Remember when Chinese junk meant one of these...

[Blansky]

Tried to use my Amazon special toaster this morning and it was broken. Bought it in May or June.

When I was growing up, junk was usually from Japan or Taiwan. Something broke and you looked at the bottom and said, "no wonder, it's made in Japan." By the 1980s all that had changed and even Japanese cars were better or equal to American.

Once Walmart and Amazon became a world force basically EVERYTHING was made in China. Something like 90,000 cargo ships are floating around.

Look at almost any product that had a very good history is now made in China and has extremely spotty customer reviews. (although the reviews are probably bogus anyways).

It's not that China can't make great products, (see iPhone) but for some reason EVERYTHING is meant to be landfill in 3 years and a lot of the stuff can't even make that.

And now my coffee is cold. DAMMIT

End of rant.

[Speedbird-1]

During my childhood in the UK, 'Made in Hong Kong', generally meant, 'cheap crap'.
A lot of the, dangerous, poorly made, illegal, non-compliant goods, appear to be Made in China these days.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

During my childhood in the UK, 'Made in Hong Kong', generally meant, 'cheap crap'.
A lot of the, dangerous, poorly made, illegal, non-compliant goods, appear to be Made in China these days.

Yep.

Plastic also was crap, and now look where we are.

[MrGoat]

They’re made for the throw away instead of repair mind set that most Americans have these days. You bought it for $50 or whatever price and it lasted a few months. You will throw it away and replace it because it’s too costly to repair. It’s one of the simple explanations as to why China is on track to be the worlds strongest economy in 10 yrs or less.

To keep this post equal I have ordered my fair share of items on Amazon and they’ve came from China. Most of those items held up longer and better than I expected.

We have a problem in America where most of our citizens don’t want to go earn $10-15 an hour working in a factory or any other profession that requires any sort of manual labor. Thus our jobs have been sent to China and the like where they work for whatever wage they can get and support their families. The companies come out roughly the same and China gets paid instead of America. It will not change until Americans decide that an honest wage and a blue collar career is not a detriment to their lifestyle and the American economy is in a position to pay the premium for American made instead of the cheapest thing they can find on eBay or amazon (I’m guilty as well). We will be in this cycle forever unless something drastic happens.


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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

They’re made for the throw away instead of repair mind set that most Americans have these days. You bought it for $50 or whatever price and it lasted a few months. You will throw it away and replace it because it’s too costly to repair. It’s one of the simple explanations as to why China is on track to be the worlds strongest economy in 10 yrs or less.

To keep this post equal I have ordered my fair share of items on Amazon and they’ve came from China. Most of those items held up longer and better than I expected.

We have a problem in America where most of our citizens don’t want to go earn $10-15 an hour working in a factory or any other profession that requires any sort of manual labor. Thus our jobs have been sent to China and the like where they work for whatever wage they can get and support their families. The companies come out roughly the same and China gets paid instead of America. It will not change until Americans decide that an honest wage and a blue collar career is not a detriment to their lifestyle and the American economy is in a position to pay the premium for American made instead of the cheapest thing they can find on eBay or amazon (I’m guilty as well). We will be in this cycle forever unless something drastic happens.


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Fair point. Except I'm not sure where the "decision" came from. I'd say it was corporations (globalization) that moved first for cheap labor, then people had to accept that stuff was all junk. Or maybe a combination of both. But I'd argue it started with Walmart, not people demanding cheap junk.

And in the end, buying things like Black and Decker, just as an example, would last for years and maybe cost more, now it lasts for months and you get to buy 3 or 4.

And at just the same time we are attempting to go green, everything is now hitting the landfills at alarming rates.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Fair point. Except I'm not sure where the "decision" came from. I'd say it was corporations (globalization) that moved first for cheap labor, then people had to accept that stuff was all junk. Or maybe a combination of both.

And in the end, buying things like Black and Decker, just as an example, would last for years and maybe cost more, now it lasts for months and you get to buy 3 or 4.

And at just the same time we are attempting to go green, everything is now hitting the landfills at alarming rates.

I think a combination of more than just those 2 things. I can say one thing, we Americans had better be prepared to “get our hands dirty” again. Money for nothing is at its end.

[joli160]

You get what you pay for.

[twitch54]

LOL, when I was a kid nothing was made in 'China' , it was either Japan or Hong Kong.

