ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
28 February 2010, 08:10 AM | #1 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
My Tudor 7928 Sub Saga **Billjetpilot**
OK, I have decided it’s time to post the saga of my Tudor Sub which I purchased from (a forum member, but bought on eBay) here for all to see and to make those aware of just what you should be aware of when you buy vintage or anything for that matter. I purchased my 7928 back in Dec. and for those who forgot I had a hell of a time (long wait) during shipping. Anyway, fast-forward a couple of months and one morning while I was winding my baby the winding stem broke, I almost passed out. Oh well, off to Rolex, I figured they would be able to take care of it. I get the watch back 2 weeks later with a letter telling me that they are unable to repair the watch due to exhausted stocks. I searched and finally found a watchmaker nearby who was willing to repair my watch; he has been in business and repairing watches including Rolex since 1973.
I received a call the other day from the watchmaker and he told me that the watch most likely hadn’t ever seen a service and if it did then it was ages ago!! He told me the movement was oxidized and dry as a bone and full of shavings from worn parts which was one of the reasons the stem broke while I was winding it. OK, here’s where it gets good, so stay with me. I filed a PayPal dispute for the repair cost , since it was so long since I purchased the watch I needed to file so that I didn’t get stiffed. I also contacted the seller because when the watch was sold to me, it was sold under the pretense that it was serviced recently and as a matter of fact when he sent the watch to his watchmaker to have the case back and dial installed he claimed the watchmaker said the watch was great and had no problems. Paypal closes the dispute without even asking me any questions based on the following posted by the seller: Quote:
My watchmaker has taken photos and will be posting them on his website as an example of what happens when you do not properly care for your watch and have it serviced regularly. He will also be taking after shots to post as well. I will be posting the photos as soon at they are sent to me or posted on his site. I would have NEVER bought this watch had I know it was never serviced. I think the seller knew it was a lemon and needed to pawn it off on someone else. So, let this be a lesson to all of you who go looking for deals on the internet, sometimes they are not as good as they seem. I paid $2,500 for the watch, another $500 for a vintage rivet bracelet and now I have to pay for the service to get the watch fixed, cleaned and pressure tested. My watchmaker said he will have to make some of the parts that have worn. I could get a list of parts and try to find them and get them to him but I am just going to let him fix it. I am sick and upset at the entire situation and just had to vent. I have had the watch on my wrist about a half dozen times since I received it and now it will be in service another month! |
|
28 February 2010, 10:14 AM | #2 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: Rick
Location: At what TIME?!!!
Watch: the SKY tonite!
Posts: 3,225
|
Steve, that sucks.
A 3 day, or 7 day return policy might sound good, but who can get a good examination in such a short time. I might suggest to others who buy off of Ebay, to contact the seller and request that the watch be sent straight away to a RSC for an evaluation, and the expense (~150.00USD) would be the buyers, if the buyer were the winning bidder. This would definitely help in a PAYPAL dispute if the watch is a fake, or worst - STOLEN! Steve, I hope the expense of rejuvenating your Tudor is minimal, past the normal service costs! |
28 February 2010, 10:43 AM | #3 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Jack
Location: Dothan
Watch: Cartier
Posts: 1,236
|
If its true.
PM Name of the seller which is a member here, so I can have the chance not to buy from him or her.
|
28 February 2010, 11:54 AM | #4 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: David Walz
Location: San Diego CA USA
Watch: my hand. :)
Posts: 9,156
|
Steve, if the other TRF member who sold you the watch, see's this, and the phtotos of the repairs, maybe they will pay for the repairs to make it right.
That is the least they can do to make it right. And also keep the other TRF members from throwing him/her under the bus. |
28 February 2010, 05:08 PM | #5 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
I will post the name at a later date, he is not very active here. Im on my mobile now but will update later.
|
28 February 2010, 05:47 PM | #6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Real Name: Ashley
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,967
|
Steve, I'm really sorry to hear this. I hope it gets resolved quickly and cheaply.
To be honest, before reading this, I wouldn't really think about getting a watch serviced. That said, I know nothing about watches. |
1 March 2010, 01:17 AM | #7 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2009
Real Name: Matt
Location: The 505
Watch: Love em' all!!
Posts: 1,237
|
Quote:
Ashley I can always count on your posts to make me smile You have such a carefree and genuine approach to things!! |
|
1 March 2010, 05:35 AM | #8 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,495
|
Steve, sorry to hear about your Tudor .... I remember how excited you were when you bought it.
