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Old 24 January 2019, 05:59 AM   #1
Hammer2016
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Opinions on a 16600

This one is straddling the border of vintage, but I thought I'd ask here all the same. I've no concerns regarding authenticity, but I was hoping to get some more experienced eyes on it for opinions on the lugs. The white background and highlights make it a little difficult to see the outside edges, but I've lined them up in photoshop with a mint example, and the outer thickness is there, with perhaps the tiniest bit of rounding at the tips. It's the inner lugs I'm most uncertain about.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading!
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Old 24 January 2019, 07:00 AM   #2
swish77
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Can you get more/better photos, preferably in natural light, not this whitebox look? Makes it tough to evaluate.

Based on the one photo, I'd say it's definitely been polished, but not overly so. In addition to the lugs, you want to look at the crown guards. On your example, they appear slightly rounded. There's a ridge line on the crown guards that should be prominent on cases that have had little or no polishing.

Here's my confirmed unpolished 16600 without the bezel (removed for cleaning) that shows that line at the crown guards. It often gets rounded, or even removed, on cases that are polished too much. With the bezel on, you need to see an angled photo from the crown side to evaluate.
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Old 24 January 2019, 07:03 AM   #3
enginerd
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Whenever I see photos with the washed out white background, I ask for some in natural (usually shop) light from different angles. Some sellers are nice enough to accommodate and actually go outside under sunlight.

The 5 & 11 o'clock lugs looks a bit oddly shaped, but difficult to know for sure.

Mine is also unpolished, but that's a great tip with the bezel removed.

Edit: Actually, after studying mine, it appears the shape of the 11 o'clock lug is most correct. The others appear a bit rounded off; it could also be the angle though.
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Old 24 January 2019, 07:15 AM   #4
Hammer2016
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Thanks! I'll contact them and see, but I suspect they won't. Here are a few more from different angles, that'll hopefully help!
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Old 24 January 2019, 07:27 AM   #5
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I should probably add that I'm not looking for a mint example. I want a watch that I'll wear and enjoy. I'm mainly trying to get a sense of where the line between decent example and one to pass on is!
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Old 24 January 2019, 08:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd View Post
Whenever I see photos with the washed out white background, I ask for some in natural (usually shop) light from different angles.
This is a must. Those white background photos are awful.
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Old 24 January 2019, 06:44 PM   #7
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It looks like your watch is from the early 2000s and it appears to be in pretty good, original shape. If it's coming from a dealer it will have been at least mildly polished to get rid of all scratches. The biggest issue you'll face with one of these is whether it's been serviced because it is 12 to 20 years old. I bought one from the same vintage and within 2 years had to have a service which cost $800.
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Old 25 January 2019, 12:21 AM   #8
Hammer2016
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Thanks all. I've requested some more photos and details, and have broadened the search a little to a few other watches. I have quite a bit of faith in this dealer though, which counts for a lot in terms of peace of mind.

In terms of this one, are there any red flags jumping out at you with the photos I've posted?

I'll post anything new for opinion if things progress - either with this watch or the others I'm looking at. Thanks again for how generous you've been with your time and knowledge - I'm just not confident enough in my ability to determine the more subtle things like levels of case polishing yet!
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Old 25 January 2019, 10:32 PM   #9
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Out of curiosity, is this model one that suffers from much faking? I'm looking at the 16600 Super Luminovas with lug holes, which (I think) were only produced from about 1998-2002ish.

Just wondering if I should be looking out for fakes, and not just over polishing!

Also, and apologies if asking this is not allowed - what kind of premium can you expect to add onto the price for a completely full set?
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Old 26 January 2019, 04:29 AM   #10
sdwtchlvr
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Hammer2016...the lugs on this watch look to have been polished at some point, not a bad job but not an unpolished watch. You can tell from the brushing on top of the lugs and the chamfer on the edge of the lugs. The older a watch is, the more of chance it's had the case refinished. Nothing to be scared off by...just something to consider.

