Vintage Datejust - 1970

[ArchieRLib]

Hello guys. Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I've been interested in a vintage Datejust for some time, and have done plenty of research; however, I am no expert. I'm not a collector, I'm just a guy looking for a good vintage daily wear.

I came across a listing on Chrono24, from Italy, which advertises a circa 1970 DJ 1601 silver dial, jubilee. It has nice patina to the dial so I checked it out and had some communications with the seller, including having him take some additional photos (there was not much detail in the listing). He tells me the watch has been serviced and polished (polishing not a concern to me), and that the bracelet was refurbished, polished and tightened as well.

I have a couple concerns and wanted to get your thoughts. First of all, the case back has a "1600" model (smooth bezel), whereas the case itself is inscribed "1601", which it appears to be, with a fluted bezel. I don't know if this is common. Also, the serial number is very hard to read, but it looks like it begins with a "5", which would put it somewhere completely not 1970. I can't tell if it is a six or seven-digit number, and don't know much about the fonts I should be seeing. Also, the band appears to be in exceptional shape, even for a refurb and tightening. Anyway, spidey senses were tingling a little and I thought I'd post up here and see what you might have to say.

I can't post a link yet because I'm a new poster, but I've attached some pics. The listing code on the Chrono 24 site is INPYF4 if you care to have a gander.

Thanks.

[ArchieRLib]

So I guess I'm wondering if it is a FrankenJust or a fake... Anyway, thanks for any input.

Rich

[CTech]

This needs to be in the Vintage section to get the exposure for the experts to advise what is going on with the watch.

I'll try to flag it so hopefully one of the mods will be able to move it for you, but if that doesn't work you can always start a new post in the Vintage section.

This is the Chrono24 link:

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/datej...id31339815.htm

and I've taken a quick look at it.

The case back showing 1600 with a 1601 case is common as I guess Rolex used that case back for all or most of the 1600 series.

The serial number doesn't make much sense and needs more work to explain what has happened. Even if there is a digit missing it still doesn't look right, for example, if the serial number was 1.5 million it would mean the watch was made around 1979 and it wouldn't have the 1570/1575 movement. It's possible this is an assembled watch with an older movement in a newer case.

The bracelet looks to be newer than 1970 as well so I'd want to see if there are any date codes on the clasp that could help with understanding that.

More expert eyes would pick up on a lot of other clues so moving this to the right section of the forum would help a lot, but in the meantime it's worth considering why this watch is priced so attractively compared to others on the market. Does the seller know it is a mixture of parts, or is there some other reason the price isn't about another $1000 higher?

[ArchieRLib]

Thanks CTech. I appreciate the information. I cloned the post over in "Vintage" and hope to get some feedback there.

I'm not sure if they are aware or not, and haven't asked yet. I wanted to get some feedback here before asking anything. It is defininitely an odd price and a private seller. I like to think maybe this is someone who came into this watch and just wants to sell it quick by undercutting the market a little; but the more I look at it the more questions I have.

Anyway, thanks for your help.

[Dan S]

Later in the 1970s, not 1970, but ok so far. It's common to have a 1600 case-back. Please post photos of the dial, clasp, etc.

[ArchieRLib]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Later in the 1970s, not 1970, but ok so far. It's common to have a 1600 case-back. Please post photos of the dial, clasp, etc.

Hi Dan. Unfortunately, I can't post those, as they are on the Chrono24 site and I can't save them to my desktop. The item ID there is INPYF4. If you enter that into the "Search" field it will come up. I asked for a photo of the clasp but haven't received it as yet.

Thanks.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ArchieRLib

Hi Dan. Unfortunately, I can't post those, as they are on the Chrono24 site and I can't save them to my desktop. The item ID there is INPYF4. If you enter that into the "Search" field it will come up. I asked for a photo of the clasp but haven't received it as yet.

Thanks.

