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Old 13 November 2018, 09:52 AM   #511
CorradoBrit
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Congrats.

But fact UPS have not provided some explanation or basis for payout is concerning. Guess they don't adhere to the adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity. I still think the culprit was someone working at the UPS Store and their lack of explanation supports that conclusion.

I will never use UPS for shipping valuable items.
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Old 13 November 2018, 11:30 AM   #512
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Tense, but satisfactory ending. Sad that UPS dragged it out for so long though.
...Satisfactory..to a point, that being you received your refund.. So I presume you're in the hunt for a replacement..!?
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Old 13 November 2018, 11:39 AM   #513
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...Satisfactory..to a point, that being you received your refund.. So I presume you're in the hunt for a replacement..!?
He wasn't the buyer. That was Helo008 who bought another example of the watch shortly after filing the claim.
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Old 13 November 2018, 11:49 AM   #514
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He wasn't the buyer. That was Helo008 who bought another example of the watch shortly after filing the claim.
..K.. So long as it worked out for the OP...-!
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Old 13 November 2018, 08:31 PM   #515
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Unfortunately, I am still very suspect as to what went down and wish I had done more due diligence and vetting.
Are you insinuating that the OP had something to do with the alleged theft?
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Old 14 November 2018, 04:30 PM   #516
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Are you insinuating that the OP had something to do with the alleged theft?
Yes.
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Old 14 November 2018, 09:56 PM   #517
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Yes.
I think you're making a scurrilous accusation here to cover up your fault in your extremely poor security practices at the shipper. UPS would not have paid out if they had any suspicion that the OP stole the watch. They paid because they found their process at fault.

I also don't think you would have budged off your stubborn finger pointing had the OP not taken you to court. You made up your mind it was his fault, or his crime, then you sat on your hands. I don't get the impression from your posts that you would have done the stand up thing if not forced to do so.
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Old 14 November 2018, 10:05 PM   #518
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I didn't read the thread, what are the lessons learned here so that others can be careful?
See post #55. The seller went to a UPS Store, told them the make and model of the watch, and insured it for a lot of money.

The UPS Store isn't UPS. It's a local franchise consignment outfit. When you ship through them, they are the shipper with UPS, not you, which complicates everything if something goes wrong.

So the seller told the minimum wage crew kids there is something hugely valuable in this box and trusted them to be on their best behavior.

Lessons learned. Ship directly with the courier service. Don't tell them there is a Rolex in the box. Call it precision instrumentation and insure for watch value.
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Old 14 November 2018, 11:35 PM   #519
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I think you're making a scurrilous accusation here to cover up your fault in your extremely poor security practices at the shipper. UPS would not have paid out if they had any suspicion that the OP stole the watch. They paid because they found their process at fault.

I also don't think you would have budged off your stubborn finger pointing had the OP not taken you to court. You made up your mind it was his fault, or his crime, then you sat on your hands. I don't get the impression from your posts that you would have done the stand up thing if not forced to do so.
There may be more here than we all know about. The OP started this thread on June 13th. I am not sure of the exact time line of shipment etc. But here the OP supposedly bought another identical watch on or around June 16th.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...51#post8680551

To me this seems a little odd to say the least that the OP didnt wait at all for this scenario to develop a little bit before buying another identical watch. Maybe all legit but to me is suspicious.

Then on June 15th he gives vinceb a good guy review in the who's who section which is 2 days after his initial post. I think a picture of a partial serial number would clear things up in my mind of his current watch.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...70#post8679270

Would be easy enough to contact vinceb to see if this did in fact happen. Again not accusing anyone of anything, just following the time line here since the OP is a newer member with limited posts and this empty Rolex box is a fairly well know scam thats been happening.
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Old 15 November 2018, 12:31 AM   #520
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this thread keeps giving haha what is next now ??
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Old 15 November 2018, 01:29 AM   #521
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Wow major lessons learned. i suspect UPS saw something on the camera footage with the employees after checking. looks like OP has stopped responding despite the latest insinuation. Glad it worked out
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Old 15 November 2018, 01:52 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by Jim Smyth View Post
There may be more here than we all know about. The OP started this thread on June 13th. I am not sure of the exact time line of shipment etc. But here the OP supposedly bought another identical watch on or around June 16th.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...51#post8680551

To me this seems a little odd to say the least that the OP didnt wait at all for this scenario to develop a little bit before buying another identical watch. Maybe all legit but to me is suspicious.

Then on June 15th he gives vinceb a good guy review in the who's who section which is 2 days after his initial post. I think a picture of a partial serial number would clear things up in my mind of his current watch.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...70#post8679270

Would be easy enough to contact vinceb to see if this did in fact happen. Again not accusing anyone of anything, just following the time line here since the OP is a newer member with limited posts and this empty Rolex box is a fairly well know scam thats been happening.
The OP called the police, posted this thread, cooperated with an investigation, and took the seller to court. None of these are scammer actions. All are something you'd do if you were cheated and took appropriate action to get your money back.

No one can speak to how other people choose to spend their money, or how impatient someone might be to own a watch, so I don't think it's fair to insinuate the OP is a criminal because he moved on quicker than you or I might have.

OTOH, the seller hid out until he had both the OP's money and the insurance claim money in hand, then complained that he had to answer for the OP's loss to a judge.
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Old 15 November 2018, 03:27 AM   #523
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I didn't read the thread, what are the lessons learned here so that others can be careful?

