Bezels, Inserts, and Pain

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys:

I have talked about this before, but some of the original Rolex inserts, and most of the after-markets, can be a real pain to "re-insert" after they come apart from the bezel.

I had 2 sets of inserts/bezels sitting on my bench; I spent over an hour screwing around with them trying to get them back together. I re-read Jocke's thread, but still nothing but sore thumbs.

I have a little engineering in my background and decided to re-think the whole idea behind this piece of watchmaking. Basically, the bezel and insert are "force fits"; that is they both have almost identical dimensions where they meet. The only way to mate them at the factory (in an efficient manner) would be to have a "Precision Mini Press" setup.....

So....I took my desktop case-back press and found a set of nylon pieces that were close to, but bigger than my bezel and insert (Pepsi GMT 16750).

Then I borrowed a friend's mini-lathe to do the machine work needed. I wanted the bottom piece to hold the bezel firmly in place during the press....I cut it down to 35.95 mm. Perfect; the bottom lip of the bezel slipped onto the disk and hardly moved.

Next, I machined the top piece (it had a beveled edge already) down to 37.40 mm. That dimension was just smaller than the top of the bezel lip and rested on the outer edge of the insert.

I assembled everthing on the press and squeezed gently. They went together so smoothly, they didn't even click! When I looked at the unit under magnification, the insert was flush with the bottom of the bezel lip.

I couldn't believe that it worked so well; 10 seconds of alignment and a little pressure did what I couldn't do in an hour of frustrating work!! The top disk was left a little loose on the screw; this allowed for "self-leveling" as it came into contact with the insert. And, because the disks are nylon, they didn't scatch any of the parts in the process....

OK...so I checked the new press parts with my 16610 and it worked on that set too. I'm sure that the 5512/5513 will be another round at the lathe, but at least I know what has to be done now....

Bottom Line: Here are the pics if you want to attempt this yourself. If you have a problem set and don't want to screw with it, private message me. I would be more than happy to get yours back together (no charge) !

[PanosI]

Wow John, you took the loooong route but you did a great job


Here is the shortcut :

a piece of cloth in the edge of a table and a small but firm press



An here is illustrated by the master himself


http://www.vikbobil.se/bezel.html

[JohnBaker3]

PanosI:

On well used original Rolex parts, his technique works about 95% of the time; the other 5% just cause sore thumbs and trauma to the insert....I'm guessing on after-market parts, it only works 10% of the time....

Ask me how I know..... !!

[accce]

I don't know why it was not designed to push from the bottom.

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by accce

I don't know why it was not designed to push from the bottom.

Oh....you mean the insert going into the bezel from the bottom side....

BRILLIANT IDEA !

When you pressed the unit over the crystal, that could never make them separate!

But it would make it easier to separate when you tried to pry the unit off the crystal....

This makes my head hurt....

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

PanosI:

On well used original Rolex parts, his technique works about 95% of the time; the other 5% just cause sore thumbs and trauma to the insert....I'm guessing on after-market parts, it only works 10% of the time....

Ask me how I know..... !!

+2 I could not get them in either. I had trouble with two new Rolex Bezel Inserts.

How much would it cost to get one of those presses?

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by Frosty

How much would it cost to get one of those presses?

Larry:

Here is an eBay auction for the same one I bought; you will still need to machine 2 of the disks to fit your bezel/insert...

Good luck!



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Watch-Press-...item338e7beccf

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by PanosI

Wow John, you took the loooong route but you did a great job

Here is another quote I came across today that seems appropriate:

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else." - Winston Churchill

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

Here is another quote I came across today that seems appropriate:

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else." - Winston Churchill

[jamesbondOO7]

Originally Posted by PanosI

Wow John, you took the loooong route but you did a great job


Here is the shortcut :

a piece of cloth in the edge of a table and a small but firm press



An here is illustrated by the master himself


http://www.vikbobil.se/bezel.html

I use the edge of a table trick but with the bezel on the watch.
The most difficult bit is ro get the insert out of the bezel the first time. You just kill your thumb ends.

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by jamesbondOO7

You just kill your thumb ends.

That's why I now use "the big silver handle" !!

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys;

I forgot to mention that this same setup can be used to press the bezel/insert unit back onto the watch....

I put a small paper towel over them, align everything, and then press down. It makes a small crunch as it passes the crystal, but it saves the thumbs for a second time in the same day!

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

Hey Guys;

I forgot to mention that this same setup can be used to press the bezel/insert unit back onto the watch....

I put a small paper towel over them, align everything, and then press down. It makes a small crunch as it passes the crystal, but it saves the thumbs for a second time in the same day!

Are we sure this is ok..?

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

Are we sure this is ok..?

I used it twice today to update these bezel inserts; discussed it with Jocke. He says he used to do it this way till he got better equipment.

