Goodbye AP ADs

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

they took a big hit. I sold my RG44, new dial. Personally i am not in the it has to be an investment camp. I just what availability. I expect to lose money when i sell so i try not to do it too often. Retail price drops are very bad though. That cant happen and still maintain any level of trust. Im sure its a big reason people dont pay retail and go grey.

I'm not in the investment camp, either, and am cognizant of the fact that nothing else I buy - shoes or suits or whatnot - has much, if any, resale value. Nonetheless, if the boutique is going to give me a hard time for "deal hunting" my reaction is going to be that I wouldn't worry about deals if their products held their value better. In a world of men and not octopuses, the few watches that I own at any given time will be decided to some extent by which best retain their value or are most gettable at a discount.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

they took a big hit. I sold my RG44, new dial. Personally i am not in the it has to be an investment camp. I just what availability. I expect to lose money when i sell so i try not to do it too often. Retail price drops are very bad though. That cant happen and still maintain any level of trust. Im sure its a big reason people dont pay retail and go grey.

Patek did have a price drop a few years back... but at least I recall it was more to correct currency differences. That's a lot less egregious than what AP did to some of the 44s and the 42 RG brick where they effed up the pricing of them at launch and then devalued them overnight.

[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by AshAP

This is not my experience at all, I have bought APs for around 16 years (always brand new), but I’ve only owned 4 and yet I feel very valued as a customer.


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I'm with you on this. I only bought my first AP just over a year ago (and now have three), but I've been very well treated thus far and made to feel valued by the brand. This said, I've never slagged off AP and, although I don't like any of the 2018 releases (except for one out of my comfort zone, price wise), continue to be excited by the brand and look forward to hopefully buying more APs in the future.

But, I am really fed up with all the AP slagging, particularly by those who don't own the brand. Go slag Rolex off instead, who patently deserve it right now, as they clearly do disrespect their customers.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Patek did have a price drop a few years back... but at least I recall it was more to correct currency differences. That's a lot less egregious than what AP did to some of the 44s and the 42 RG brick where they effed up the pricing of them at launch and then devalued them overnight.

i think any brand should hold the line on prices. If its too high, curb price increases until its correct. The Pt 44 was way to aggressively priced though, the others have been more modest reductions. Still think its a bad idea.

AP did a price adjustment on the CE 44 with the introduction of the new replacement model. I guess that is ok

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by P2725TMB

I'm with you on this. I only bought my first AP just over a year ago (and now have three), but I've been very well treated thus far and made to feel valued by the brand. This said, I've never slagged off AP and, although I don't like any of the 2018 releases (except for one out of my comfort zone, price wise), continue to be excited by the brand and look forward to hopefully buying more APs in the future.

But, I am really fed up with all the AP slagging, particularly by those who don't own the brand. Go slag Rolex off instead, who patently deserve it right now, as they clearly do disrespect their customers.

thats an opinion just like ours. If we feel there is an issue with AP then we discuss it. You have issues with Rolex and discuss that. I dont see the difference and that is a double standard to encourage it with one brand but making it off limits to another brand. Lots of people like AP watches but are very frustrated with the brand decisions which are separate from the watches. Same as people's issues with Rolex.
Some of us feel disrespected by AP to some extent.

Consistency of customer experience is widely varied. There are enough with poor experiences to make it valid. Just as there are enough with outstanding experiences. customer experience with AP is not consistent which is what we are discussing to a large extent. Boutiques mean AP themselves where as with Rolex it means independent AD when discussing brand experience so its even more relevant with AP.

No one is bashing watches... except maybe the colored divers.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

No one is bashing watches... except maybe the colored divers.

Those colored divers are terrible.

I think AP has strayed away a little, some of these models coming out are just too bizarre. Diamonds, diamond crusted, camo straps, just all over the place. The new ceramic ROO's look nice however!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by npalacio

Those colored divers are terrible.

I think AP has strayed away a little, some of these models coming out are just too bizarre. Diamonds, diamond crusted, camo straps, just all over the place. The new ceramic ROO's look nice however!

pretty sure they will sell them though. not my taste, but people will buy them.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

pretty sure they will sell them though. not my taste, but people will buy them.

I wanted the purple diver, but the Geneva boutique never even wrote me back and I sent the email in perfect French!

[V25V]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

pretty sure they will sell them though. not my taste, but people will buy them.

Agreed. Bet they will depreciate like mad as well and then even more people will buy them!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

I wanted the purple diver, but the Geneva boutique never even wrote me back and I sent the email in perfect French!

i love google translate.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i love google translate.