In the world of audio quite a bit is made in China today, some stuff quite good, some absolute garbage.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

They’re made for the throw away instead of repair mind set that most Americans have these days. You bought it for $50 or whatever price and it lasted a few months. You will throw it away and replace it because it’s too costly to repair. It’s one of the simple explanations as to why China is on track to be the worlds strongest economy in 10 yrs or less.

To keep this post equal I have ordered my fair share of items on Amazon and they’ve came from China. Most of those items held up longer and better than I expected.

We have a problem in America where most of our citizens don’t want to go earn $10-15 an hour working in a factory or any other profession that requires any sort of manual labor. Thus our jobs have been sent to China and the like where they work for whatever wage they can get and support their families. The companies come out roughly the same and China gets paid instead of America. It will not change until Americans decide that an honest wage and a blue collar career is not a detriment to their lifestyle and the American economy is in a position to pay the premium for American made instead of the cheapest thing they can find on eBay or amazon (I’m guilty as well). We will be in this cycle forever unless something drastic happens.


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You are absolutely correct.

In most parts of US, working at a factory @ those wages is simply not going to happen. That ship has sailed away and is lost @ sea.. Other ways to make money in the digital economy, so people will just do that instead.

Manufacturing products in the US is quite hard. Can’t keep staffing levels high enough for consistent product flow due to reasons stated above. Quality can still be spotty, so it contradicts the perception that domestic production is better...sometimes it just isn’t.

Then costs are dramatically higher and most consumers won’t pay the premium for domestic manufacturing. They “say” they want it...but their money says the don’t really care that much to spend more for it. Just give me the cheap stuff and when it breaks I’ll buy another one. That’s a perpetual replacement cycle that suites low wage manufacturing just fine.

As long as crap oil for freighters is dirt cheap and young people want to take pics of themselves instead of building stuff, nothing will change

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Fair point. Except I'm not sure where the "decision" came from. I'd say it was corporations (globalization) that moved first for cheap labor, then people had to accept that stuff was all junk. Or maybe a combination of both. But I'd argue it started with Walmart, not people demanding cheap junk.

And in the end, buying things like Black and Decker, just as an example, would last for years and maybe cost more, now it lasts for months and you get to buy 3 or 4.

And at just the same time we are attempting to go green, everything is now hitting the landfills at alarming rates.

I believe it all started back at the end of the Korean War when America made an effort to rebuild countries we fought against to stimulate their economies. Then nafta in the early 90’s put the nail in the coffin. This is solely my opinion and thoughts though. I’m open to any discussion or discerning opinions.


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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Then costs are dramatically higher and most consumers won’t pay the premium for domestic manufacturing.

Possibly, but part of the problem is there is no domestic manufacturing on most things.

Trusted names are now just expensive Chinese junk as well. A $200 toaster may not last any longer than a $20 dollar one.

And chances are that more wealthy people will buy the $200 dollar one, and they are already conditioned to throw it away when it breaks as the guy that bought the $20 dollar one. We have become conditioned to toss stuff after a couple of years by this throw away mentality. So spending more money for supposed higher quality becomes meaningless.

Even look at the iPhone thread. People will junk/trade in a one or two year old phone for no real reason other than they get a new one.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

I believe it all started back at the end of the Korean War when America made an effort to rebuild countries we fought against to stimulate their economies. Then nafta in the early 90’s put the nail in the coffin. This is solely my opinion and thoughts though. I’m open to any discussion or discerning opinions.


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Actually it was probably WW2 Japan first. Edwards Deming in an effort to rebuild Japan.

[swils8610]

I remember those days well. Made in Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Korea was just junk.

It’s a shame some many brands that meant quality are now junk.

I’ve got a circular saw and jig saw that my dad bought in the early 60’s and still works great...Black and Decker. Now it’s junk.

Some of the best long things with a barrel are now made in Japan.


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[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Actually it was probably WW2 Japan first. Edwards Deming in an effort to rebuild Japan.

I just meant when we started routing business to China. The US has been doing it for years before after various conflicts.


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[lig]

Crazy evolution in manufacturing. In the saxophone world the best instruments were French. For a short time American horns were up there.

Now some of the Japanese and Taiwanese horns are as good or better than anything made on the planet.

Chinese horns were universally to be avoided but even that is changing now. Most of them are poor but in some factories the quality assurance is respectable.