[rmfnla]

Well, a "crunch" would make me nervous but I'm certainly not going to second-guess Jocke...

[Tools]

I like the way you think

I just cut the bezel until it's a drop-fit.. It won't stay in, but it sure is easy..

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by Tools

I like the way you think

I just cut the bezel until it's a drop-fit.. It won't stay in, but it sure is easy..

Larry:

Now THAT is a "manly" lathe !!

[JohnBaker3]

OK Larry:

Here are some pics of the "mini-lathe" at work milling down another nylon disk.

Since I bought the case-back press, I have found 4 uses for it:

1: Pressing on case backs after battery replacements (non Rolex : )

2: Pressing bezel inserts into the bezel

3: Pressing the insert/bezel unit onto the watch

4: Pressing down a crystal ring around a crystal

This is a very practical piece of gear for the price!

[JohnBaker3]

Hey Guys:

After rooting around on the internet, I found this little gem for sale.

It is a genuine Rolex mini press used to put on crystal rings and bezel inserts.
It uses aluminum cups rather than nylon....

Only difference is they are asking $6K for theirs; mine was about $40...go figure.....

[rmfnla]

I use a tilting machinist vise with plastic dies; works great...

[2ar2c1]

I think the real reason the aluminum inserts are so difficult to install is that being a soft material, the repeated action of pressing it in and pressing it out makes the aluminum grow a tiny bit each time. thus it becomes more difficult as the insert is repeatedly installed.
I've noticed this with my lv insert as I used to swap it and a nos black insert all the time with just thumb pressure: now both are impossible without a press.

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by 2ar2c1

I think the real reason the aluminum inserts are so difficult to install is that being a soft material, the repeated action of pressing it in and pressing it out makes the aluminum grow a tiny bit each time. thus it becomes more difficult as the insert is repeatedly installed.
I've noticed this with my lv insert as I used to swap it and a nos black insert all the time with just thumb pressure: now both are impossible without a press.

Here's trick to reshape your insert to a smaller diameter:

Take a small Perrier bottle and set the insert over the neck. Gently massage it in a downward motion. It may take several tries to get it just right.

This will make the insert "dome" upward slightly and make it fit better into the bezel.

If you have the opposite problem, and your insert is too loose, lay it flat on the table and massage it slightly flatter !

[2ar2c1]

I'm not sure the angle of the insert is the issue for me, the insert has grown longer, as evidenced when it's down to the last bit, and the insert is simply too large to squeeze into the bezel.
At least that's how mine appear: I've stopped swapping them around.

[Jay308]

Put the insert in the freezer for a half hour and heat the bezel in hot (almost boiling water) Cold insert shrinks, hot bezel expands, all drop into place. Let sit to room temp and done. Pressing in the insert with a press could easily gall the edge of the insert or shave material from it. The difference in sizes with the insert cold and the bezel hot will allow the insert to easily drop in with no "interference" in the fitting.

[2ar2c1]

Originally Posted by Jay308

Put the insert in the freezer for a half hour and heat the bezel in hot (almost boiling water) Cold insert shrinks, hot bezel expands, all drop into place. Let sit to room temp and done. Pressing in the insert with a press could easily gall the edge of the insert or shave material from it. The difference in sizes with the insert cold and the bezel hot will allow the insert to easily drop in with no "interference" in the fitting.

lol, tried that too, no way does it work in the real world. that might work if the difference was tiny, but the diff is sizable.

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by 2ar2c1

lol, tried that too, no way does it work in the real world. that might work if the difference was tiny, but the diff is sizable.

+2

This works on steel valve seats and aluminum engine heads but not on a Rolex insert/bezel.

I think the aluminum returns to temp so quickly that it never has a chance.

For what it's worth, I tried this before I made the "mini-press".

No problems with galling either; the aluminum is very soft and either goes in smoothly or with a soft click.

Life is good.

[JohnBaker3]

OK....I admit that I have a SMALL problem with Rolexes in general and GMT's in particular.

I REALLY enjoy swapping out the inserts to take advantage of the many looks that they provide.

The little zip lock baggies help keep them sorted and inventoried !!
Pepsi, Coke, Root Beer, Blueberry, and Black Coffee are up for grabs!

I just ordered several extra bezels so the swap is even easier !!

Life is good !!

[2ar2c1]

love the shot of your workbench, and yes, you have gmt-istis bad, lol.

[JohnBaker3]

Originally Posted by 2ar2c1

love the shot of your workbench, and yes, you have gmt-istis bad, lol.

You are learning well, grasshopper......

[Rikki]

Guys Guys Guys you're hurting my head just buy a set of plastic jaw pliers from any good supply house for less than 20 bucks you snap the insert in till the one little side that wont go in take the pliers and roll it in takes less than 10 seconds to change an insert. Rikki