Advice on avoiding scams?

[shnxx]

I wanted to seek some general advice on how to avoid scams when selling your used Rolexes online.
Obviously, forum members and eBay offer pretty good prices if the sale goes well, but there seems to be significant risk with it, since the buyer could pull some shenanigans, such as claiming that the watch received is fake, or some type of a PayPal maneuver.

What are some ways to avoid scams when you're selling?

Note: My previous thread got deleted because I talked about my watches (I found that it is against the rules to solicit sales), so I hope this will be okay!

[sensui]

I would accept only wires or cash at a bank face to face. Or only sell to very established buyers if you even want to think about PayPal.

[shnxx]

Originally Posted by sensui

I would accept only wires or cash at a bank face to face. Or only sell to very established buyers if you even want to think about PayPal.

So that would rule out ebay right?
Are there any possible issues with wires?
For instance, if I'm a private buyer, I would feel a bit uneasy about doing a wire transfer to a private seller with no track record, as I am (I've never sold any of my watches before on TRF or anywhere)

[sensui]

Originally Posted by shnxx

So that would rule out ebay right?
Are there any possible issues with wires?
For instance, if I'm a private buyer, I would feel a bit uneasy about doing a wire transfer to a private seller with no track record, as I am (I've never sold any of my watches before on TRF or anywhere)

I wouldn't sell valuables on eBay without feedback. You can use it to advertise, but you need to pay eBay's share and go through PayPal for the protection programs.

The only way to get buyers without real feedback is low pricing imo otherwise people wouldn't take a risk. You can always ask trusted sellers here what the trade/buy values are to make things easier but of course that's the least profitable way..but might be worth considering if you have no feedback for the headache free convenience.

[Bigsykedaddy]

Originally Posted by shnxx

So that would rule out ebay right?
Are there any possible issues with wires?
For instance, if I'm a private buyer, I would feel a bit uneasy about doing a wire transfer to a private seller with no track record, as I am (I've never sold any of my watches before on TRF or anywhere)

I recently sold my first watch here to a TRF member. As the seller you have to only accept a bank wire, otherwise you never know what could happen (IE charge back etc.) The only time I would take PayPal if it is someone who is really well known on the forums and wouldn't want their reputation ruined. Even then obviously proceed only if you feel comfortable.

I would stay away from eBay because that is a scammers paradise. I would ask a little less than trusted sellers do (IE $200 or so) and in my case I had bought watches from DavidSW, Takuya and Justrolexes so I had them as a reference as a buyer (not sure if that helped.)

But once the wire clears there is nothing they can do to get their money back, unless you scam them (which I hate scammers and I don't understand how those people sleep at night, so I'm sure you would never do that) at which point they can go to the authorities and try to get their money back.

Good luck, it takes some time but I would list it here for a good deal and see if you either get an established member willing to use PayPal or if you find someone else to eventually trust you and wire you the money.

It feels good to get your first sale done here so you have at least a very humble start at a solid reputation.

Hope that helps some

[shnxx]

Originally Posted by Bigsykedaddy

I recently sold my first watch here to a TRF member. As the seller you have to only accept a bank wire, otherwise you never know what could happen (IE charge back etc.) The only time I would take PayPal if it is someone who is really well known on the forums and wouldn't want their reputation ruined. Even then obviously proceed only if you feel comfortable.

I would stay away from eBay because that is a scammers paradise. I would ask a little less than trusted sellers do (IE $200 or so) and in my case I had bought watches from DavidSW, Takuya and Justrolexes so I had them as a reference as a buyer (not sure if that helped.)

But once the wire clears there is nothing they can do to get their money back, unless you scam them (which I hate scammers and I don't understand how those people sleep at night, so I'm sure you would never do that) at which point they can go to the authorities and try to get their money back.

Good luck, it takes some time but I would list it here for a good deal and see if you either get an established member willing to use PayPal or if you find someone else to eventually trust you and wire you the money.

It feels good to get your first sale done here so you have at least a very humble start at a solid reputation.

Hope that helps some

Thanks for the input.
I guess wire transfer has personal information so it is possible for the buyer to have some way of recovering the money, which is at least some assurance that the seller will perform.

I have reference from the three places I bought my watches from, with receipts, so hopefully that should provide more assurance, despite my lack of record selling watches on this forum.

That sounds great. Now I have a little better idea on how to proceed.


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[Bigsykedaddy]

Originally Posted by shnxx

Thanks for the input.
I guess wire transfer has personal information so it is possible for the buyer to have some way of recovering the money, which is at least some assurance that the seller will perform.