You can always save a screen capture. I'm not going to search on C24. Make sure you get good clear photos of the clasp and the blades, including the Rolex logo and scrolls, and any engravings. Also the endlinks, if you are suspicious about the bracelet.

[CTech]

Here is the watch on Chrono24:

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/datej...id31339815.htm

[ArchieRLib]

Yes. Here are a few others.

[offrdmania]

Based off the 5.2mil serial number on the case, it would be around 1977. Not sure where the seller came up with 1970 which would be a 2.5mil serial number

[ArchieRLib]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Based off the 5.2mil serial number on the case, it would be around 1977. Not sure where the seller came up with 1970 which would be a 2.5mil serial number

Would the 1570 still be in use in 1977, or would it have been a 1575?

[Dan S]

Not seeing any issues so far, but post good images of the bracelet blades when you get them. This is probably the most common variant, so it should be very easy to find comps for valuation. What is the asking price?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ArchieRLib

Would the 1570 still be in use in 1977, or would it have been a 1575?

As long as it hacks, I wouldn't worry too much about the number on the plate.

[ArchieRLib]

Originally Posted by Dan S

What is the asking price?

Right at $4K.

[Dan S]

It's not a crazy price, but not a huge bargain in the current market, and as I mentioned previously it's a very common variant. Is there some reason you're considering buying a watch from an unknown C24 seller in Italy? If that bracelet turns out to be aftermarket (or has aftermarket parts), it would not be a good buy. You can probably get that watch from a dealer for about the same price, and for significantly less from a private seller.

[ArchieRLib]

Originally Posted by Dan S

It's not a crazy price, but not a huge bargain in the current market, and as I mentioned previously it's a very common variant. Is there some reason you're considering buying a watch from an unknown C24 seller in Italy? If that bracelet turns out to be aftermarket (or has aftermarket parts), it would not be a good buy. You can probably get that watch from a dealer for about the same price, and for significantly less from a private seller.

No, no real reason. Just shopping around. I've bought a couple watches on C24 with no issues at all, but this would be the first Rolex. I found this watch and it seemed to me that the price point was well under several others on that site for a DJ in that condition, and it checked a few boxes for me. After communicating with the seller a bit I thought I'd seek some input here.

Unfortunately, I have no Rolex dealer near me. I'm in the market so I'm sifting through online sources.

[Dan S]

I don't mean a Rolex dealer. I'm referring to an established vintage watch dealer, to whom you would pay a premium. But I'd rather pay a premium to a known quantity, than to an unknown seller on C24.

I tend to find that C24 asking prices are well above what I would consider market price, in general. Not a place I'd really look to buy.

[ArchieRLib]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't mean a Rolex dealer. I'm referring to an established vintage watch dealer, to whom you would pay a premium. But I'd rather pay a premium to a known quantity, than to an unknown seller on C24..

Gotcha. That makes sense. Any established vintage dealers online that you would suggest?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ArchieRLib

Gotcha. That makes sense. Any established vintage dealers online that you would suggest?

There is a whole sticky thread on the topic.

[offrdmania]

Here you go OP.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/s6kv

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=1601

[ArchieRLib]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Here you go OP.

Thank you very much offrd. I appreciate it.

[Moonwatcher]

A 1601 from 1970 should have a bracelet with folded links.
The one on C24 has not.
I would certainly pass.

[ArchieRLib]

Originally Posted by Moonwatcher

A 1601 from 1970 should have a bracelet with folded links.
The one on C24 has not.
I would certainly pass.

Thanks Moonwatcher.

[Nick9]

On the other hand, I would not let the absence of the correct bracelet hold me back too much on a watch that old. Bracelets wear out and are replaced.

As long as it’s authentic Rolex, I wouldn’t be bothered.

As Dan S says above, the asking price is a little on the high side. Maybe negotiate a bit, especially if there’s no documentation on the servicing.

[ArchieRLib]

Here is a shot of the inside of the clasp that was sent to me this morning.