, so, a refund is not going to make me whole at MSRP. As for the watch never being back to the way it was when the wonderful watchmaker in Switzerland set it up, perhaps you're correct, but at least I will know that it wasn't opened up by some secondary dealer who voided the warranty by opening up the watch, and having it exposed it to dust, or unsanitary conditions, etc. I'm not saying the quality control is absolutely perfect, and I know things can be done incorrectly anywhere, and anyone can have a bad day, etc, but I feel comfortable knowing that it's being serviced by RSC.

There is no way that I'm going to be left without the Daytona, giving up my property, without a brand new replacement watch. I asked, they refused, so not much left to do on the front at this time. I should have my watch back within spec. That's what was promised and that's what I expect, at the very least. I will be in touch once I hear further.

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

Yeah, I called my AD and said that although the watch may be repaired, it may take some serious time, and with all that has transpired, I would like to request a replacement watch, and with the manager's permission, if I could speak with the owner. While I was polite and professional, the Conversation went South real quick, during a subsequent phone call back after she had relayed our discussion with the owner. It was proposed to the owner, who rejected it, stood by the watchmaker who put it in the ultrasonic, and then said that he will just refund your money and ask for me to walk away. They also expressed concern that when they get it back to me they are afraid that I won't be happy. It was expressed that the owner wanted the watch himself, and that he would just take it for himself in his collection because he doesn't have one. I declined the proposal, of course, and advised that it's my watch and that I want my watch. She said will wait it out so they do a work-up and they get it fixed.

I remained really polite and friendly, and I actually apologized to them if my proposal offended them, and if calling their other watchmaker at the other location seemed underhanded, but it was with no ill intentions, and it was actually prompted by my sales associate saying that they always use ultrasonics and dumped watches in ultrasonics and that the watchmaker actually supervises and directs other watchmakers.

While the relationship appears clearly tarnished, it's fine, I'm not going to have any hard feelings on my end. That watch and the name It's under means a lot to me. Hope it comes back safe and in order, and now it's time to exercise some serious patience and restraint.

You nailed with the last line.
Time to practice patience.

[037]

I suspect your AD will foot the service bill even if they aren't transparent on what happened and RSC doesn't cover it under warranty. I highly doubt your AD would attempt to charge you for any of this.

However, I do suspect your AD is done selling watches to you.

Hope all goes well. Good luck.

[77T]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

Hey Paul,

Watchmaker on-site set that it is a simple regulation, and that he can get it done very quickly, as I said before. The several other watchmakers with whom I spoke, including Ric, said the watch is likely going to need a complete service, overhaul. The other said that it needs to be opened up and inspected carefully to assess what's going on. No one said it's a simple regulation other than this watchmaker who put my watch in the ultrasonic.

I was concerned and Ashley that they would not be forthcoming about that also feared that with this failure to disclose, they will get the watch, see that the thing is only one week old, in perfect condition on the exterior and perhaps deduce it only needs a regulation. But I think I should have more confidence in them. I'm not a watchmaker so I don't know what they see when they open it up.

Now, I did ask the AD to please disclose that they put it in the ultrasonic. I have a feeling that they are going to be honest with them. I told them myself that it's a mechanical watch, and anything can go wrong. One thing I left out was that when I went back to the watchmaker, and I told him that the thing was working perfectly 5 days, and I kind of obsess I get a high off these timepieces telling perfect time, which my watch was doing, the WM stated that it could be thrown off by impact, like banging it. The look on my face in response, dealing with a brand new watch with 3m plastic surrounding it, i couldn't even stomach a small scratch that was not put there by his own doing, i baby the things like they are the most delicate pieces of jewelry (and I have been successful in safeguarding against the slightest of scratches for several years for the most part), and i had to listen to the this guy suggest that the watch was banged up by me.

You are correct, and this was a topic of discussion, and the reason why I asked for a replacement. I expressed that it's a mechanical movement, and that things can go wrong, and if that was the case due to me or some intervening cause, I would have accepted it, and not requested a replacement. I specifically told her that I am very confident that this is not a warranty issue. I told her that I suspect that RSC is going to come back and say that there was serious "impact damage", but what do I know.

