Price increase

[lawrenceb]

Fewer buyers = higher prices.. this trend will continue.
Cutting distribution created artificial demand, there is no reason for the prices
of certain models that have been made for years to be as high as they are.
The swiss watch industry is on the decline and will continue from now on.

All the brands have cut parts distribution to indy watchmakers to force the end user to send their pieces to the manufacturer so they can collect all the service revenue.

Bottom line is the the swiss watch industry is on the decline and will continue from now on. Younger generation has little interest or appreciation for mechanical timepieces. I expect to see brands combine with others to stay alive.

[bobernet]

The Royal Oak Jumbo is going to be the “budget” Genta. :-)

[AK797]

Originally Posted by sgfortino

I would think a 20% price increase coupled with supply increase may be a bit aggressive. At the new MSRP for the 5712 it isn’t much different than current secondary. They certainly lay don’t want to overshoot and go back to the days of the nautilus sitting in cases. Would surprise me if supple increased as well.

Without an increase in supply, greys can just raise prices by the same amount and the status quo remains the same except that more genuine clients become more angry and frustrated, so there would be little point in one without the other, but not all PP does makes that much sense so we will see.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by toucan

I seriously doubt an increase in production. I don't think they care or think as deeply as you guys are.
It's like Hamilton tickets in NYC, they raised the tickets to about 1k to reduce the margin between real
and secondary markets.
Unfortunately, no xtra seats are available just like there will not be additional 5711 and 5712s.

Yea, I see Patek raising prices but I think production will stay the same. If Patek produces more 5711/5712 then the exclusivity factor won’t be the same.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by lawrenceb

Fewer buyers = higher prices.. this trend will continue.
Cutting distribution created artificial demand, there is no reason for the prices
of certain models that have been made for years to be as high as they are.
The swiss watch industry is on the decline and will continue from now on.

All the brands have cut parts distribution to indy watchmakers to force the end user to send their pieces to the manufacturer so they can collect all the service revenue.

Bottom line is the the swiss watch industry is on the decline and will continue from now on. Younger generation has little interest or appreciation for mechanical timepieces. I expect to see brands combine with others to stay alive.

I think this is actually leading to a consolidation down to a few choice models and brands, and that is helping to drive their markets, and as the resale disparity grows, these brands become more and more appealing as others become less so.

[sechsgang]

Wow that's a HUGE increase. If that's the case, glad I just did my 5905p now vs after lol.

[tng11]

Factoring in that PP had a price cut a few years back, maybe a 20% rise in MSRP isn't that crazy considering the rate of inflation over the years?

What will be interesting to see is what they do with other pieces. Calatravas and annual calendars aren't exactly selling like hot cakes right now, and raising prices on them will further hurt ADs who have these models languish in inventory. But if the prices remain the same, then it might have Patek's desired effect of shifting some interest over to those models. At least I can speak for myself personally, being in the market for a 5712/1A - the value proposition of an annual calendar like the 5396 or 5205 becomes a lot more attractive relatively speaking after this price increase assuming the prices of those models stay the same.

Does anyone also think it's bizarre that this increase was announced only for these two models, but only to take effect March 1? What incentive is there for an AD who receives these models to deliver them from now until March 1st - they may as well hold them in the safe until March 1 and then deliver them!

At any rate - the new MSRP for the 5712/1A really has me rethinking my options. I'm leaning more towards declining if/when I get the call and using my money on something else.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tng11

Factoring in that PP had a price cut a few years back, maybe a 20% rise in MSRP isn't that crazy considering the rate of inflation over the years?

What will be interesting to see is what they do with other pieces. Calatravas and annual calendars aren't exactly selling like hot cakes right now, and raising prices on them will further hurt ADs who have these models languish in inventory. But if the prices remain the same, then it might have Patek's desired effect of shifting some interest over to those models. At least I can speak for myself personally, being in the market for a 5712/1A - the value proposition of an annual calendar like the 5396 or 5205 becomes a lot more attractive relatively speaking after this price increase assuming the prices of those models stay the same.

