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Old 18 June 2020, 04:24 PM   #31
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Wow what a dilemma . . . waiting to see the outcome.
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Old 18 June 2020, 06:32 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by kbutler1 View Post
Through a trusted seller? Given the current environment and inability to properly authenticate at an AD, I’d be hesitant to buy anything unless from a reputable seller or AD.
Not sure it assists OP, but the RSC in HK is still open and accepting walk-ins.
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Old 19 June 2020, 12:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
This is what the case back stickers looked like during this era - a green sticker covered by a clear sticker with a red stripe. I've owned several new watches from as early as 1999 and some later ones and they all had the regular green case back sticker along with the clear/red stripe sticker. The case back sticker appears correct on this GMT!
To clarify, I was simply suggesting that on this particular watch, that the wear sticker was not original. It is absolutely "factory correct", as you mention.

I too have owned a few "NOS" watches with all factory stickers intact from that era (and specifically 16710s) and every one of them, along with every other one I've seen/handled, has had the case reference number on the green sticker.
The style/font has changed over the years, but it's always been there.

That being said: For some years, the reference number on the green hologram was very easily rubbed off, and would render the hologram "numberless" in very short order.
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Old 19 June 2020, 12:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
No it is not a concern that the model number is not on the sticker. There was probably a transition period at some point when the model number was no longer found of the green case back sticker.

Here is a 2004 Submariner 16610LV with no model number on the green case back sticker..
I've never seen or heard of any "transition period" during that era where the factory holograms didn't come with the reference numbers printed on them. If you absolutely know this to be true, I will concede the point.
However, your example simply shows a worn factory sticker with the reference number rubbed off (I've owned an `04 and `07 LV and both had the reference number on the stickers).
And again, there were some years where the number rubbed off very easily.




Here's an example of a "like new" watch, with faint remnants of the reference number still visible on the hologram sticker:

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Old 19 June 2020, 01:00 PM   #35
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Did you block out certain parts of 2 photo’s with white shapes yourself?
(Notes by red arrows)

If not, and the seller did that, then I wouldn’t proceed.
This is the bigger point. OP: this appears to be a scam.

Here is the original listing on C24 showing the dealer's logo that has been photo-shopped out of the pics you posted:

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/gmt-m...id14650383.htm

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Old 19 June 2020, 03:22 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by freefly View Post
This is the bigger point. OP: this appears to be a scam.

Here is the original listing on C24 showing the dealer's logo that has been photo-shopped out of the pics you posted:

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/gmt-m...id14650383.htm

OP said he blanked out areas in the pics.
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Old 19 June 2020, 03:52 PM   #37
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OP said he blanked out areas in the pics.
Missed that, thx.
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Old 23 July 2020, 11:00 PM   #38
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My 2007 LV did not have a reference number on the green sticker.
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Old 23 July 2020, 11:47 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
I did not think so.
If that was original then the model number on hologram would be intact, its not in my opinion.
Its worn - you should clearly be able to read model number
I am happy to admit I never purchased a ROLEX in the 70 or 80s
But I never saw a ROLEX with a HOLOGRAM and a "wear" strip original.
It's laughable for you to even attempt to contradict Springer about a GMT.
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Old 23 July 2020, 11:50 PM   #40
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It's laughable for you to even attempt to contradict Springer about a GMT.
Read closely.
It was not a contradiction.
It was an admission to his comment
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Old 24 July 2020, 01:05 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by freefly View Post
I've never seen or heard of any "transition period" during that era where the factory holograms didn't come with the reference numbers printed on them. If you absolutely know this to be true, I will concede the point.
I used to own a 16613LB bought used but most probably unworn with the sticker fully intact and without the reference on it.
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Old 24 July 2020, 08:30 AM   #42
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I used to own a 16613LB bought used but most probably unworn with the sticker fully intact and without the reference on it.
See post #34.

I've yet to see one truly "unworn" and/or "NOS" without the reference number on the sticker.

Again, the numbers were very easily rubbed off on certain years/ranges. The numbers on the last holograms were much more "permanent" than the preceding ones.
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Old 24 July 2020, 04:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
New watches came with the clear sticker with the red stripe as detailed in my previous post. I have three of them now.
He‘s 100% correct on that!
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Old 24 July 2020, 04:57 PM   #44
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It's borderline funny there is so much talk about the stickers! This is Rolex people. They do so many things differently on the same watch over its production life... Of course there have been hologram stickers with and without the model number, with and without protective stickers with red line (or without the line) on top.

The watch is clearly NOS and unworn. Just look at the lugs from the backside. Square and sharp. Now, the coverup of the pictures is another story (i.e. whether it's a scam or not). But the watch is new.
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Old 24 July 2020, 08:52 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by freefly View Post
See post #34.