The brightside? she did say that she is going to talk to them next week, and stated that her contact is going to advise her further about "their policy with respect to ultrasonics". I doubt that's she would say such a thing disingenuously on her own volition. At least I hope not. Plus, she said that even if they say that theres a charge, that they would cover it (when I had initially dropped it off). it does seem all a bit inconsistent. Perhaps it's a bit of doubt, mixed with ego, mixed with attempted courtesy. I don't know. Thanks for the well wishes.

I certainly hope it all goes well.

The manager’s hands may be tied by the owner if RSC declines work under warranty even if the AD confesses to the ultrasonic. She may have to “walk back” her verbal commitment to cover costs if an overhaul is charged.

I do agree with your decision to keep the watch. The ultrasonic didn’t do life-threatening damage to the movement or it would have been showing worse performance than you shared. To get all the lube in the right places it will need disassembly so RSC is the best route to preserve your full warranty period.

Look forward to a new incoming post in the near future (of course, that could be 4-6 weeks from now).


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[Frank Mucus]

Even after all that I still would rather have a refund. You're dealing with a watch which was supposed to be new which had unnecessary wear due to the ultrasonic machine. Not worth the headache at all.

[Chester01]

Lol. My mother had a day-date never serviced and she put it in her ultrasonic cleaner all the time. It’s amazing what people here come up with to worry about.

[Mr DateJust]

The AD scratched the watch then the AD had some guy who is NOT a qualified watch maker no matter what he claims dump the whole thing in an ultra sonic. Take the refund and run. I’d also name the AD on here so no one else goes near them.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

Guys, I can't accept that offer. I already rejected it unequivocally. This watch is not available, so, a refund is not going to make me whole at MSRP. As for the watch never being back to the way it was when the wonderful watchmaker in Switzerland set it up, perhaps you're correct, but at least I will know that it wasn't opened up by some secondary dealer who voided the warranty by opening up the watch, and having it exposed it to dust, or unsanitary conditions, etc. I'm not saying the quality control is absolutely perfect, and I know things can be done incorrectly anywhere, and anyone can have a bad day, etc, but I feel comfortable knowing that it's being serviced by RSC.

There is no way that I'm going to be left without the Daytona, giving up my property, without a brand new replacement watch. I asked, they refused, so not much left to do on the front at this time. I should have my watch back within spec. That's what was promised and that's what I expect, at the very least. I will be in touch once I hear further.

Hey, it's your call. I think we're more so suggesting what we'd do and what we think is the best way forward.

If the watch will return to you like it was brand new, cool. These Daytonas are young enough that any replacement part (by the factory itself) isn't going to do much change to its long term horological collectibility/value, if that matters to you.

I think our advice to get your money back stems from two possibilities: (1) there is long-term damage RSC will not address, or (2) the AD will try to pass the costs along to you, the owner, through any sort of shenanigans/bullshit/fraud. From how you've described them, that isn't out of the question. In such an event, I would gently remind you of something: the premiums on Daytonas aren't exactly growing. Grey-market dealers are looking at $18-$19 for black dials, and $20-22 for white dials. Yes, those are significant premiums- but if the AD makes you pay for servicing (replacing a few damaged parts), you're... almost there.

At any rate, this is ridiculously unprofessional on behalf of your AD. If I were in your shoes I'd search for a new one.

[Old Geezer]

If it were me, I'd try to get the full refund and go about trying to source a new one somewhere else. I just wouldn't be happy with a brand new watch with so much baggage. I think it's safe to assume the AD has labeled you a "problem customer" (NOT saying you are) and won't source you anything that isn't in the case anyways.

[JacksonRain]

Originally Posted by 77T

I certainly hope it all goes well.

The manager’s hands may be tied by the owner if RSC declines work under warranty even if the AD confesses to the ultrasonic. She may have to “walk back” her verbal commitment to cover costs if an overhaul is charged.

I do agree with your decision to keep the watch. The ultrasonic didn’t do life-threatening damage to the movement or it would have been showing worse performance than you shared. To get all the lube in the right places it will need disassembly so RSC is the best route to preserve your full warranty period.

Look forward to a new incoming post in the near future (of course, that could be 4-6 weeks from now).


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Update: You were correct. I was advised that it is being worked on and it is going to take another 3.5 weeks, and that's with "expediting it", apparently. So, it is going to take more than a "simple 20 minute regulation" after all!

more importantly, hope everyone on TRF is staying safe.