Clearly the lesson learned is seller should NEVER bring a watch and let them package it. That was not smart at all. Seller is very fortunate to get his money back. At the end of they day seller is responsible to make sure the watch reaches to the buyer. If all fails then seller deal with insurance.
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Old 15 November 2018, 03:39 AM   #524
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At the end of they day seller is responsible to make sure the watch reaches to the buyer.
Assuming everyone is being honest, which unfortunately is not always the case.
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Old 15 November 2018, 06:22 AM   #525
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Assuming everyone is being honest, which unfortunately is not always the case.
Buy the seller. Vet the buyer. It’s a two way street on scammers. In this case, I don’t think either was dishonest.

Shippers don’t need to know there is a Rolex in the box. Shipping a Rolex is almost as risky as mailing large sums of cash. The seller here was extremely careless announcing to the world what was in the package.
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Old 15 November 2018, 06:41 AM   #526
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Buy the seller. Vet the buyer. It’s a two way street on scammers. In this case, I don’t think either was dishonest.

Shippers don’t need to know there is a Rolex in the box. Shipping a Rolex is almost as risky as mailing large sums of cash. The seller here was extremely careless announcing to the world what was in the package.
to everything
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Old 15 November 2018, 07:00 AM   #527
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this thread keeps giving haha what is next now ??
is this fiasco still going on ?
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Old 15 November 2018, 07:01 AM   #528
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is this fiasco still going on ?
Only for the seller
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Old 15 November 2018, 07:10 AM   #529
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Clearly the lesson learned is seller should NEVER bring a watch and let them package it. That was not smart at all. Seller is very fortunate to get his money back. At the end of they day seller is responsible to make sure the watch reaches to the buyer. If all fails then seller deal with insurance.
Dang Shabaang!!!!

Why would anyone let a shipper package a Rolex is freaking beyond me!!!

This is like kindergarten 101 of high end watches... Somethin your
little pumpkin just won't and shouldn't do...
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Old 15 November 2018, 07:59 AM   #530
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We were in a business that utilized UPS for most shipments.
We always checked the weight of packages going in or out.
Had several instances of a package arriving 'short weighted'.
UPS security department ( mostly former Police Officers) was instrumental in finding the
spot in their system where the package wasn't being observed. They caught the employees in a UPS facility who targeted packages to a certain group of consignees/consignors which we were a member of.
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Old 15 November 2018, 08:18 AM   #531
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Wow sounds like a messed up situation!
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Old 15 November 2018, 03:50 PM   #532
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I think you're making a scurrilous accusation here to cover up your fault in your extremely poor security practices at the shipper. UPS would not have paid out if they had any suspicion that the OP stole the watch. They paid because they found their process at fault.

I also don't think you would have budged off your stubborn finger pointing had the OP not taken you to court. You made up your mind it was his fault, or his crime, then you sat on your hands. I don't get the impression from your posts that you would have done the stand up thing if not forced to do so.
+1. Is what struck me as suspicious was the weight of the package being the same when tendered for shipping by the seller as the empty box when received by the buyer. This only makes sense if an empty box was shipped.
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Old 15 November 2018, 10:58 PM   #533
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Buy the seller. Vet the buyer. It’s a two way street on scammers. In this case, I don’t think either was dishonest.

Shippers don’t need to know there is a Rolex in the box. Shipping a Rolex is almost as risky as mailing large sums of cash. The seller here was extremely careless announcing to the world what was in the package.
Shippers don't need to know what is in your box, period! None of their business.
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Old 15 November 2018, 11:43 PM   #534
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This whole matter hinged on trust - I mean seller, buyer, and carrier.

I sure don’t think ill of the parties, but somewhere out there is a “stolen” Rolex.


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Old 16 November 2018, 01:41 AM   #535
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And what is the serial number of the watch? It should be known to public and Rolex as stolen.
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Old 16 November 2018, 01:42 AM   #536
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And what is the serial number of the watch? It should be known to public and Rolex as stolen.
This
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Old 16 November 2018, 02:03 AM   #537
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+1. Is what struck me as suspicious was the weight of the package being the same when tendered for shipping by the seller as the empty box when received by the buyer. This only makes sense if an empty box was shipped.
this would be possible if the watch was removed by a ups employee in prior to being put on the scales?
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Old 16 November 2018, 02:48 AM   #538
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this would be possible if the watch was removed by a ups employee in prior to being put on the scales?
My thoughts exactly. I used to use UPS. They had a distribution center 10 minutes from where I lived. I sell alot of high end items that we cant talk about here. I take great pride in packaging my items where they cant get damaged unless the airplane ran the package over. EVERY time I went there to ship my items they had to know what was in the box and had me open it up to show them it was properly packaged. That got real old and I went with another carrier that didnt ask as many questions. Dont know if its a UPS policy or not but I dont use them if I can help it and thats 20+ years ago now. I also believe in not letting them know whats in the package to prevent the sticky finger scenario.
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Old 16 November 2018, 03:14 AM   #539
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this would be possible if the watch was removed by a ups employee in prior to being put on the scales?
Sure, but certainly not anything the OP would have been part of, which seller still infers.
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Old 16 November 2018, 05:03 AM   #540
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Sure, but certainly not anything the OP would have been part of, which seller still infers.
The buyer did everything one would expect of someone who was scammed himself, and UPS paid the seller a claim for losing the watch. Yet the seller persists in these accusations.

Given his persistance promoting these accusations, I’m not convinced the seller would have refunded the buyer, even after getting the claim money, had the buyer not taken him to court.
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