I have reference from the three places I bought my watches from, with receipts, so hopefully that should provide more assurance, despite my lack of record selling watches on this forum.

That sounds great. Now I have a little better idea on how to proceed.


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Back when I was thinking about selling my first watch here (not the BLNR I sold) My local AD said he would vouch for me if I needed him to. So maybe you can contact one of the people you know at your AD and ask if you can use them as a reference. That way if someone has concerns you can give them the phone number and name of your AD and he can vouch for you.

Good luck

[Tony64]

You'll find that there's an abundance of opinion on TRF and elsewhere that you should only accept wire transfer as a seller, and always insist on PayPal as a buyer. Each obviously protects an individual seller or buyer but in ways that mutually exclude any transaction.

Best advice to avoid scams is "buy the seller" and also "buy the buyer". Making a deal with an unknown and unproven seller/buyer is inherently risky and requires an understanding that only one can be adequately protected in that equation, and at the expense of the other. Generally speaking, the less established partner in the transaction will need to make the concession.

I suppose "face to face" could be a solution for some, but I'd just assume confine my interaction with the majority of you to cyberspace. No offense intended.

[Bigsykedaddy]

Originally Posted by Tony64

You'll find that there's an abundance of opinion on TRF and elsewhere that you should only accept wire transfer as a seller, and always insist on PayPal as a buyer. Each obviously protects an individual seller or buyer but in ways that mutually exclude any transaction.

Best advice to avoid scams is "buy the seller" and also "buy the buyer". Making a deal with an unknown and unproven seller/buyer is inherently risky and requires an understanding that only one can be adequately protected in that equation, and at the expense of the other. Generally speaking, the less established partner in the transaction will need to make the concession.

I suppose "face to face" could be a solution for some, but I'd just assume confine my interaction with the majority of you to cyberspace. No offense intended.

Yeah that does make a lot of sense. I'm new here but I'm very active and the guy who bought the BLNR from me was brand new. So even though I haven't been here for many years, I've purchased from 3 different trusted sellers and I care about my rep. So seeing as he was brand new with only a couple posts he decided to wire the money to me. Once it cleared I sent him the watch because I would never ever screw someone over like that (of course only I know that.)

Another thing that may have helped me is that I provided him to my business eBay account proving that I had 100% feedback since 2003 (no high priced watches though) and also to my 100% rated GOAT account (high priced sneakers.) He also asked for my personal facebook so he could at least verify who I was.

Good advice

[jhcam8]

Originally Posted by sensui

I would accept only wires or cash at a bank face to face. Or only sell to very established buyers if you even want to think about PayPal.

[jhcam8]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I suppose "face to face" could be a solution for some, but I'd just assume confine my interaction with the majority of you to cyberspace. No offense intended.

None taken....

[Etschell]

davidsw.

[sueno213]

I am ashamed to say, but I got scammed for thousands on a 5712 in steel from another website. My mistakes 1 Didnot buy the seller, he had very few references and provided their email address way too fast. 2. it was too good to be true. 3. paid by wire transfer and had no way to recoup the money...I called the FBI, small potatoes to them. In retrospect should have insisted in paypal. I now only deal with known sellers.

[Pavlos]

Got mine from an AD new.

[roaddog359]

As a buyer I dont do wire transfers regardless of who you are. If I have to rely on someone sending me a watch they can offer me some protection of Paypal or CC. If you only want to take wire transfer you have just decrease your number of buys.

[rolehex]

Originally Posted by roaddog359

As a buyer I dont do wire transfers regardless of who you are. If I have to rely on someone sending me a watch they can offer me some protection of Paypal or CC. If you only want to take wire transfer you have just decrease your number of buys.

I agree, as a buyer I would not wire transfer to anyone, I need some protection. I have bought and sold many watches through Ebay and have also done face to face transactions. With your experience and feedback though Ebay I don't see the problem there. Only the fees sure add up.

[jhcam8]

Originally Posted by Tony64

You'll find that there's an abundance of opinion on TRF and elsewhere that you should only accept wire transfer as a seller, and always insist on PayPal as a buyer. Each obviously protects an individual seller or buyer but in ways that mutually exclude any transaction.

Best advice to avoid scams is "buy the seller" and also "buy the buyer". Making a deal with an unknown and unproven seller/buyer is inherently risky and requires an understanding that only one can be adequately protected in that equation, and at the expense of the other. Generally speaking, the less established partner in the transaction will need to make the concession.

