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Old 28 July 2020, 10:04 AM   #1
dpt.calvin
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Question About Purchasing a Birth Year 16710

Hello all,

I am currently seeking a birth year (1988) GMT Master II. Every website I come across says that the 16710 was available from 1989-2007. However, the (reputable) seller I inquiring with says they have a 16710 from 1988.

Is it possible there were some 16710s made in 1988 or is the seller just trying to make a sale? They do not have the warranty card to verify the production date, but rather going off the serial number.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 28 July 2020, 10:12 AM   #2
Dan S
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I think you want a 16760. Using the serial number to date the watch is just a rough guess.
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Old 28 July 2020, 10:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpt.calvin View Post
. . .
Is it possible there were some 16710s made in 1988 or is the seller just trying to make a sale? They do not have the warranty card to verify the production date, but rather going off the serial number.

Thanks in advance!
The GMT II came to life in 1983 as the 16760. 5 years later, in mid-1988, Rolex announced the "new" 16710, but it didn't really hit the Dealers until '89 according to popular lore.

Same with the GMT Master. The 16750 ended in '88, and the 16700 took over; exactly when is ambiguous.

Pick one that is close enough and call it what you want.
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Old 28 July 2020, 10:28 AM   #4
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I think you want a 16760. Using the serial number to date the watch is just a rough guess.
Unfortunately, I am not very fond of the Fat Lady. Hmm...

I just got off the phone with another customer service representative and his explanation was this: the case was built in 1988 and thus stamped with a 1988 serial number, but the watch was not built to completion/produced until 1989.
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Old 28 July 2020, 10:46 AM   #5
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Unfortunately, I am not very fond of the Fat Lady. Hmm...

I just got off the phone with another customer service representative and his explanation was this: the case was built in 1988 and thus stamped with a 1988 serial number, but the watch was not built to completion/produced until 1989.
Who knows. As Larry mentioned, it's always a bit of guesswork with Rolex. Maybe you just decide it's close enough, especially since you prefer this reference.
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Old 28 July 2020, 06:16 PM   #6
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The production year within 1-2 years variance is acceptable as the case number is rough estimation only


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Old 28 July 2020, 06:29 PM   #7
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I would take the ‘89 as being close enough.

After all it take a year to make a Rolex.

Or lie about your age?

Eddie.
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Old 28 July 2020, 06:48 PM   #8
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Whatever your budget is, buy the best 16710 out there that allows it. Do not look at the year.

So which one would you choose?

For example
1995 GMT - 10k usd/euro - overall condition 9/10
1988 GMT - 10k usd/euro - overall condition 7/10 but it's the best one out of all the 1988 watches. There is no 9/10 out there.
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Old 28 July 2020, 11:14 PM   #9
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Question About Purchasing a Birth Year 16710

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahlberg View Post
Whatever your budget is, buy the best 16710 out there that allows it. Do not look at the year.



So which one would you choose?



For example

1995 GMT - 10k usd/euro - overall condition 9/10

1988 GMT - 10k usd/euro - overall condition 7/10 but it's the best one out of all the 1988 watches. There is no 9/10 out there.

This is good advice, buy the watch not the backstory. The only time I would invest in the backstory is if it is a full set w/receipts bought during Vietnam for example.

What everyone is saying is the data out there is within 1-2 years correct. I see a lot of guys get hung up on this birth year thing, don’t get attached to one watch because you think it was born the year you were. You may make a bad decision, Rolex made a lot of watches.

You can use the serial and the clasp code on the band to make a decision about when it was made. I would focus on the quality of the watch first, they aren’t cheap.

Go find you a creamy lume 87-90 watch that makes you drool.
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Old 28 July 2020, 11:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahlberg View Post
Whatever your budget is, buy the best 16710 out there that allows it. Do not look at the year.

So which one would you choose?