My backup horn for when there is a chance of a sloppy drunk patron bumping into my gear...

[BreguetRolex]

Originally Posted by joli160

You get what you pay for.

Yes sure agree with this.. !

[BreguetRolex]

You can buy a Italian Pinarello Cycle frame for USD$6500.00 or you can buy a CHINERELLO Frame for $1500.00... You see lots of them floating around forsale on the net..

[zengineer]

There is nothing inherently bad about Chinese manufacturing capability and obviously not with Chinese people. Chinese companies will build you a quality widget but it will cost about what it would to make it in the USA after shipping costs.

China is very good at making huge quantities of low quality, low cost goods. They also churn out BMWs and iPhones that are the same as whatis or could be made anywhere in the world.

If you push the price down with a Chinese supplier and aren't very smart about contracts, specifications and inspection criteria...you will get exactly what you pay for.

Sent from my Motorola Bag Phone

[Speedbird-1]

Even Japanese companies are offshoring their manufacturing to Taiwan, China etc, etc.
Ironically, the Japanese, 'good stuff' is still, proudly......Made in Japan.

The world turns, labour cost will continue to escalate, and before you know it, 'Made in Nigeria', will carry some kudos.

[daveathall]

Chinese and Japanese companies have traditionally been very good at copying products, so much so that the copy, became better made and ultimately, better than the original.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

During my childhood in the UK, 'Made in Hong Kong', generally meant, 'cheap crap'.
A lot of the, dangerous, poorly made, illegal, non-compliant goods, appear to be Made in China these days.

The funny thing is. Made in Taiwan, made in Japan is now sought out as a mark of quality.

[Mifune]

I grew up in these... and I ain't Chinese

[DonRickles]

No mention of “Made in Mexico”.....Its only fair to share the track of global pollution and unfair labor tactics!...

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Mifune

I grew up in these... and I ain't Chinese

I'm guessing you grew up with David Carradine in Kung Fu,........Grasshopper.

"When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, then it's time for you to go"

[swils8610]

Originally Posted by DonRickles

No mention of “Made in Mexico”.....Its only fair to share the track of global pollution and unfair labor tactics!...

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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by DonRickles

No mention of “Made in Mexico”.....Its only fair to share the track of global pollution and unfair labor tactics!...

I'm not too familiar with many "made in Mexico" products and wonder what quality ratings they have.

I know some US companies moved there, probably for environmental regulation reasons and cheap labor but not sure what their products are.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I'm not too familiar with many "made in Mexico" products and wonder what quality ratings they have.

I know some US companies moved there, probably for environmental regulation reasons and cheap labor but not sure what their products are.

I believe quite a bit of parts for “American” cars are made in Mexico. Even some cars I believe.

My Corona light is made there and I am having some issues finding it in stores. Since Covid it’s been very spotty and more so as of late. I have heard the Mexican government shut the breweries down as they weren’t deemed essential there. I have also heard from distributors that the problem with availability is there is currently a bottle shortage in Mexico. To the point where the local ABC liquor was only allocated 12 packs in cans from the distributor.

Most Tequila is also made there and I can’t complain because a few margaritas in and my old lady is incredibly fun.

I’m off to make her a margarita, you guys figure out this made here or there silliness!


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[donq]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I'm not too familiar with many "made in Mexico" products and wonder what quality ratings they have.

I know some US companies moved there, probably for environmental regulation reasons and cheap labor but not sure what their products are.

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...in-mexico.html

[supernova]

There’s a big difference between made in China by a Western company or a Chinese company.

Generally, if it by a western company, they have the same rigorous QA controls in place no matter where it was made (eg. Apple, Nike etc.). I personally wouldn’t pay much attention to where the product was made by a western company.

But I would be more skeptical about products from unknown Chinese companies as they generally cut more corners and have less rigorous QA, no matter where it was made. Tbh same can be probably said of lesser known companies from any country.


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[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by supernova

There’s a big difference between made in China by a Western company or a Chinese company.

Generally, if it by a western company, they have the same rigorous QA controls in place no matter where it was made (eg. Apple, Nike etc.). I personally wouldn’t pay much attention to where the product was made by a western company.

But I would be more skeptical about products from unknown Chinese companies as they generally cut more corners and have less rigorous QA, no matter where it was made. Tbh same can be probably said of lesser known companies from any country.


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Some, turn their nose up at non-Japanese, Nikon products.