Does anyone also think it's bizarre that this increase was announced only for these two models, but only to take effect March 1? What incentive is there for an AD who receives these models to deliver them from now until March 1st - they may as well hold them in the safe until March 1 and then deliver them!

At any rate - the new MSRP for the 5712/1A really has me rethinking my options. I'm leaning more towards declining if/when I get the call and using my money on something else.

I think this is a tough one. On one hand a price rise means the watch is in favour and it makes the watch more attractive but ofc less of a value proposition, and by the same token if a watch is passed over then does it make it more undesirable, even tho it is now price favourable?

As for Insider Info, PP and TS have form in sending markets crazy on the WIS equivalent of takeover/merger info, really they need to be regulated.

[key]

Originally Posted by AK797

I think this is actually leading to a consolidation down to a few choice models and brands, and that is helping to drive their markets, and as the resale disparity grows, these brands become more and more appealing as others become less so.

This.

[OH2004]

And someone will pay $1M for a bitcoin in 20 years.

[Helmi]

Originally Posted by tng11

Factoring in that PP had a price cut a few years back, maybe a 20% rise in MSRP isn't that crazy considering the rate of inflation over the years?

What will be interesting to see is what they do with other pieces. Calatravas and annual calendars aren't exactly selling like hot cakes right now, and raising prices on them will further hurt ADs who have these models languish in inventory. But if the prices remain the same, then it might have Patek's desired effect of shifting some interest over to those models. At least I can speak for myself personally, being in the market for a 5712/1A - the value proposition of an annual calendar like the 5396 or 5205 becomes a lot more attractive relatively speaking after this price increase assuming the prices of those models stay the same.

Does anyone also think it's bizarre that this increase was announced only for these two models, but only to take effect March 1? What incentive is there for an AD who receives these models to deliver them from now until March 1st - they may as well hold them in the safe until March 1 and then deliver them!

At any rate - the new MSRP for the 5712/1A really has me rethinking my options. I'm leaning more towards declining if/when I get the call and using my money on something else.

These are valid points and I am thinking about the same. I put 20% deposit on ss 5712 six months back and expected delivery is spring which I suspect immediately after the increase is put in effect. That is not a good feeling. But does it make sense to increase only ss models? Then what happens to 5712r/g? They are cheaper than the new ss 5712 price. It is like saying, because BMW 3 series is very popular, we make it more expensive than the 5 series. Very confusing to me. And I don't think they will increase the production as well, because that will be shooting themselves in the foot as their most popular models will become unpopular or "normally" popular which I don't think they are that naive to it. Interesting times.

[Chiboy]

I imagine PP is trying to manage price and supply such that demand still exceeds supply so that the exclusivity is still there. But the opportunity for grays to have much margin is diminished.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by lawrenceb

Fewer buyers = higher prices.. this trend will continue.
Cutting distribution created artificial demand, there is no reason for the prices
of certain models that have been made for years to be as high as they are.
The swiss watch industry is on the decline and will continue from now on.

All the brands have cut parts distribution to indy watchmakers to force the end user to send their pieces to the manufacturer so they can collect all the service revenue.

Bottom line is the the swiss watch industry is on the decline and will continue from now on. Younger generation has little interest or appreciation for mechanical timepieces. I expect to see brands combine with others to stay alive.

Is that a hint that you’re going to have a fire sale? Let me know.

[lawrenceb]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Is that a hint that you’re going to have a fire sale? Let me know.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Helmi

These are valid points and I am thinking about the same. I put 20% deposit on ss 5712 six months back and expected delivery is spring which I suspect immediately after the increase is put in effect. That is not a good feeling. But does it make sense to increase only ss models? Then what happens to 5712r/g? They are cheaper than the new ss 5712 price. It is like saying, because BMW 3 series is very popular, we make it more expensive than the 5 series. Very confusing to me. And I don't think they will increase the production as well, because that will be shooting themselves in the foot as their most popular models will become unpopular or "normally" popular which I don't think they are that naive to it. Interesting times.