I suppose "face to face" could be a solution for some, but I'd just assume confine my interaction with the majority of you to cyberspace. No offense intended.

Good advice.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by rolehex

I agree, as a buyer I would not wire transfer to anyone, I need some protection. I have bought and sold many watches through Ebay and have also done face to face transactions. With your experience and feedback though Ebay I don't see the problem there. Only the fees sure add up.

Any seller is also looking for the same protection; Paypal Ebay and CC do not side with the seller in case of any dispute. Leaves many of them with the wire option only. I would have no problem with sending lots of serious members here money by wire in advance. Pretty decent crowd around here.

[shnxx]

I would like some advice.

I am talking with a member of TRF regarding sale of two watches (5127 Patek and a Breguet Reine).
He has purchased from Erik Szper at Radcliffe jewelers before and has one review on Who's Who from OCROLEXGUY.

We have shared passport photos and other information, but he is asking that I send the watch to an intermediary, such as a trusted seller like DAVIDSW, and then he will send the funds, after which I can okay the intermediary to send the watch.

Is this a good setup?
It seems very risky to send watches to a third party without any funds first given that the watches could be lost or damaged and the intermediary is not going to take responsibility if the watches are damaged.



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[JayB]

Originally Posted by shnxx

I would like some advice.

I am talking with a member of TRF regarding sale of two watches (5127 Patek and a Breguet Reine).
He has purchased from Erik Szper at Radcliffe jewelers before and has one review on Who's Who from OCROLEXGUY.

We have shared passport photos and other information, but he is asking that I send the watch to an intermediary, such as a trusted seller like DAVIDSW, and then he will send the funds, after which I can okay the intermediary to send the watch.

Is this a good setup?
It seems very risky to send watches to a third party without any funds first given that the watches could be lost or damaged and the intermediary is not going to take responsibility if the watches are damaged.



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Sounds like a reasonable setup to me, DavidSW is a recommended and trusted member on these forums. Regarding the safety of your watches, as long as you fully insure them when sending you shouldn't have a problem. DavidSW is a dealer and I would assume his insurance will cover the watches from the minute he receives them.

I would advise double checking with DavidSW before you agree to anything.

[shnxx]

Originally Posted by JayB

Sounds like a reasonable setup to me, DavidSW is a recommended and trusted member on these forums. Regarding the safety of your watches, as long as you fully insure them when sending you shouldn't have a problem. DavidSW is a dealer and I would assume his insurance will cover the watches from the minute he receives them.

I would advise double checking with DavidSW before you agree to anything.

Thanks for the advice JayB!

[shnxx]

Originally Posted by JayB

Sounds like a reasonable setup to me, DavidSW is a recommended and trusted member on these forums. Regarding the safety of your watches, as long as you fully insure them when sending you shouldn't have a problem. DavidSW is a dealer and I would assume his insurance will cover the watches from the minute he receives them.



I would advise double checking with DavidSW before you agree to anything.

Regarding insurance, what is the best way of shipping and what kind of insurance should be purchased? Do buyers pay for shipping+insurance?


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by shnxx

Regarding insurance, what is the best way of shipping and what kind of insurance should be purchased? Do buyers pay for shipping+insurance?


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Some sellers include shipping plus insurance, some don't. Bear in mind that the seller carries all the risk until the buyer receives the watch.

If I were the seller, I'd want to know that risk is mitigated, not hope it's mitigated. The only way to know is to get the courier and insurance yourself, and set yourself as the beneficiary.

[shnxx]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Some sellers include shipping plus insurance, some don't. Bear in mind that the seller carries all the risk until the buyer receives the watch.



If I were the seller, I'd want to know that risk is mitigated, not hope it's mitigated. The only way to know is to get the courier and insurance yourself, and set yourself as the beneficiary.

Do you have any suggestions on which carrier to ship? I'll be shipping from US.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by shnxx

Do you have any suggestions on which carrier to ship? I'll be shipping from US.


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FedEx plus a third party insurance will deliver next day. FedEx insurance is about useless for this application, so don't rely on that.

[shnxx]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

FedEx plus a third party insurance will deliver next day. FedEx insurance is about useless for this application, so don't rely on that.

Sounds good. Are there any reputable third party insurance providers that you recommend?
I assume these aren't like State Farm type of insurance companies, but some kind of specialty insurance companies.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by shnxx

Sounds good. Are there any reputable third party insurance providers that you recommend?
I assume these aren't like State Farm type of insurance companies, but some kind of specialty insurance companies.


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Look into Parcel Pro

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