What does surprise me is the bracelet fitment to the case. You can see space between the bracelet and the inside part of the lug. The bracelet on 16600 is and always has been solid end link so it should fit nice and tight. That would concern me personally.

You won't find may fakes (good ones I guess) of this model but of course, buy the seller first, then the watch...as they say.
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Old 26 January 2019, 04:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdwtchlvr View Post
Hammer2016...the lugs on this watch look to have been polished at some point, not a bad job but not an unpolished watch. You can tell from the brushing on top of the lugs and the chamfer on the edge of the lugs. The older a watch is, the more of chance it's had the case refinished. Nothing to be scared off by...just something to consider.

What does surprise me is the bracelet fitment to the case. You can see space between the bracelet and the inside part of the lug. The bracelet on 16600 is and always has been solid end link so it should fit nice and tight. That would concern me personally.

You won't find may fakes (good ones I guess) of this model but of course, buy the seller first, then the watch...as they say.
The inner lug gap to the end links concerned me also. Mainly the gap at 11 o’clock
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Old 26 January 2019, 05:00 AM   #12
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A full set shouldn't cost you more than $1000 over a watch alone and is probably worth looking for. This watch is currently one of the least loved Rolex sport watches, especially when you consider that it is discontinued and has a number of different iterations.
If you are looking for a superbly designed classic Rolex, you can't do any better than this for the price.
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Old 26 January 2019, 06:38 AM   #13
Hammer2016
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Thanks, everyone. The inner edges of the lugs are what was bothering me too. I'm moving on from the one pictured above, so the search continues!
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Old 31 January 2019, 10:20 PM   #14
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Admittedly this one is 2 years shy of being vintage, but I didn't want to start another thread on this subject, so hope its ok here! This watch is a full set, priced way too high at the moment, but if I can negotiate down to a number closer to what the market value is, I'd be pretty interested in this one.

Once again I wanted to post here to see if the more experienced eyes pick up on anything I've missed! Thanks for any and all comments!
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Old 3 February 2019, 08:42 AM   #15
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Bumping this in the hope of getting some eyes on the photos in the previous post and any feedback anyone might have! Thanks!
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Old 3 February 2019, 08:51 AM   #16
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Opinions on a 16600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer2016 View Post
Bumping this in the hope of getting some eyes on the photos in the previous post and any feedback anyone might have! Thanks!


I’d ask for pictures in some better lighting. Preferably some natural light.


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Old 4 February 2019, 02:38 AM   #17
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Luminova 16600s are relatively easy to come by, but examples in excellent condition are not as easy to find as you might think. (This is one of my favorite "modern" references, and I've bought (and sold) several over the years, so I know all about this hunt.)

Be patient and only buy from a selller/dealer that provides good photos, not these washed-out white-box shots. The second example posted by the OP looks OK, but again, I'd want better photos and more information, including service history. What's the asking price?

As for the comments about the bracelet "gap" in the previous example .... I actually don't see an issue at all. Shine a light from behind virtually any watch and it will look like there are bracelet gaps in blown-up white-washed photographs. There is a tolerance of separation between a bracelet and the inside of the lugs. There needs to be some room, of course. I bet to the naked eye in natural light, you can't see any gap at the end links.
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Old 4 February 2019, 03:10 AM   #18
Hammer2016
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Thanks guys! I'll request other photos, but to date no dealer has agreed to take more, and these white background ones represent about 90% of the examples I've looked at, which is frustrating.

There is no service history, so an immediate service needs to be considered. As I mentioned, this one is a completely full set, and the asking is $10000, which I feel is a little high, as I've seen some very good examples with no box/papers/set for about $7700. I really don't feel the extras are worth that level of premium, particular when the $7700 example has had a recent service, but I'm open to being corrected on that!
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Old 4 February 2019, 03:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer2016 View Post
Thanks guys! I'll request other photos, but to date no dealer has agreed to take more, and these white background ones represent about 90% of the examples I've looked at, which is frustrating.