I've yet to see one truly "unworn" and/or "NOS" without the reference number on the sticker.

Again, the numbers were very easily rubbed off on certain years/ranges. The numbers on the last holograms were much more "permanent" than the preceding ones.
See post #30. My watch was identical.
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Old 25 July 2020, 03:56 AM   #46
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See post #30. My watch was identical.
Yes, but "bought used" and "mostly unworn" is not what I would call irrefutable evidence on the matter. See post #34...again.
The watch in that pic could be considered "mostly unworn" as well, and the reference number on the sticker is almost completely gone (but still faintly visible).
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Old 25 July 2020, 10:24 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by freefly View Post
I've never seen or heard of any "transition period" during that era where the factory holograms didn't come with the reference numbers printed on them. If you absolutely know this to be true, I will concede the point.
However, your example simply shows a worn factory sticker with the reference number rubbed off (I've owned an `04 and `07 LV and both had the reference number on the stickers).
And again, there were some years where the number rubbed off very easily.




Here's an example of a "like new" watch, with faint remnants of the reference number still visible on the hologram sticker:

No I do not know for certain, I did say "probably," so no, I am not certain. My 16610LV which is missing the model number stamping on the hologram sticker is not a "fake" hologram sticker so my comment was speculation. If I did know for sure, I would have said so. Thanks for your comments and I would agree that, yes, the possibility of the model number being rubbed off was definitely another possibility, but, if you read the rest of this thread, Ilikesubs wrote that his 16610LV hologram sticker did not have the model number typed on his hologram.
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Old 25 July 2020, 10:33 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by IlikeSubs View Post
My 2007 LV did not have a reference number on the green sticker.
Maybe you could provide more detail, such as, whether the model number was on the hologram sticker when you purchased the watch, or did the model number rub off the hologram sticker in time from wearing the watch. Thanks.
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Old 25 July 2020, 10:49 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
No I do not know for certain, I did say "probably," so no, I am not certain. My 16610LV which is missing the model number stamping on the hologram sticker is not a "fake" hologram sticker so my comment was speculation. If I did know for sure, I would have said so. Thanks for your comments and I would agree that, yes, the possibility of the model number being rubbed off was definitely another possibility, but, if you read the rest of this thread, Ilikesubs wrote that his 16610LV hologram sticker did not have the model number typed on his hologram.
`Tis all good. More of a curiosity, and was hoping you might have some solid intel (as you typically do) for us to learn something new.

Though, it is a minor pet-peeve of mine when I see watches listed as "unworn" and/or "NOS" (with the accompanying price premium) when they clearly are not.
In the OP's case here however, I think it's safe to say it's as close to "unworn" as one could reasonably expect.
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Old 25 July 2020, 10:55 AM   #50
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Maybe you could provide more detail, such as, whether the model number was on the hologram sticker when you purchased the watch, or did the model number rub off the hologram sticker in time from wearing the watch. Thanks.
And if he was the original purchaser.
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Old 25 July 2020, 02:11 PM   #51
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Maybe you could provide more detail, such as, whether the model number was on the hologram sticker when you purchased the watch, or did the model number rub off the hologram sticker in time from wearing the watch. Thanks.
It’s been 13 years, but I don’t recall the numbers having ever been on the hologram of my z serial LV. It’s possible I’m misremembering.
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Old 26 July 2020, 03:48 AM   #52
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It doesn't look like NOS. bezel teeth look rounded, caseback sticker look used, Clasp coronet look polished.

This. It’s a nice example but not NOS.


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Old 26 July 2020, 06:21 AM   #53
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And if he was the original purchaser.
I talked with IlikeSubs today and he said he was the original purchaser of his 16610LV.
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Old 26 July 2020, 08:49 AM   #54
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I talked with IlikeSubs today and he said he was the original purchaser of his 16610LV.
He mentioned above he may be misremembering...

Here are a few data points for that specific reference & production date range (Z-serial 16610LV).
All are listed as "NOS" and all have the reference number on the hologram:

rolex-16610lv-submariner-50th-anniversary-green-z-serial-unworn-full-set-nos

rolex-submariner-green-bezel-model-16610lv-50th-anniversary-sub-lv-z

rolex-submariner-16610lv-50th-anniversary-green-sub-nos

rolex-submariner-16610-nos-sub-date-z-serial-sealed-rare-find-nib

Rolex_SS_Green_Submariner_16610LV_new_old_stock

FS NOS Rolex Kermit Green Sub 16610LV "Z" series

Fs: Rolex submariner 16610lv nos 'z'

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