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Old 29 September 2017, 04:02 AM   #1
fizz
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5513 stopped working

I really could not find any previous thread about this so starting this one.

My 5513 abruptly stopped working this afternoon. It has been with me for nearly 2 years and during this time the only issue I had was the crown and stem came out ( a common problem I've been told with vintage) which was quickly fixed by a very reliable vintage watch store here in Dubai.

I intend to go back to him once the weekend is over but before I do, I'm curious to know what the problem might be and what kind of monetary damage I'm looking at to fix this. I have tried to wind the crown 40 times clockwise and even shaken it up to kick-start it but apart from moving a few seconds, nothing has happened.
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Old 29 September 2017, 04:48 AM   #2
Richard Carver
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No service history? If unknown, a full service might be in order. Don't know about Dubai but in the US it can range from 250 for a cleaning and oil, no parts to 1500 for a lot of work. It doesn't get much more expensive because a working movement can be had for less.

Could be a broken mainspring...or a lot of other stuff! :)
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Old 29 September 2017, 04:51 AM   #3
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Thanks Richard, always appreciate your inputs.

The watch was apparently serviced by the seller (a store with their own service person) before it was sold to me and has run pretty reliably (+/- 3 sec a day) since.

When the local vintage store fixed the crown problem, I asked them to check if the watch needed service and they said it looked fine from their quick inspection. They also sent me movement pics because I had asked for them.

The problem with Dubai when it comes to vintage is you pretty much have 2 options. AD or this vintage watch store, both of which can be expensive.
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Old 29 September 2017, 05:01 AM   #4
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Ouch, best of luck, maybe a screw fell out! :)
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Old 29 September 2017, 05:07 AM   #5
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Ok, thanks...as long as it's not something dire that has long-term negative implications on the watch, I'm fine with spending money to get it back in shape.
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Old 29 September 2017, 05:47 AM   #6
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I know people are skeptical to open watches in general....and I'm more or less in that camp as well....even more so with vintage mostly.....but every vintage purchase I have my watchmaker measure the watch to see error rates/amplitude in multiple positions and if it's even borderline to service....I always opt to service. It's always a risk to pull hands and to open a vintage piece because you don't know how a dial will react even to atmosphere etc....but it's a matter of time, you're going to have to service the thing sooner or later.....and I think sooner is always better than later. My own 2 cents on servicing.

I'm sure a complete overhaul will get it back in perfect shape again OP.
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Old 29 September 2017, 07:11 AM   #7
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Sounds like a broken main spring to me. At least based on my past experience with a couple that broke on me.

By the way, crown/stems pulling completely out is not common with vintage watches. I've never had that happen in the decades I've owned vintage. Not tightening the screw properly that secures the stem to the movement was the likely culprit.
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Old 29 September 2017, 08:29 AM   #8
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Thank you all.

Springer, what I meant by the crown/stem issue was that when it happened, I came to the forum and found other threads where it had also happened and was quickly fixed, which was reassuring. I will provide an update after checking with the service guys.
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Old 29 September 2017, 09:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizz View Post
Thank you all.

Springer, what I meant by the crown/stem issue was that when it happened, I came to the forum and found other threads where it had also happened and was quickly fixed, which was reassuring. I will provide an update after checking with the service guys.
The stem coming out, although not common, is not unusual since it is one tiny screw that can unscrew a half turn to release it. A broken mainspring is also not unusual and is normally replaced at service time during an RSC service.
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Old 29 September 2017, 09:59 AM   #10
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Detent screw, tiny green arrow near stem.


Never lost one on a 1570 but I did on my 6694 once!
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Old 29 September 2017, 07:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Sounds like a broken main spring to me. At least based on my past experience with a couple that broke on me.

By the way, crown/stems pulling completely out is not common with vintage watches. I've never had that happen in the decades I've owned vintage. Not tightening the screw properly that secures the stem to the movement was the likely culprit.
Good call John. Quite likely.

On the 15xx series though...the detent is weak...the screws are EXTREMELY prone to breakage and most watchmakers are "cautious"...because the last thing you want to have to do is pull the dial and hands on a vintage matte dial sub...after you finish casing it because the detent screw broke off.
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Old 29 September 2017, 07:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tools View Post
The stem coming out, although not common, is not unusual since it is one tiny screw that can unscrew a half turn to release it. A broken mainspring is also not unusual and is normally replaced at service time during an RSC service.
Now I'm told by my AWCI connects that Omega is saying DON'T replace the mainspring unless has issues.

I don't...unless it has issues. I'm about to start for the same reasons Rolex does...

I probably won't on anything pre 1030 if it is running with decent amplitude.
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Old 3 October 2017, 05:46 AM   #13
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Quick update from yesterday when I visited the store.