For example
1995 GMT - 10k usd/euro - overall condition 9/10
1988 GMT - 10k usd/euro - overall condition 7/10 but it's the best one out of all the 1988 watches. There is no 9/10 out there.
Quote:
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This is good advice, buy the watch not the backstory. The only time I would invest in the backstory is if it is a full set w/receipts bought during Vietnam for example.

What everyone is saying is the data out there is within 1-2 years correct. I see a lot of guys get hung up on this birth year thing, don’t get attached to one watch because you think it was born the year you were. You may make a bad decision, Rolex made a lot of watches.

You can use the serial and the clasp code on the band to make a decision about when it was made. I would focus on the quality of the watch first, they aren’t cheap.

Go find you a creamy lume 87-90 watch that makes you drool.
Point taken. I am seeing 2 options from the seller.

1) The "1988" that I have been looking at. Overall, nice condition...but it's been polished (as they have all been from this seller). The hands are starting to show some wear, which I can appreciate. The tritium has not yet turned creamy yellow, but I look forward to that.

2) There is a 2006 model that has SEL and no holes lugs. Again, the condition looks very good. Also polished, but slightly less so as they lugs appear to be in better condition (slightly).

My issue is: I adore the tritium dial from the 1988, but prefer the SEL on the 2006.

The 2006 is in better condition, so by your recommendations that is the better buy. I'm sure I'd be very happy with it, but I'd like to see tritium start to yellow during ownership.

I am not a collector or trader. This watch will be kept and worn.

I guess what it comes down to is...which watch would make me smile most when I look down at my wrist...but even I don't know that answer...
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Old 29 July 2020, 12:48 AM   #11
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Aside from small variances, a 16710 is pretty much the same watch overall.

I would not settle for a later model if I wanted a tritium dial. But I wouldn't be considering an '88/'89 example if it's condition wasn't as good as I wanted it to be in - there are a lot of 16710's out there.

In the end, you intend to wear it, so find the best one you can in your price range, and then you put the wear and tear on it.
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Old 29 July 2020, 12:48 AM   #12
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If it is important to you to have some patina on the tritium markers, then I suggest that you look for a watch that already looks that way. If a 32 year-old watch still has white lume, then I wouldn't count on it turning creamy yellow in your lifetime.
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Old 29 July 2020, 01:36 AM   #13
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Aside from small variances, a 16710 is pretty much the same watch overall.

I would not settle for a later model if I wanted a tritium dial. But I wouldn't be considering an '88/'89 example if it's condition wasn't as good as I wanted it to be in - there are a lot of 16710's out there.

In the end, you intend to wear it, so find the best one you can in your price range, and then you put the wear and tear on it.
Thanks for that. Tritium is important to me. I've never had a watch without SEL, so I'm just concerned about how the bracelet will feel/fit. That is what makes me want the 2006 more than anything else. So I guess it comes down to what's more important to me: tritium vs SEL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
If it is important to you to have some patina on the tritium markers, then I suggest that you look for a watch that already looks that way. If a 32 year-old watch still has white lume, then I wouldn't count on it turning creamy yellow in your lifetime.
What exactly causes patina if it isn't just age? Sunlight/UV exposure? I see some 16710s from 1991 with a little more patina on the tritium than this 1988 I am looking at.
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Old 29 July 2020, 02:35 AM   #14
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Thanks for that. Tritium is important to me. I've never had a watch without SEL, so I'm just concerned about how the bracelet will feel/fit. That is what makes me want the 2006 more than anything else. So I guess it comes down to what's more important to me: tritium vs SEL...
Most GMT's back into the mid 90's can be fitted with the 78790A SEL GMT bracelet.

Rolex is a bit of an enigma. They knew about, and had developed SEL's a decade before implementing them. And they machined the cases of the models that would eventually get SEL.

They look you straight in the face and say "this year didn't come with an SEL bracelet, so we will only sell you the non-SEL bracelet"; yet that case was machined by them to accept an SEL. What was the point in making the cases that way if they never expected the watch to be used with SEL?