If you have the emails of the seller stating it was recently serviced I would forward them to paypal. |
1 March 2010, 06:23 AM | #9 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Florida
Posts: 16,625
|
Sorry to hear about this.
I know you do not want to mention the TRF name, but how about his Ebay feedback, how does that measure? Do you still have a copy of the Ebay listing stating the watch was serviced. That would help on the resolution. I do not think he will pay for the full service, but maybe he will make it right and pick up half of tab... |
1 March 2010, 06:53 AM | #10 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
I have forwarded all the emails I have to Paypal, but I really don't see that it will help, PP got their fee and so did eBay, so for them it's all good.
I truthfully think the seller knew what it had as he is very knowledgeable with regard to vintage watches, and his said his watchmaker told him it was in good shape. Now, I really find this hard to believe. Now, the seller was really great during the entire selling period. He shipped the watch just how I asked, USPS Registered. The package took a very long time, 3 weeks I believe, I got anxious and filed a PP dispute because I couldn't see the tracking. Paypal found the dispute in my favor and a couple of days after the watch showed up. I of course reimbursed the seller. I bought the watch with my credit card and I told the seller that the funds weren't automatically returned to me and that they returned to the credit card and to please wait 2 days for the funds to be credited to my card. The seller went berserk and told me that he wanted his money back right now which right after he filed a Paypal dispute on me for fraud! He claimed I was trying to keep the money and the watch! I had to take money out of my savings account to pay him. He actually thought that I would keep the watch and post pictures on the internet and then not reimburse him after telling him it arrived! What a guy. Anyway the seller will not answer any of my emails and I'm stuck paying the watchmaker for the repair of the watch. Anyway, let this be a lesson to all. |
1 March 2010, 07:06 AM | #11 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
Here's the last email I received from him...He plainly states the watch was serviced here as well...
Quote:
|
|
1 March 2010, 07:09 AM | #12 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
Billjetpilot is not an honest seller.
Do not buy from Billjetpilot
Please read my Tudor Sub saga here for further explanation. http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=117123 |
1 March 2010, 07:43 AM | #13 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: Skunk Hollow, TX
Watch: Rolex 116613LN Sub
Posts: 2,198
|
Quote:
What ever you do Ashley ......................... Don't try to buy batteries for it !
__________________
JJ ........... Still missing you bro. May you enjoy the eternal peace the almighty has blessed you with. |
|
1 March 2010, 07:49 AM | #14 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: Jason
Location: Tejas
Watch: Invicta
Posts: 1,066
|
At the end of the day, it is up for either the seller to prove it was serviced or the buyer that it was not. If I am going to sell a watch as being serviced, you better believe I will be providing a receipt or proof of service.
|
1 March 2010, 07:55 AM | #15 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
The proof will be the pictures of the corroded freaking movement with shavings I will be posting as soon as I get them from the watchmaker....
|
1 March 2010, 07:58 AM | #16 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: David Walz
Location: San Diego CA USA
Watch: my hand. :)
Posts: 9,156
|
Steve, I had a timer for a safe which is the same type of movement as a watch. The timer had failed and when I removed the timer from the safe to take it in for service brass dust came out of it, not good end result is a big repair bill on a timer that was used every day for 15 years. If it was serviced every five years it would not have as much damage. Just a note for other TRF members about watches that do not get serviced they end up grinding the gears and pivots. I hope the best for you and your watch.
David |
1 March 2010, 08:02 AM | #17 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: David Walz
Location: San Diego CA USA
Watch: my hand. :)
Posts: 9,156
|
|
1 March 2010, 08:28 AM | #18 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Christopher
Location: fort lauderdale
Watch: Bunches
Posts: 1,860
|
Thats why if I purchase a watch if there is no proof of a service takeing place (IT DIDENT HAPPEN!!!!!) Hope it all worke out Nicko
|
2 March 2010, 08:05 AM | #19 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Bill
Location: littleton
Posts: 17
|
Some buyers simply can't be pleased.