I think the reality moving forward is that manufacturers are going to have to accept that the premium for gold over SS is going to narrow. It always seemed crazy to me that manufacturers were charging upwards of $20K for at most, $3-4K worth of gold in bracelet pieces (fine, you could quibble that gold may be harder to finish or work with), and the market has pretty much spoken to that.

See for instance the delta between a BNIB 116500 and 116509 - the SS is going for a premium while the WG is going for a substantial discount such that the difference is now around $8-10K, when the MSRP difference is more like $20K. Or the 5711 where SS is going for $40K while RG can still be had at the $51.5K MSRP when the gap in retail is more than $26K at the old prices.

It would seem bizarre if the 5712/1A is more expensive than the 5712R/G - but you could rationalize part of it in that the 1A has a bracelet which requires a lot of extra work assembling and finishing. I would expect an increase for the gold models - but not by the same 20%. The 5712G is a slow mover and you'll get taken to the cleaners on resale (the R does much better.)

There are many days where I've definitely turned my mind to the gold versions of watches I want as now they seem like comparative bargains to the SS brethren. Ultimately, I still end up going SS as it better suits my lifestyle.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by tng11

Does anyone also think it's bizarre that this increase was announced only for these two models, but only to take effect March 1? What incentive is there for an AD who receives these models to deliver them from now until March 1st - they may as well hold them in the safe until March 1 and then deliver them!

This is a good question. The timing of the announcement is weird. Especially since no one is likely getting deliveries of either impacted model in the next 30 days. Why not just announce the increase along with the other models later rather than creating this angst?

[tng11]

Originally Posted by kilyung

This is a good question. The timing of the announcement is weird. Especially since no one is likely getting deliveries of either impacted model in the next 30 days. Why not just announce the increase along with the other models later rather than creating this angst?

Maybe that's their plan to move some Calatravas. People will now run to their ADs until March 1st to pick up non-5711/5712 models as they seem like relative bargains. The big surprise come March 1st - no increase on non-Nautilus references!

[Helmi]

Originally Posted by tng11

I think the reality moving forward is that manufacturers are going to have to accept that the premium for gold over SS is going to narrow. It always seemed crazy to me that manufacturers were charging upwards of $20K for at most, $3-4K worth of gold in bracelet pieces (fine, you could quibble that gold may be harder to finish or work with), and the market has pretty much spoken to that.

See for instance the delta between a BNIB 116500 and 116509 - the SS is going for a premium while the WG is going for a substantial discount such that the difference is now around $8-10K, when the MSRP difference is more like $20K. Or the 5711 where SS is going for $40K while RG can still be had at the $51.5K MSRP when the gap in retail is more than $26K at the old prices.

It would seem bizarre if the 5712/1A is more expensive than the 5712R/G - but you could rationalize part of it in that the 1A has a bracelet which requires a lot of extra work assembling and finishing. I would expect an increase for the gold models - but not by the same 20%. The 5712G is a slow mover and you'll get taken to the cleaners on resale (the R does much better.)

There are many days where I've definitely turned my mind to the gold versions of watches I want as now they seem like comparative bargains to the SS brethren. Ultimately, I still end up going SS as it better suits my lifestyle.

Good points. Then in that case more people will be buying the g models if they see them very close in value to ss as they look very similar (white metal) and you get gold rather than steel. Or am I missing something?

[bobernet]

More gold is more good.

[tinygears]

Is there a presumption that the increase will affect the entire SS nautilus line, or just the 5711/12?

[ap1]

Originally Posted by kilyung

This is a good question. The timing of the announcement is weird. Especially since no one is likely getting deliveries of either impacted model in the next 30 days. Why not just announce the increase along with the other models later rather than creating this angst?

To desensitize us from the widespread increase?