Nah, the old fashioned way - 9 years between junior high, high school and college. Used to be able to read Chretien de Troyes and Abelard in old-timey French; now I can inquire after purple watches.

[falkenauge]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

so you know for sure? If you know ill just ask details as to why.

Selfridges is a tough call as how can they terminate them when they just did a special edition for that AD (Bucherer) last year. Which by the way they cant sell and was kind of a flop.

Not true actually. The AP Bucherer Blue Editions are top sellers and almost sold out everywhere (no limitatiok though).

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Sorry but their CEO said it is cheaper to do lounges, not me. That is a fact

"above-ground-level retail spaces where the focus will be on a premium customer experience rather than costly build-outs for showcase spaces with premium rents. The first are scheduled to open in London, Munich and New York by the end of this year."

Too cheap to build a boutique is a fair statement. That was the context of the statement as i made clear.

I think you’re focusing on the wrong part of the message and misinterpreting it.

He said that his aim is to focus on a “premium customer experience” instead of building showcase spaces. That happen to be costly. That does not mean that they are not building them because they are costly, but because they prefer to focus on building the desired customer experience.

Your statement is therefore not a fair one.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by falkenauge

Not true actually. The AP Bucherer Blue Editions are top sellers and almost sold out everywhere (no limitatiok though).

London just became Bucherer, use to be the watch gallery. They got a bunch when they opened/rebranded. I usually dont see special edition watches on display too often. I agree it was nicer in person than in pics by a lot. I wrote about that at the time.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

I think you’re focusing on the wrong part of the message and misinterpreting it.

He said that his aim is to focus on a “premium customer experience” instead of building showcase spaces. That happen to be costly. That does not mean that they are not building them because they are costly, but because they prefer to focus on building the desired customer experience.

Your statement is therefore not a fair one.

fair enough. I was simply stating in a wider context. London got a lounge instead of a boutique. NYC has a boutique already so in addition to is fine. Munich has two AD's so its not a huge market. A lounge is a great alternative to a boutique in a city that cant sustain a large retail presence i think. A major world city is an exception.

A lounge in Houston or a lounge in seattle makes sense to me. No point in a giant store there, just a place where you can buy watches were there isnt a giant demand for your product. A sort of mini boutique. Im not opposed to the concept at all if it serves more customers and in more markets.

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Some of us feel disrespected by AP to some extent.

How were you disrespected? They didn’t have the watch you wanted? That’s the lay of the land these days with a number of brands. I would personally avoid punishing a brand that’s been around for almost 1.5 decades because of strategic decisions that are meant to improve the brand’s value over time. I’m sure they’ve got their finger on the pulse of the market and have made decisions accordingly. Just as any professionally-run company would.

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Many companies hide lack of growth by increasing revenue through increasing profit margins.

I would love to learn how to increase revenue by increasing profit margins.

Originally Posted by tyler1980

They are not growing at all actually and their brand footprint is decreasing.

How do you know this? Source please

[dpj17]

I think the answer lies in where AP see the future headed. They are mostly a younger persons brand. Millenials who are coming into money now have a completely different view on making high end purchasing online. AP has admitted this year they will release a watch exclusive to being purchased direct through their website. I am not convinced this is the real reason they are moving at a lightning pace to change the entire culture of purchasing an AP watch. I think they are in trouble. Ultimately they will cut production and by selling at full MSRP their gross revenue will remain the same, hell maybe even go up. Or, they could be positioning the brand for a sale. With only AP owned boutiques the brand all of the sudden becomes much more valuable. What is happening right now is part of a long term plan that was put in place years ago. Looking at the new product this year it tells me they are not overly concerned with the long term shelf life of AP. New dials, new straps, new metals, new colored ceramic bezels - all of course on RO and ROO - weird. This is not innovation, this is survival.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by dpj17

I think the answer lies in where AP see the future headed. They are mostly a younger persons brand. Millenials who are coming into money now have a completely different view on making high end purchasing online. AP has admitted this year they will release a watch exclusive to being purchased direct through their website. I am not convinced this is the real reason they are moving at a lightning pace to change the entire culture of purchasing an AP watch. I think they are in trouble. Ultimately they will cut production and by selling at full MSRP their gross revenue will remain the same, hell maybe even go up. Or, they could be positioning the brand for a sale. With only AP owned boutiques the brand all of the sudden becomes much more valuable. What is happening right now is part of a long term plan that was put in place years ago. Looking at the new product this year it tells me they are not overly concerned with the long term shelf life of AP. New dials, new straps, new metals, new colored ceramic bezels - all of course on RO and ROO - weird. This is not innovation, this is survival.

