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Old 26 February 2018, 11:43 AM   #31
mattedialdoc
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Thoughts on the future for Daytona 6263?

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Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
....Then you have many other models which have stood pretty still compared to the market such as the 1655, red sub and double red seadweller....

Really?
All of these models have steadily gone up in price. Certainly not like a vintage Daytona, but all the watches I've bought in the last couple years have appreciated greatly.




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Old 26 February 2018, 11:48 AM   #32
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Honestly, they were more fun to wear when they were going for a grand.
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Old 26 February 2018, 01:01 PM   #33
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1019 are cheaper today compared to five years ago. Then you have many other models which have stood pretty still compared to the market such as the 1655, red sub and double red seadweller. Not saying the Daytona will go down in value but it is pretty crazy when a standard big red fetches almost 100k. Then I don’t really see prices moving much further. Of course just my opinion. I don’t have a crystal ball.

Yours is super pretty btw.


Tell me where these cheap 1019s and red subs are!!! Just kidding around and I agree “quirky” refs like 1019 and 1655 are pretty stagnant but some have come up too in my view and so have red subs (a lot in the last year!). There has to be a ceiling somewhere one would assume and Daytonas I think are slower to sell/ move at 90-100k than they were before. But are we there yet? Who the hell knows...

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Really?
All of these models have steadily gone up in price. Certainly not like a vintage Daytona, but all the watches I've bought in the last couple years have appreciated greatly.




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Agree!



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Old 26 February 2018, 01:01 PM   #34
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Honestly, they were more fun to wear when they were going for a grand.


I can only imagine!


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Old 26 February 2018, 01:03 PM   #35
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Increased value doesn’t help anyone except those making an exit. As a collector I am happier to be able to afford new pieces. Knowing they increased in value might give me a warm and fuzzy feeling at first but when I realize my next purchase is unreachable it kind of sucks.


I am priced out of being able to add much of anything at this point so the feeling is mutual....


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Old 26 February 2018, 06:54 PM   #36
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Scroll down to see results. Pretty interesting imho.

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-1019/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...xplorer-ii/lpi

Overall prices could vary. Especially when condition is so much more important today than in the past when price was pretty much related to the reference. It is however interesting to see how some of the hot watches from the past performs today. It is harder to compare red subs and DRSD as they share the same reference number with their much cheaper white brothers but just remembering where they were you notice they have not moved a lot. At least not compared the market in general. Great examples are of course up a lot as condition is king today but there haven't really been the overall crazy hype of daytonas as gilts we see today.

I wish I could go back to the day when gilt subs were priced lower than red subs.

Perhaps a bit off-topic.. Sorry
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Old 26 February 2018, 07:54 PM   #37
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where can I find this for GMTs and Daytonas?

Thank you

Scroll down to see results. Pretty interesting imho.

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-1019/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...xplorer-ii/lpi
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Old 26 February 2018, 08:11 PM   #39
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Mille Grazie :-)
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Old 26 February 2018, 09:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
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I wish they’d come down, but they won’t.
You must consider the top prices for the rarer Daytona’s as they will drive and dictate the prices of the “lesser” variants. Same as what you see in the big vs small crown subs... no big crowns available so now the smalls are getting hot.

The real problem is confusing an average one for a great one (and then paying top dollar). If you pay top money, make sure it’s great - not average. Don’t be blinded by the frenzy; pick carefully but I wouldn’t wait another year.

Your only “hope” is if there’s another financial market meltdown ....
What Steve said
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Old 26 February 2018, 09:57 PM   #41
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Some 6263 results from Sothebys incl. buyers premium http://www.sothebys.com/en/search-re...l?keyword=6263
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Old 27 February 2018, 01:29 AM   #42
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https://www.collectorsquare.com/mont...rolex-6542/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/mont...rolex-1675/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-6265/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...lex-6265pn/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-6263/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...lex-6263pn/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-6239/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...lex-6239pn/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-6241/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...lex-6241pn/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/r...olex-6262.html

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...lex-6262pn/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-6264/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...lex-6264pn/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...rolex-6240/lpi

https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/w...lex-6240pn/lpi
All very interesting, and thanks for sharing. But this is only a snapshot of the major auction houses that sell vintage Rolexes. It's like a fancy EBay, really. Not sure these lists depict true value, not completely anyway. Some prices seem high, others low. Auctions are a different animal. (I deal with this all the time in my job, on the art side.)

