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Old 13 February 2020, 01:25 AM   #31
samson66
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Originally Posted by WyoWatch View Post
You should be able to get 20-25% off at an AD pretty easily. I've never bought a new Omega for less than 20% off MSRP and that's always been from an AD.
Maybe it's dependent on the specific watch but I went to two ADs in the last three months and the best they would do is 10%. Occasionally they offer a "friends and family" weekend at the end of the year for 15% but that's the biggest discount I was ever offered on an Omega.
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Old 13 February 2020, 01:47 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by mahlia0121 View Post
Thanks! Great tip. I’m very new to the idea of a discount. I’ve always bought Rolex at AD, and that price really is the lowest, so I’m having to adjust my mindset.


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It is a different way of thinking for sure.

My Omega boutique treats me very well. I can set up an appointment if I want the red carpet treatment. They will dedicate a salesman to me that will let me try on any model as well as answer any of my questions. If I want a model that is being released, I call them up and tell them to get one for me. No list. No being laughed at. No attitude of "I am doing YOU a favor".

As far as a soft MSRP: I do not buy my watches as an investment, I buy them because I like them. I have owned 5 Omegas and now own 4, the one I sold was a vintage piece and it no longer appealed to me. I will certainly be adding more to my collection.
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Old 13 February 2020, 02:25 AM   #33
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I just cannot pay 20% more for an item that costs thousands ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geckobros View Post
It is a different way of thinking for sure.

My Omega boutique treats me very well. I can set up an appointment if I want the red carpet treatment. They will dedicate a salesman to me that will let me try on any model as well as answer any of my questions. If I want a model that is being released, I call them up and tell them to get one for me. No list. No being laughed at. No attitude of "I am doing YOU a favor".

As far as a soft MSRP: I do not buy my watches as an investment, I buy them because I like them. I have owned 5 Omegas and now own 4, the one I sold was a vintage piece and it no longer appealed to me. I will certainly be adding more to my collection.
Because the staff schmoozes me.
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Old 13 February 2020, 02:33 AM   #34
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The only reason that Omega has created boutiques is to maintain the illusion of exclusivity, class and to zero discounts because they know all ADs discount Omegas deeply. It has always been the case.

The problems with ADs is that Omega/Swatch Groups are moving towards a business models where they do more and more limited editions to sell online or via boutique only to keep 100% of the profit themselves while they make ADs stock the generic stuff, ergo no discounts on highly coveted models.
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Old 13 February 2020, 04:02 AM   #35
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The only reason that Omega has created boutiques is to maintain the illusion of exclusivity, class and to zero discounts because they know all ADs discount Omegas deeply. It has always been the case.

The problems with ADs is that Omega/Swatch Groups are moving towards a business models where they do more and more limited editions to sell online or via boutique only to keep 100% of the profit themselves while they make ADs stock the generic stuff, ergo no discounts on highly coveted models.
I don't completely disagree with you on this. Where we differ in opinion is I believe their business model as a whole is, "Everyone is a VIP." while they do have some models that cater to "the club". I don't see them shifting towards exclusivity in general.

As for as LE's... Omega.. please, just stop.
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Old 13 February 2020, 04:04 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by scarlet knight View Post
Because the staff schmoozes me.
As a paying customer, shouldn't you expect "shmoozing" IE. excellent customer service? Or do you simply plunk your money down when you are treated like a pleb? Our standards may differ.
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Old 13 February 2020, 04:07 AM   #37
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I was at an Omega boutique today. I stop in occasionally but yet to buy. Had a good talk with an SA/WIS for awhile. They will discount. We talked AD vs grey and he knew exactly where I was coming from. The time to deal is when your ready to 'buy now'. I'll be back for a Speedy this summer. I'm thinking of a number, if we're close He'll close the deal if not I'll walk, telling him I'll think, if he calls back in a few days cool, if not then I'll go grey.

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Good plan, pretty much mine too when I'm ready to buy my Speedmaster. I'll try an AD in New Hampshire first and see what happens.

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Old 13 February 2020, 06:15 AM   #38
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I get 15-17% of most with my AD. The only one I haven’t is my Apollo 11 understandably.
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Old 13 February 2020, 07:32 AM   #39
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Not looking to argue at all

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Originally Posted by Geckobros View Post
As a paying customer, shouldn't you expect "shmoozing" IE. excellent customer service? Or do you simply plunk your money down when you are treated like a pleb? Our standards may differ.
But I go to boutiques for events and to look, but I am likely to buy from an AD at 20% off. I get treated nicely at both places.
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Old 13 February 2020, 07:38 AM   #40
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Cannot understand why anyone would buy from a boutique vs. an AD. AD all day cause they'll give you a deep discount.
+1. Totally agree.
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Old 13 February 2020, 08:26 AM   #41
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But I go to boutiques for events and to look, but I am likely to buy from an AD at 20% off. I get treated nicely at both places.
My misunderstanding.
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Old 13 February 2020, 08:45 AM   #42
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Maybe it's dependent on the specific watch but I went to two ADs in the last three months and the best they would do is 10%. Occasionally they offer a "friends and family" weekend at the end of the year for 15% but that's the biggest discount I was ever offered on an Omega.
20+% is on every Omega I've ever bought including popular and newly released models. I think it has more to do with the AD, their willingness to discount, and your relationship with them than anything. The last point being the key. I can see them not offering more than 10 or 15% without being a long time established customer.
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Old 13 February 2020, 10:13 AM   #43
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Pisses me off that they let this happen.