If this is geared toward millenials, it's the wrong tack. They're not going to have the patience to be waitlisted for the watch they want, and they're not going to put up with the attitudes most AP sales people seem to have.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

How were you disrespected? They didn’t have the watch you wanted? That’s the lay of the land these days with a number of brands. I would personally avoid punishing a brand that’s been around for almost 1.5 decades because of strategic decisions that are meant to improve the brand’s value over time. I’m sure they’ve got their finger on the pulse of the market and have made decisions accordingly. Just as any professionally-run company would.

they forgot to tell me my watch was fixed i had to call to complain to find out it was done

they didn't want to let me pick it up because it was a short notice appointment (couldn't schedule in advance because i didn't know my watch was fixed)

they did a full service under warranty and gave me back a dirty watch

bought an extra strap that was jammed inside the cardboard service box (it doesn't even fit in there) when i picked up the watch

they invited me on a manufacture visit and then stood me up and never arranged it or forgot about me or whatever. I got an initial email saying details to follow and then nothing.

Happend to have a call unrelated to that where it came up where i got a big "oops" and then i got an email from someone in the office two hours later and they actually blamed me (in writing) because i didn't respond to a message they never sent. They have my phone number and never called so dont know what that was about.

I responded in writing and then got an apology which then blamed IT issues and that they couldn't send external email and it wasn't my fault... still they could have called if they had IT issues and couldn't send emails

They then tried to get me to go on the trip less than a week from departure, but i declined at that point as i was fed up.

I was told AP direct clients get preferred treatment in some weird sales pitch as a justification for everything. This was in fairness a low level person not anyone in charge. but still

[dpj17]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

If this is geared toward millenials, it's the wrong tack. They're not going to have the patience to be waitlisted for the watch they want, and they're not going to put up with the attitudes most AP sales people seem to have.

I don't disagree, but since when has Switzerland accurately read the long term US purchasing trend landscape?

[Lordofrolex]

Does that mean no more gray dealers?

No more discounts!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Either our used AP collection will go up in price or the brand will slowly diminish due to no one wanting to pay 30K for a SS watch not to mention with tax.

I guess this tax comment will one day be used against me in the court of law but someone had to say it.

[dpj17]

Originally Posted by Lordofrolex

Does that mean no more gray dealers?

No more discounts!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Either our used AP collection will go up in price or the brand will slowly diminish.

I don't believe the grey dealers will go away it will simply change, and yes, prices will go up in the short term. The boutiques will begin to sell direct to the grey guys, gobbling up all of the margin. However, they are very smart at packaging up turds with hard to get models assuming the grey guy can maybe get his money out of the dud after a while but flip a plat/ti. jumbo for big bucks.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

How were you disrespected? .

There was no red carpet upon arrival


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

I would love to learn how to increase revenue by increasing profit margins.

production is steady at 40k, but profit up 12%. they are making more per watch. Absent price increases they are making additional money not wholesaling to AD's. nothing wrong with that

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AshAP

There was no red carpet upon arrival


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you know why and you were the one who told me to reach out to AP corporate to complain which I did. You were appalled at the time so that is just not fair.

Im not posting private messages from whats app which i have, but that is ridiculous.

I got the email address for your AP contact from you for the purpose of complaining at your suggestion.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Im not posting private messages from whats app which i have, but that is ridiculous.

You’re quite right and I apologise, this whole AP bashing thread has brought out the worst in me.


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[falkenauge]

Guys, I work for Bucherer (Europe‘s and now also America‘s biggest watch retailer) and last week AP visited us to show and explain the new watches for 2018. There‘s a lot to come (many ROO) and the AD (at least Bucherer) still plays a key role for AP.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AshAP

You’re quite right and I apologise, this whole AP bashing thread has brought out the worst in me.


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im really trying to keep AP watches and the London retail operation separate and clearly not doing a good job. London is my frame of reference not any other market. My wider strategy issues are London centered in how i feel they affect things here.

My issue is not with any product. Its with the decision to cut out AD's because my AP direct experience has objectively been awful. Hope that makes sense. I want to buy AP watches but i don't want to deal with AP to do it... that is no longer an option


between a rock and a hard place

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

im really trying to keep AP watches and the London retail operation separate and clearly not doing a good job.

My issue is not with any product. Its with the decision to cut out AD's because my AP direct experience has objectively been awful. Hope that makes sense. I want to buy AP watches but i don't want to deal with AP to do it... that is no longer an option


between a rock and a hard place

It is an option, Owen & Robinson in Leeds are retaining their AD status.


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