While showing the watch to the repairman, and demonstrating that winding did not help, the crown and stem came out again. The last time it happened I was given two options, fix or repair (which would mean changing the part and more expensive). I went with the fix, which did not guarantee it wouldn't recur. So I guess this is probably where the issue is most likely. Will need to wait a few more days till I hear back with a proper diagnosis.
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Old 3 October 2017, 08:47 AM   #14
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Hope it comes back to you at the soonest Faizan.
I'm sure it will not be a big deal, and you'll have your watch in no time!
Keep us posted.
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Old 11 October 2017, 12:31 AM   #15
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Thanks Adel.

I just heard back from the watchmaker (they took their time). This is what needs to be done on the watch:

- Full Service
- Replace Balance wheel
- Replace Mainspring
- Replace Setting Lever
- Replace Bridge Screws

I will get a quote tomorrow but 2 things

- From what I can tell none of those point to major problems, just parts wear and tear.
- If I went to a reputable watchmaker overseas (LAWW for e.g.), what would be the approx cost of the above?
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Old 11 October 2017, 06:37 PM   #16
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WHAT? Replace the BALANCE WHEEL?

WHY? It was running fine before and it needs a BALANCE?

That's insanity and EXPENSIVE.
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Old 11 October 2017, 07:31 PM   #17
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It needs to be service
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Old 12 October 2017, 04:53 AM   #18
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The estimated cost is approx USD 1075. I've asked for a breakdown and their recommendation then will decide.
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Old 12 October 2017, 08:29 AM   #19
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Well, you're at their mercy as we all are. 1075 is in line with costs here including a few parts. What about a new tube and crown? Not needed? New crystal? If they do a good job you'll be set for years to come.
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Old 12 October 2017, 10:42 AM   #20
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Sorry to hear that, but its with you for 2 years, and was serviced, ( thats what you said ) before getting it.

There is no way that you need ALL these parts, unless you knocked it hard, sand got in, or, ...........it was not serviced for years.

There is no way, that a 5513, needs service ( cleaning, oiling, etc ) before 5-7 years, with normal use.

I am in Greece, I use it in the sea, in relatively hot weather, sun, sand, etc, and never had such problems.

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Old 13 October 2017, 05:24 AM   #21
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Can I have the old balance wheel :-)
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Old 14 October 2017, 08:14 PM   #22
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I have real doubts about the watch having been serviced by the seller I got it from. Every seller usually writes the standard statement in their advert about "watch has been serviced and runs fine". Well the watch ran fine, but I never had any proof of service. Perhaps all they did was make sure it was working and nothing was broken and the timekeeing was accurate. No way (for me at least) to tell really.

While the watch was in my possession the last couple of years it was very accurate. gaining or losing maybe a 4 seconds or so per day.

Anyway, I just spoke to the watchmaker and the balance wheel has a broken staff and must be replaced. All parts listed above require a replacement. The only recommendation (i.e. it is not required to be replaced but recommended) is the mainspring but what I understand is that it is generally replaced as part of any service and is relatively inexpensive.

On top of this the usual stuff will be included in the full service (removal of parts, disassembly, gasket change, cleaning, lubrication, reassembly, water and pressure testing, crystal polishing). I have also recently sourced a NOS pearl which will also be repaced.

All parts will be sourced directly by Rolex and there will be a 6-month warranty on the watch post service. The entire thing (including ordering of some part) will take approximately 5 weeks. I will give the go ahead and report back once done.
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Old 14 October 2017, 08:44 PM   #23
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Given the circumstances you outline, possibly the best way to go is Rolex service.....at least that way you will know it has been given the proper 'once over' and all will be good. Re the stem coming out, as some have said, this is not uncommon with some of the earlier vintage and can be problematic when you consider all that is retaining it. I have had the same issue a couple of times with my 5513 though my AD was able to sort it out. It has left me very cautious though when setting it etc. Anyway good luck with yours.....great watch!
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Old 14 October 2017, 11:09 PM   #24
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Hey Kenny, I don't trust the local Rolex AD. From my brief experience with them, they are largely incompetent. The AD represents a few high-end brands including Tag Heuer. A few years ago I had a problem with a Monaco I owned (sold now) which had a simple fix and it took them ages to figure it out. This was for a modern watch. I'd hate to see them trying to figure out what to do with a vintage - they would probably recommend changing the hands or something else that shouldn't because it's a little corroded. The guy I've gone to is highly reliable, featured on Rolexpassionmarket and is known in the region for his work with vintage.
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Old 15 October 2017, 05:46 AM   #25
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Well you don't have to replace the balance WHEEL to right the broken staff :-/

If the staff is broken now and it ran fine before...you knocked HOLY CRAP out of that watch somehow.

You can't BREAK a staff in a shock resisting 15xx movement without hammering fence posts with a sledge hammer wearing it. Something happened to that watch. I wouldn't begrudge the seller at all. You wore it 2 years and BROKE it. No offense...but seriously YOU or someone you let handle it...damaged that watch. The only reason to replace bridge screws would be because the heads are boogered and they are unsightly or so badly abused that they aren't really user friendly.