[radika]

More and more unattainable to me.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by bobernet

The Royal Oak Jumbo is going to be the “original ” Genta. :-)

FTFY

Originally Posted by ap1

To desensitize us from the widespread increase?

I’m thinking to tip the ADs off in order to sell all of this years 5711/12 shipments at the higher price. Any new ones are headed straight for the vault until March first

[ap1]

^ totally agree, no way they deliver til 3/2

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by ap1

^ totally agree, no way they deliver til 3/2

Added bonus they stoke the hype machine 2 months before Basel even begins and as mentioned create a possible run on anything desirable non 5711/12A left in stock.

[Greenp]

If there is a price increase than you probably don’t have worry about them being discontinued any time soon. :)

[kronomentro]

Originally Posted by tng11

I think the reality moving forward is that manufacturers are going to have to accept that the premium for gold over SS is going to narrow. It always seemed crazy to me that manufacturers were charging upwards of $20K for at most, $3-4K worth of gold in bracelet pieces (fine, you could quibble that gold may be harder to finish or work with), and the market has pretty much spoken to that.

See for instance the delta between a BNIB 116500 and 116509 - the SS is going for a premium while the WG is going for a substantial discount such that the difference is now around $8-10K, when the MSRP difference is more like $20K. Or the 5711 where SS is going for $40K while RG can still be had at the $51.5K MSRP when the gap in retail is more than $26K at the old prices.

It would seem bizarre if the 5712/1A is more expensive than the 5712R/G - but you could rationalize part of it in that the 1A has a bracelet which requires a lot of extra work assembling and finishing. I would expect an increase for the gold models - but not by the same 20%. The 5712G is a slow mover and you'll get taken to the cleaners on resale (the R does much better.)

There are many days where I've definitely turned my mind to the gold versions of watches I want as now they seem like comparative bargains to the SS brethren. Ultimately, I still end up going SS as it better suits my lifestyle.

Very good points. Since this price increase is to be seen in the flagship steel 5711/5712, it begs the question: does anyone know how many of these models are produced each year? also we all know of the Tiffany premium, but how many of the annually produced steel 5711/12 are with Tiffany stamp?

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by tng11

I think the reality moving forward is that manufacturers are going to have to accept that the premium for gold over SS is going to narrow. It always seemed crazy to me that manufacturers were charging upwards of $20K for at most, $3-4K worth of gold in bracelet pieces (fine, you could quibble that gold may be harder to finish or work with), and the market has pretty much spoken to that.

See for instance the delta between a BNIB 116500 and 116509 - the SS is going for a premium while the WG is going for a substantial discount such that the difference is now around $8-10K, when the MSRP difference is more like $20K. Or the 5711 where SS is going for $40K while RG can still be had at the $51.5K MSRP when the gap in retail is more than $26K at the old prices.

It would seem bizarre if the 5712/1A is more expensive than the 5712R/G - but you could rationalize part of it in that the 1A has a bracelet which requires a lot of extra work assembling and finishing. I would expect an increase for the gold models - but not by the same 20%. The 5712G is a slow mover and you'll get taken to the cleaners on resale (the R does much better.)

There are many days where I've definitely turned my mind to the gold versions of watches I want as now they seem like comparative bargains to the SS brethren. Ultimately, I still end up going SS as it better suits my lifestyle.

Hell, with the help of people here, I sourced two 5711r’s at 48 from ADs a couple months ago.

[Chute]

This sucks. I was finally working myself up to spend $25k for a white 5711 if I could find one at msrp. Now that it’s almost thirty, I’m tapping out. It would’ve been nice to own a Patek but it’s not gonna happen now.

[kneedeep]

Raising MSRP prices on the 5711 and 5712 is totally logical. Not upping production, frustrating legitimate customers and foregoing the profits PP could make on selling a well thought out number of incremental units at the higher prices versus putting watches into the market that are not demanded and don't sell is not logical to me. Playing the exclusivity card indefinitely on very expensive stainless watches is a risky strategy IMO. Times change, tastes change, some people move on. My