There is no service history, so an immediate service needs to be considered. As I mentioned, this one is a completely full set, and the asking is $10000
That's really high. Have you only been looking at dealers? I'd check the for sale section here too. You'll pay less and private sellers are usually more accommodating than dealers.
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Old 4 February 2019, 06:03 AM   #20
Hammer2016
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Yes, I've only been looking at dealers. I'm looking for a Europe-based watch so I don't have to deal with any taxes and duties. I've not seen any in the sales forum over this side of the atlantic since I started looking.

I agree that this one is priced very aggressively, and it would need to come down quite substantially in price before I'd buy it. I suspect the dealer won't be willing to drop the amount it'd need to come down if that's his starting point, but we shall!
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Old 13 February 2019, 05:07 AM   #21
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Ok, I got some additional photos of the watch posted immediately above. As always, all comments/feed back very much appreciated!
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Old 13 February 2019, 06:03 AM   #22
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Looks decent, clean. Case doesn't appear over-polished.

Is this the one that's a full set at $10K with no service history? If so, that's high, even by European standards. In the States, this would be about $8K as a full set, give or take. If you hunted around, you might even find a nice complete set 16600 for $7500.
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Old 13 February 2019, 11:10 AM   #23
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@Hammer2016
The last batch of pics is much, much better than the "white blast" shots in your original post. Now, if these were individual shots instead of a collage it would be even better (because they would reveal more detail). At any rate, based on the new pics this 16600 looks enticing. Typically when I acquire a watch as new as this I always want to get the full set, and I'm not worried about paying a premium. Upon closer examination of this SD coupled with more essential details, 10K may not be too out of line. But yes, here in the U.S. one can find a good Full Kit 16600 on the low end--say btw $7200 - $8200.
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Old 13 February 2019, 08:02 PM   #24
Hammer2016
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Thanks for the responses, guys! I think even in Europe this one is priced up at the sharper end - it's the most expensive I've seen - and I've seen a few of these sell recently over here with full kit for under $8500, I just missed out on them.

I think if I'm patient I'll be able to find a good one for less than that. Without full kit, far less than that. I'm not willing to pay a huge premium for full kit, as I buy watches to wear rather than as an investment (good examples here can be had without full kit for well under $8000). Obviously value retention is nice, but not the absolute priority.

This just looked like a good one, so I thought it would be worth exploring how much movement there'd be on the price. Having spoken to the seller, I suspect not very much, and almost certainly not enough!
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Old 14 February 2019, 02:12 AM   #25
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If I was considering paying $10k for a 16600, I'd just pay $11k and buy the NOS one here:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ighlight=16600
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Old 17 February 2019, 03:51 AM   #26
Hammer2016
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I'm sure you're all sick of this topic by now, so apologies in advance, and also for the whitebox photos - every dealer this side of the atlantic seems to do them like this!

My question, have the crown guards been polished too far on this one? Or is it worth considering? It's a full set, priced at a more realistic level than the last one.
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Old 17 February 2019, 04:54 AM   #27
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My question, have the crown guards been polished too far on this one?
Yes, most definitely. I'd pass no matter the price, but maybe that's just me. There are too many good examples out there of this reference to settle for subpar, even if you're saving a couple of bucks.
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Old 17 February 2019, 05:05 AM   #28
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There’s an unpolished 16600 in the classifieds right now.
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Old 17 February 2019, 05:12 AM   #29
Hammer2016
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There’s an unpolished 16600 in the classifieds right now.
Thanks, I'm looking for an EU based watch, and also a SuperLuminova with lug holes. Narrowing the field a bit, I know, but that's the one I want!
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Old 17 February 2019, 05:13 AM   #30
Hammer2016
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Yes, most definitely. I'd pass no matter the price, but maybe that's just me. There are too many good examples out there of this reference to settle for subpar, even if you're saving a couple of bucks.
Yeah, I reckoned that was the case. Just wanted to see if I was being overly precious about it! Thanks! The search continues...
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