One of my major turn offs about the brand.


Yep. Had my FOIS that I bought for $3700. Retail is $5900. Loved it. Was never going to sell it. But someone wanted it worse than I did and I looked around and can replace it for $3200 if I get the itch again.

But I have liquidated a bunch lately so this was just one of a few.


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Old 13 February 2020, 10:30 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Geckobros View Post
It is a different way of thinking for sure.

My Omega boutique treats me very well. I can set up an appointment if I want the red carpet treatment. They will dedicate a salesman to me that will let me try on any model as well as answer any of my questions. If I want a model that is being released, I call them up and tell them to get one for me. No list. No being laughed at. No attitude of "I am doing YOU a favor".

As far as a soft MSRP: I do not buy my watches as an investment, I buy them because I like them. I have owned 5 Omegas and now own 4, the one I sold was a vintage piece and it no longer appealed to me. I will certainly be adding more to my collection.


I enjoyed visiting the boutique immensely. I donít buy my watches as an investment either, I was just shocked realizing how much value they lose in such a short amount of time if you pay retail.

I do love the idea that you can get anything that has been released. No waiting list.




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Old 13 February 2020, 10:32 PM   #45
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Yep. Had my FOIS that I bought for $3700. Retail is $5900. Loved it. Was never going to sell it. But someone wanted it worse than I did and I looked around and can replace it for $3200 if I get the itch again.

But I have liquidated a bunch lately so this was just one of a few.


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I used to own that watch. My wife borrowed it constantly, so I gave it to her. She loves it. Itís her daily wear.


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Old 13 February 2020, 10:39 PM   #46
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And 99% of the watch buying public aren't us. If they were, a Rolex would be as common as a Prius. And then we'd complain about that...
Rolex are a lot more common than a Prius.
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Old 14 February 2020, 12:06 AM   #47
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20+% is on every Omega I've ever bought including popular and newly released models. I think it has more to do with the AD, their willingness to discount, and your relationship with them than anything. The last point being the key. I can see them not offering more than 10 or 15% without being a long time established customer.
I have a pretty good relationship with this particular AD. I have now bought two watches, two bracelets, and a leather strap w/ deployant from them over the last couple years. And even with all that, 15% was the best offer I got on the Omega. They do a good business and she told me once they put it in the case it will be gone by the end of the day (slight exaggeration maybe). They just don't need to discount to sell watches there. The customer without a relationship probably gets 10% off there tops if anything at all. When I bought my old Tudor Black Bay they gave me ~15% on that one.
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Old 14 February 2020, 09:42 AM   #48
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That is one of my favorite watches. Yes, I purchased it at a boutique. I'm in there all the time and they are always super nice and offering me drinks and showing me watches that aren't in the case. They take really good care of me. They have been able to get LE watches that were supposed to be sold out. I don't know how they do this, but I think because it's OB and and AD they can look at inventory and maybe pull from other stores. This happened with Ultraman and Hodinkee.
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Old 14 February 2020, 11:00 AM   #49
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PS: That SeaMP is a nicer watch than the YMOF...


Ok, I give up. What is the YMOF? Call me a noob... haha


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Old 14 February 2020, 12:27 PM   #50
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Pisses me off that they let this happen.

One of my major turn offs about the brand.
In the Rolex section people complain about not being able to buy steel sports models at ADs. In the Omega section people complain about anyone being able to walk in and buy any steel sports model they want!
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Old 14 February 2020, 09:54 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by mahlia0121 View Post
Ok, I give up. What is the YMOF? Call me a noob... haha


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I'm guessing yacht master oyster 'something'
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Old 14 February 2020, 09:56 PM   #52
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I'm guessing yacht master oyster 'something'


Yacht Master OysterFlex! Ha! Got it. Haha. Thanks!


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Old 14 February 2020, 09:57 PM   #53
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In the Rolex section people complain about not being able to buy steel sports models at ADs. In the Omega section people complain about anyone being able to walk in and buy any steel sports model they want!


I wouldn't complain about any company meeting customer demand. Getting 18% off and LE can only be a good thing

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Old 14 February 2020, 09:58 PM   #54
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Yacht Master OysterFlex! Ha! Got it. Haha. Thanks!


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Wow. I'm now quite impressed I actually got most of it. I'm not a Rolex guy
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Old 14 February 2020, 10:13 PM   #55
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Wow. I'm now quite impressed I actually got most of it. I'm not a Rolex guy


Impressed! I had gotten as far as yacht master. Thanks!