There are two sides to every story. Here is my side:
I tried very hard to satisfy Nicko. I answered every one of his emails. I held his hand throughout the slow shipping process (he requested registered mail) even though he filed a dispute against me and won. After he received the watch, he didn't answer any of my emails requesting that he pay for it. He finally paid only after I filed my own dispute. I gave him a 3 day money back period to have the watch inspected. He was very happy with his watch and left me positive feedback. Almost a month later, Nicko filed another dispute against me on Paypal without even trying contacting me first. I felt bad about what happened and offered to help pay for the repair if the would drop the dispute against me. Nicko has refused to drop the dispute and Paypal has ruled in my favor. I have been a seller on eBay and Timezone for 10 years and I have 100% positive feedback. Billjetpilot |
2 March 2010, 12:19 PM | #20 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Bill
Location: littleton
Posts: 17
|
Here are some shots as viewed through a display back:
Here are some quick shots of the actual movement just before it was sent to Nicko. Hardly the corroded frozen movement that Nicko claims is in the watch. The watch was checked out by my watchmaker (I have worked with for 15 years) and was in perfect operating condition. As I stated before, the previous owner (a very respected Timezone seller) assured me the watch had been serviced. I am not a dishonest seller. I have over 10 years of buying and selling watches with a perfect 100% positive feedback.
Billjetpilot |
2 March 2010, 12:52 PM | #21 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Real Name: Kevin
Location: Texas on my mind
Watch: Sub Date; SS/WG DJ
Posts: 2,445
|
Hmmm...maybe y'all oughta resolve this in private? Either way hope everyone is satisfied at the end.
__________________
16610 Submariner Date; D Serial 16234 DateJust SS with WG Fluted Bezel & Jubillee, White Roman Dial; F Serial 16570 Explorer II White Dial; M Serial And Hers: 78240 Mid-Size DateJust SS with Domed Bezel & Oyster, White Roman; D Serial |
2 March 2010, 03:17 PM | #22 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Real Name: Alex
Location: Alexandria, VA
Watch: 116520
Posts: 6
|
After reading through the thread, I am siding with the seller. It doesn't look like he misrepresented the watch and it sounds like the buyer gave him quite a hard time.
|
2 March 2010, 05:05 PM | #23 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
Quote:
Nicko didn't have time to drop the dispute because PayPal canceled it the same day! Look.... As for the slow shipping, if you read my posts I commended you on all the help you gave me throughout the process.... I also explained why I filed the dispute... Hang tight and wait for the photos that will be forthcoming, they will tell the real story of the watch and it's lack of service. BTW, if you are open to communication you can PM me if you wish. Now everyone has heard your side of the story as well but it does not alter the fact that the watch lacked service even though I was old it was not. |
|
2 March 2010, 05:08 PM | #24 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
We will settle this in private, but Bill won't answer my emails....
The movement pics are really nice and they are the same ones I received from the seller, I will be posting some movement pics myself from my watchmaker, so hang tight. |
2 March 2010, 05:46 PM | #25 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 36,951
|
I am just slipping out to buy some popcorn.
Back in a minute guys. So Nicky, did you pass the exam or are you still in training?
__________________
E |
2 March 2010, 06:06 PM | #26 | ||
Facilitator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Real Name: Steve
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 33,269
|
So are you saying that the photos posted by the seller are not of the watch you purchased?
Quote:
Saying it was sold under 'the pretense' is your conclusion of what happened, but what in fact was said by the seller as to the issue of the watch being serviced prior to you saying 'yes' I'll take it. Anything said after that time is not really relevant as you had already agreed to buy the watch. Quote:
You should only say something like that if you 'know'. As you didn't say 'I know' then you can't really say what the seller knew or intended by the sale. Maybe you and the seller need to sit down and talk about what can be done to resolve this. It seems the seller is prepared to discuss the situation. I don't think making multiple threads really helps the situation either.
__________________
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. ~Abraham Lincoln Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy ROLEXploitation - yeah I'm a victim |
||
2 March 2010, 06:13 PM | #27 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not here anymore
Posts: 4,787
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2 March 2010, 06:24 PM | #28 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 36,951
|
I am still interested to see the pix from your watchmaker.
__________________
E |
2 March 2010, 06:28 PM | #29 |
Facilitator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Real Name: Steve
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 33,269
|
I'm more concerned about trying to get a resolution to this situation. To try and at least bring both parties to a situation where they can put this behind them and move on, rather than go backwards and forwards again and again.
The seller is obviously welcome to contact the buyer directly but if he wishes he can put any offer to resolve this to me and I'll pass it onto the buyer.
__________________
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. ~Abraham Lincoln Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy ROLEXploitation - yeah I'm a victim |
2 March 2010, 09:30 PM | #30 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 131
|
Given the information posted here the seller is innocent until proven guilty. The only proof that will change my mind are the photos that Nicko has been promising for the last 2 days. We are sitting tight......we are waiting......where are the photos?
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.