Once again just for explanation sake no offense meant.
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Old 16 October 2017, 03:12 AM   #26
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R.W.T. you obviously know what you are talking about and despite your insistence that no offense is intended, your deducing that I or someone else in my stead was responsible for breaking a watch part, is rather accusatory in tone. This is an open, public forum, so I won't take it seriously, but I will set the record straight.

Bothered by everything you wrote I called the watchmaker back and asked for specifics. The details are as follows - the balance wheel is not broken (as I admit I incorrectly stated initially), the pivot (not staff) is damaged, which is why the recommendation to replace with an original part. You obviously don't know the history behind the watch or how I acquired it. For the record, the original seller misled me about the age of the watch when I first purchased it (this is detailed in my thread here, if you are interested). I had a fall out with him and therefore have no reason to believe that the watch I received from him was indeed serviced. Perhaps the winding I did in an effort to revive the watch when it wouldn't start a couple of weeks ago exacerbated the damaged part. What I do know is that I handled it extremely well, wore it in rotation with other vintage pieces and never did anything to even remotely damage it.

I think I have been very open and transparent here, which is probably a mistake. I do not feel the need to provide any more updates on this anymore. Thanks for all your inputs nonetheless.
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Old 16 October 2017, 04:24 AM   #27
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Wow.
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Old 16 October 2017, 06:33 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizz View Post
R.W.T. you obviously know what you are talking about and despite your insistence that no offense is intended, your deducing that I or someone else in my stead was responsible for breaking a watch part, is rather accusatory in tone. This is an open, public forum, so I won't take it seriously, but I will set the record straight.

Bothered by everything you wrote I called the watchmaker back and asked for specifics. The details are as follows - the balance wheel is not broken (as I admit I incorrectly stated initially), the pivot (not staff) is damaged, which is why the recommendation to replace with an original part. You obviously don't know the history behind the watch or how I acquired it. For the record, the original seller misled me about the age of the watch when I first purchased it (this is detailed in my thread here, if you are interested). I had a fall out with him and therefore have no reason to believe that the watch I received from him was indeed serviced. Perhaps the winding I did in an effort to revive the watch when it wouldn't start a couple of weeks ago exacerbated the damaged part. What I do know is that I handled it extremely well, wore it in rotation with other vintage pieces and never did anything to even remotely damage it.

I think I have been very open and transparent here, which is probably a mistake. I do not feel the need to provide any more updates on this anymore. Thanks for all your inputs nonetheless.
Agree. Not sure why all the all-caps commentary throughout R.W.T's response was necessary. It seemed a little over-the-top.
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Old 16 October 2017, 06:40 PM   #29
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My wife's Rolex had a balance staff break.... it was her late mother's watch and she wore it sparingly (as did her mother) There is no way it got knocked.
I reckon the oils dried up and it wore out as it had not been serviced ever since the 1970s



Quote:
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Well you don't have to replace the balance WHEEL to right the broken staff :-/

If the staff is broken now and it ran fine before...you knocked HOLY CRAP out of that watch somehow.

You can't BREAK a staff in a shock resisting 15xx movement without hammering fence posts with a sledge hammer wearing it. Something happened to that watch. I wouldn't begrudge the seller at all. You wore it 2 years and BROKE it. No offense...but seriously YOU or someone you let handle it...damaged that watch. The only reason to replace bridge screws would be because the heads are boogered and they are unsightly or so badly abused that they aren't really user friendly.

Once again just for explanation sake no offense meant.
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Old 16 October 2017, 06:59 PM   #30
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My wife's Rolex had a balance staff break.... it was her late mother's watch and she wore it sparingly (as did her mother) There is no way it got knocked.
I reckon the oils dried up and it wore out as it had not been serviced ever since the 1970s
Nope...I'll never buy that.

Now admittedly there is other criteria for replacing a staff besides breakage...wear being the main one.

It's not metal on metal. It's in a jeweled bearing. That bearing has a cap jewel that is designed to hold a reservoir of oil for use by the staff for a quite long time and today's oils are pretty long lasting...even if there is some drying or evaporative effect. That staff is tempered steel. It's not gonna wear through...we won't live that long.

People smack things hard...even unknowingly because they are concentrated on other things.

You should sit in the watchmaker's chair and listen...let's take the literary approach.

"I don't know WHAAAT might have happened...it just stopppppped running." she said coaxingly.

"Hmmm....did you notice this HUGE GASH in the plexi glass?" the watchmaker replied with raised eyebrow.

"I don't know HOW that could've gotten there." she retorted abruptly. "I hardly ever wear and it and I'm VERY careful..."

We've heard it all.

The balance in the 15xx movement is darned near bullet proof. No one was walking down the street and it just broke in two. It's in SHOCK jewels...

I don't mean to be contrary but if you work on them and know the mechanical side...a balance staff doesn't just break. That's not how it works.
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