I'd never, ever buy from one of these auction houses, but maybe that's just me. Sometimes there are mistakes in the listings, and some of the offerings are dodgy with sketchy provenance, etc... They don't always know what they're doing.
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Old 27 February 2018, 02:08 AM   #43
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Correct what you are wrighting, but it is a reference.
I am in the same position as you, wait or buy?
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Old 27 February 2018, 02:15 AM   #44
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If anyone is after one, heed JP's words carefully....ridiculous how good a lot of fake parts are now on 4 digit Daytonas....better do your research and dissect the watch with a watchmaker that knows what he's doing....trusted sellers or not.
the quality of fake parts for these is scary, so much so that i could see it being negative for the Daytona market at some point. the high quality fakes have laser measure cases capable of receiving genuine Rolex parts. many pay $5k+ for real dials to throw in. the Rolex stamped parts for the V72 movement are made with incredible accuracy. the movements are "converted" to 727. think of it this way. the Texas (Mayer) dials were made what 25+ years ago? these fooled auction houses and some very well heeled collectors. technology for everything, including fake parts, has vastly improved in that time frame. this watch below is fake. 100% of it is fake, it contains no authentic parts. but it does have a V72 with a 727 conversion. this isnt even a particularly good fake. the good fakes are put together for $10k+ using numerous genuine parts and this is a fraction of that using only Vietnamese after-market parts. Scary world out there.
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Old 27 February 2018, 02:52 AM   #45
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All very interesting, and thanks for sharing. But this is only a snapshot of the major auction houses that sell vintage Rolexes. It's like a fancy EBay, really. Not sure these lists depict true value, not completely anyway. Some prices seem high, others low. Auctions are a different animal. (I deal with this all the time in my job, on the art side.)

I'd never, ever buy from one of these auction houses, but maybe that's just me. Sometimes there are mistakes in the listings, and some of the offerings are dodgy with sketchy provenance, etc... They don't always know what they're doing.
Well.. It lists the main auction houses and even if prices perhaps differ in the real market it shows you the trends. You can easily compare prices now compared to 5-10 years ago. Even if some examples sell high/low and condition, accessories etc differs between every watch sold. It gives you a feel for the market.

I find it good to be able to go back and refress my memory.
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Old 27 February 2018, 04:32 AM   #46
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the quality of fake parts for these is scary, so much so that i could see it being negative for the Daytona market at some point. the high quality fakes have laser measure cases capable of receiving genuine Rolex parts. many pay $5k+ for real dials to throw in. the Rolex stamped parts for the V72 movement are made with incredible accuracy. the movements are "converted" to 727. think of it this way. the Texas (Mayer) dials were made what 25+ years ago? these fooled auction houses and some very well heeled collectors. technology for everything, including fake parts, has vastly improved in that time frame. this watch below is fake. 100% of it is fake, it contains no authentic parts. but it does have a V72 with a 727 conversion. this isnt even a particularly good fake. the good fakes are put together for $10k+ using numerous genuine parts and this is a fraction of that using only Vietnamese after-market parts. Scary world out there.
No different than any other high-end vintage Rolexes, although I agree the stakes are getting a lot higher. There are good fakes out there for all sports models, sadly. Still, there are ways to spot the fakes, but it is getting harder.
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Old 27 February 2018, 08:48 AM   #47
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So what is the price/value now for a good and correct 6263? With and without papers.
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Old 27 February 2018, 08:56 AM   #48
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So what is the price/value now for a good and correct 6263? With and without papers.
Really depends on the version. You have the early thin case with prototype millerighe pushers. Then you have sigmas non big red and big red and then you have the normal big reds. Personally I’d say the first series is the most collectable but the market seem to like many versions right now.

Pay for condition. Papers don’t add much for me unless the watch is in 100% condition. Depending on quality, version and additional extras such as tropical or double signed dials I’d say they can cost anywhere between 50-150k. PNs of course much more. For a standard run on the mill big red I guess they are 65-75k in good condition. Bit more with papers. Plus minus money depending on who sells it.
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Old 27 February 2018, 09:33 AM   #49
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Really depends on the version. You have the early thin case with prototype millerighe pushers. Then you have sigmas non big red and big red and then you have the normal big reds. Personally I’d say the first series is the most collectable but the market seem to like many versions right now.