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Old 15 February 2020, 05:20 AM   #56
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but the YMOF is gold, Gold, GOLD!
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Old 15 February 2020, 05:36 AM   #57
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Pisses me off that they let this happen.

One of my major turn offs about the brand.
Brands are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Rolex lets the gray market resell at stupid markups and everyone's pissed at Rolex, saying they're purposefully restricting supply to drive up the reputation and pricing and that they should do something about flippers and grays.

And Omega is producing an amazing watch, in sufficient numbers to meet demand (or slightly exceed, since there are discounts) and people are pissed off that the watch depreciates.

In the end, they're just commodities. The Rolex bubble will burst, at some point and a lot of people will be left holding expensive pieces they can't dump any anything resembling a reasonable price.

It's funny to watch the hand wringing about resale value. I'll buy a watch to wear. If I need or want to sell it, bonus if it's worth more, but I fully expect it to not fetch a profit.
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Old 15 February 2020, 06:27 AM   #58
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First, to address the question, "Why does Omega allow this to happen?" The answer is simple, because they make more money this way. It is business school 101 that profit is maximized when marginal revenue and the marginal cost of production are equal. As long as Omega can sell another unit for a price above the marginal cost to produce that unit (inclusive of all overhead, transportation costs, etc.) then they should if their interest is maximizing profitability and share holder value. As Omega the brand is owned by the publicly traded Swatch Group, their interest is undoubtedly the maximization of profit / shareholder value, and the time horizon for that maximization is likely on the order of quarters or a small number of years at the longest.

It is no different for ADs. As long as the "after discounts" revenue associated with the marginal sale is greater than the marginal cost of the watch to the AD, then they should make the sale. Obviously there is some art to determining what the minimum discount is that will get the deal done. However, as long as the sale contributes margin then the profit maximizing decision is to make the sale.

Secondly, there are two reasons a buyer normally sees the value of a watch, whatever the brand, drop when they walk out of an AD. The first reason is that the price they paid is greater than the prevailing market price in their chosen sales channel. Said another way, the buyer failed to negotiate their best price within their preferred channel. Say they received only a 5% discount at the AD when average buyer receives a 15% discount. In this case the buyer will see a immediate 10% drop in value associated with their below average negotiation ability. The second reason is that the level of trust is higher in the AD channel then in either the grey market or private party channels. Perceived risk on the part of the buyer is lower in the AD channel. Lower perceived risk on the part of the buyer is associated with a higher willingness to pay. For this reason market prices tend to be highest in the lowest risk channels. For watches this means AD market price is normally greater than grey market price, and grey market price is higher than private party sales price. Even among grey market and private party sales, some sellers with long track records of reliable transactions can command higher prices than other sellers in the same channel.

How all of that relates to value retention of Omegas is simple. MSRP in the AD channel is normally higher than the market clearing price because Omega is setting its production at the level that it believes will maximize profitability in the short to medium run. They know that there is still much profit to be realized when selling watches at a discount to MSRP, so they make more. Consumers who buy their watch in the AD channel (or grey market channel) are then faced with selling it in higher risk / lower price private party channel. The loss associate with having to move to a higher risk channel when selling are compounded by losses associated with any discount "left on the table" during the negotiation at the time of purchase in the AD channel.

The current situation with Rolex's SS watches is the result of a market inefficiency in the AD channel. For whatever reason, be it intentional or not, Rolex has set production of SS watches at a level below the profit maximizing level. Because Rolex has simultaneously artificially capped pricing in the AD channel at MSRP, it has created an arbitrage opportunity for those buyers able to secure a SS watch through an AD. If Rolex decided to either a) increase production to the profit maximizing level, or b) allow ADs to sell at the actual market clearing price within the channel, then you would see the same value retention behavior for Rolex watches as for Omega watches - only at a higher average price level across the various sales channels.

Sorry for the novel of a post. I hope folks find it interesting.
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Old 15 February 2020, 09:34 AM   #59
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Nicely put!

Using marginal pricing/production strategies, for luxury goods, may not be such a good long-term strategy and, unfortunately, public companies get blindsided by the shareholder value prime directive. In fact, much (most?) of the value here is based on luxury perception so Omega needs to heed this concept. Given the recent Speedmaster 321 release, it seems they are becoming more aggressive on this front. Also, their "limited edition" strategy might be another method to create scarcity. However since they seem to release multitudes of LE's every year it gets lost in the minds of wristwatch enthusiasts, maybe not to the general consumer.
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Old 15 February 2020, 09:34 AM   #60
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It's funny to watch the hand wringing about resale value. I'll buy a watch to wear. If I need or want to sell it, bonus if it's worth more, but I fully expect it to not fetch a profit.


People are never happy.

People complain Rolex watches are unavailable and they can't find any at retail making them too hard and expensive to buy.

Omega watches are readily available and due to this can be bought for a discount new and used. People complain about value.
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