Anyway, you have several years of GMT with Tritium that will accept an SEL bracelet if that's what floats 'yer boat.
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Old 29 July 2020, 03:09 AM   #15
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They look you straight in the face and say "this year didn't come with an SEL bracelet, so we will only sell you the non-SEL bracelet"
So my only option would be to purchase gray market if I want to stay OEM?
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Old 29 July 2020, 03:23 AM   #16
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What exactly causes patina if it isn't just age? Sunlight/UV exposure? I see some 16710s from 1991 with a little more patina on the tritium than this 1988 I am looking at.
Yes, the environmental conditions experienced by the watch, but also the particular lume formula that was applied to that specific watch from that factory in that year.
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Old 29 July 2020, 07:43 AM   #17
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So my only option would be to purchase gray market if I want to stay OEM?

The modern bands are strong, the Non SEL when sized correctly will work fine.




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Old 3 August 2020, 08:09 AM   #18
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I ended up purchasing the 1988 (1989) on Friday. Aside from my car overheating on the I-5 South in the middle of the day and having to be towed 65 miles, I'm happy with my purchase.

I am not planning to purchase a new bracelet any time soon. However, I do want to ask, for the purpose of knowing, what bracelets will fit. I've read that the 78790A will only fit cases that were intended for SEL. I've also read the 93250 will fit.
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Old 3 August 2020, 12:36 PM   #19
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I think I understand now. At some point in the mid-90s, Rolex started producing cases that would accept SEL but did not actually use SEL until the early 2000s (at least with the 16710). However, mine being a very early example, will not accept the 78790A. Is that correct?

So I am to believe that my 1988 will, with 501B end links, accept:

1) 78360 (what's on there now)
2) 78790 (non-A)

What about the 93250 and 93150? Not period correct but has diver's extension.

Is there a fliplock clasp that will fit my 78360? If so, what is the part number?
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Old 3 August 2020, 12:46 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dpt.calvin View Post
I think I understand now. At some point in the mid-90s, Rolex started producing cases that would accept SEL but did not actually use SEL until the early 2000s (at least with the 16710). However, mine being a very early example, will not accept the 78790A. Is that correct?

So I am to believe that my 1988 will, with 501B end links, accept:

1) 78360 (what's on there now)
2) 78790

What about the 93250 and 93150? Not period correct but has diver's extension.

Is there a fliplock clasp that will fit my 78360? If so, what is the part number?
The clasp really doesn't affect the fit of the bracelet to the watch, so the bracelets with fliplock clasps will fit as long as you use the right endlinks. You can also swap out clasps if you want, although value-wise, you'd probably be better off selling your bracelet and buying a complete 93150 with flip-lock. Or just offer to make a trade, there are plenty of people out there with 78360 bracelets on their Subs.
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Old 5 August 2020, 01:50 PM   #21
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The clasp really doesn't affect the fit of the bracelet to the watch, so the bracelets with fliplock clasps will fit as long as you use the right endlinks. You can also swap out clasps if you want, although value-wise, you'd probably be better off selling your bracelet and buying a complete 93150 with flip-lock. Or just offer to make a trade, there are plenty of people out there with 78360 bracelets on their Subs.
Roger that. I'll likely stick with my current bracelet and clasp. Was just curious for the time being. Thanks!
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Old 5 August 2020, 02:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpt.calvin View Post
I think I understand now. At some point in the mid-90s, Rolex started producing cases that would accept SEL but did not actually use SEL until the early 2000s (at least with the 16710). However, mine being a very early example, will not accept the 78790A. Is that correct?

So I am to believe that my 1988 will, with 501B end links, accept:

1) 78360 (what's on there now)
2) 78790 (non-A)

What about the 93250 and 93150? Not period correct but has diver's extension.

Is there a fliplock clasp that will fit my 78360? If so, what is the part number?
The 93250 is an SEL extension bracelet. The 78790 has the flip-lock.

Here is the difference on machined cases to accept an SEL. The left is not machined, the right is machined. No shelf, no SEL, but the 501 endlinks will fit on almost any Oyster bracelet/case with the right bracelet.

SubShelf.JPG
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