Pay for condition. Papers don’t add much for me unless the watch is in 100% condition. Depending on quality, version and additional extras such as tropical or double signed dials I’d say they can cost anywhere between 50-150k. PNs of course much more. For a standard run on the mill big red I guess they are 65-75k in good condition. Bit more with papers. Plus minus money depending on who sells it.
They're more, in the U.S. anyway, especially for the Big Reds. You'll pay $75K-$80K for an OK to good Big Red 6263. Add at least $10K to $15K for boxes/papers, and up depending on how complete the set is. Iconic Watches sold a set recently for $100K. Here are two other recent examples of half-way decent 6263s, but not necessarily great:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=571343

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=6263
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Old 27 February 2018, 09:40 AM   #50
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They're more, in the U.S. anyway, especially for the Big Reds. You'll pay $75K-$80K for an OK to good Big Red 6263. Add at least $10K to $15K for boxes/papers, and up depending on how complete the set is. Iconic Watches sold a set recently for $100K. Here are two other recent examples of half-way decent 6263s, but not necessarily great:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=571343

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=6263
As said, plus minus money. Perhaps I’m off a bit as I am in Europe and the usd is kind of soft at the moment. Dealer prices also vary quite a bit depending who is selling.

No doubt they are hot though.
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Old 27 February 2018, 10:06 AM   #51
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Thanks guys, thats what I‘m thinking
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Old 27 February 2018, 10:48 AM   #52
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They're more, in the U.S. anyway, especially for the Big Reds. You'll pay $75K-$80K for an OK to good Big Red 6263. Add at least $10K to $15K for boxes/papers, and up depending on how complete the set is. Iconic Watches sold a set recently for $100K. Here are two other recent examples of half-way decent 6263s, but not necessarily great:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=571343

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=6263
If that's what you get for $75,000, the money can best be put toward other models in much nicer condition- and in quantity.
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Old 27 February 2018, 07:10 PM   #53
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the quality of fake parts for these is scary, so much so that i could see it being negative for the Daytona market at some point. the high quality fakes have laser measure cases capable of receiving genuine Rolex parts. many pay $5k+ for real dials to throw in. the Rolex stamped parts for the V72 movement are made with incredible accuracy. the movements are "converted" to 727. think of it this way. the Texas (Mayer) dials were made what 25+ years ago? these fooled auction houses and some very well heeled collectors. technology for everything, including fake parts, has vastly improved in that time frame. this watch below is fake. 100% of it is fake, it contains no authentic parts. but it does have a V72 with a 727 conversion. this isnt even a particularly good fake. the good fakes are put together for $10k+ using numerous genuine parts and this is a fraction of that using only Vietnamese after-market parts. Scary world out there.
The better the fakes get, the better we also get at identifying them as well as better identifying authentic ones.

This is no different for other references, except for the fact that there is more money to be made within Daytonas.

I would stay away from the rare, prototype, unicorn examples, but the ones very largely produced, a 6263 big red for example, it's not difficult to identify, not for many guys, and not for experts like Andrew Shear, Eric Ku, etc.
This is exactly why people (myself included) justify a premium from trusted sellers.
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Old 14 March 2018, 09:20 PM   #54
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I think the only way that the price of 6263 can go is up. For a good condition full set black dial one (which seems to be a bit more expensive than the silver) is already well over 100k USD. It is the ultimate vintage watch (not counting the Paul Newmans of course).
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Old 17 March 2018, 02:50 AM   #55
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I think the only way that the price of 6263 can go is up. For a good condition full set black dial one (which seems to be a bit more expensive than the silver) is already well over 100k USD. It is the ultimate vintage watch (not counting the Paul Newmans of course).
Agreed, although I actually see the silver/cream dials selling higher than the black versions. Still, it's pretty close and condition is a more important factor.
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Old 17 March 2018, 05:22 AM   #56
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Agreed, although I actually see the silver/cream dials selling higher than the black versions. Still, it's pretty close and condition is a more important factor.
Always seen the black ones pricier, as well as rarer than the silvers.
At least in the west coast amongst dealers and collectors this is how it has always been. Ultimately condition rules, but assuming similar condition.
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Old 17 March 2018, 06:45 AM   #57
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Agreed, although I actually see the silver/cream dials selling higher than the black versions. Still, it's pretty close and condition is a more important factor.
Maybe we're reading the same ads. I always thought the panda was more in demand as well (silver/cream dials).
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Old 17 March 2018, 06:45 AM   #58
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Always seen the black ones pricier, as well as rarer than the silvers.
At least in the west coast amongst dealers and collectors this is how it has always been. Ultimately condition rules, but assuming similar condition.
Really? Why do you think black ones are rarer? Based on what? That's not what my extensive, and I mean extensive, online research showed me. I actually saw more black versions available in the months I was looking for one. It was close, but that's what I saw, anyway.

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Old 17 March 2018, 01:30 PM   #59
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Black sigma dial!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 20 March 2018, 09:04 AM   #60
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So, a very good 6263, big red, with all papers it really good condition - value?
Thanks for helping...
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