JNOV reneged on a deal.

[Terry Newton]

Jeremy:

I hope you do not leave the friends that you have made on this forum over the fact that you disagree with the way the mods did not stick up for you. I have enjoyed your posts in the time that you have been here. My hope is that you cool down for a couple of days and come back.

The moderators decisions have to stick up for the rules of the forum. This never needed to become personal as it was business.

Please do not leave over business.

Your friend

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Terry Newton

Jeremy:

I hope you do not leave the friends that you have made on this forum over the fact that you disagree with the way the mods did not stick up for you. I have enjoyed your posts in the time that you have been here. My hope is that you cool down for a couple of days and come back.

The moderators decisions have to stick up for the rules of the forum. This never needed to become personal as it was business.

Please do not leave over business.

Your friend

Terry,

Well said, as usual!

[bodybump]

Jerremy ..Terry is right my friend...things happen..i got flaked all the time..but never i had mentioned any names in the forum..one is even a good friend of mine..but i cant do anything about it....I just try to move on maybe getting luck on the next deal..its a lesson learn..but for you to leave us for this simple incident is too petty...we dont want you to leave here...You have been a great member in the forum..I hope you consider another try...-Buddy oscar!!!

[Tools]

The point that so many of you have failed to see when jumping on Jeremy's bandwagon is that nobody condoned what JNOV did.

The issue with the post is that one member insulted another by calling him a name, and doing it in the title of the thread.. We don't allow it on any of the boards.......as Paul said.."read the rules". We have banned plenty of members because they have insulted another member. We may have to come to your defense !

The substance of the post........the FACTS of the post, those are what's important...

Descending to a childish level of name calling and finger pointing is detrimental to the forum in two ways...

First.... it may unfairly malign a member because he was busy, made a mistake, or is unfamiliar with the situation he is found in.

Secondly.... It does say something about the individual who reacts in a knee jerk manner and begins name calling and then attempts a public flogging just because his feelings are hurt..

I guess there are three......It reflects badly on the forum if we allow name calling to be routine.......the forum becomes chaos; we can't approve it on the one hand and disapprove it on another.

[Mosco]

Larry,

It wasn't a bandwagon (like the Lakers ) - we genuinely like Jeremy. He has done nice things for some of us that extend beyond TRF (for instance, gave me reading material while I was in the hospital after the twins, by sending me one of Tempo's 'Daytona - Legend is born' books - absolutely fascinating stuff, btw! - just for the heck of it).

What I felt was wrong is that the initial change in the thread title did not solve anything. The insult was still there and one who would ant to look into it further would still see the OP.

Having said that, the second amendment to the title, IMHO, was a good compromise, I'm saying it once again. Once the whole thing about defending 'rules' vs 'members' was explained, I am sure many of us went - 'ok, I see both sides.'

What we initially DID agree with is that we hate timewasters, people that don't have the common courtesy to communicate, and are simply inconsiderate.

In all fairness, Jeremy - I think you had a knee-jerk reaction when you completely dismissed the compromise and stormed out of here. Let's all cool off, have a cold one and shake hands, please. I really would hate to lose one of the good guys who had a bad day, like we all tend to.

[scottschoe]

JNOV reneged on a deal.
JNOV flaked on a deal.

Both of these mean the same thing, except NOBODY uses the first phrase. This whole thread has left me scratching my head. Bottom line, calling someone a flake isn't an insult. There's really no other term to replace it with. Deal-backer-outer? Crappy buyer? Come on.

[Lol-x]

I never looked at tis thread until now because the thread title with 'flake' didn't make any sense to me.

In my language "FLAKE" is a piece of boneless fish & made from shark.

Im in bed on my phone....more later.

[Bebot]

I hate to see member leave because of unfinish business. But I guess rules are rules and the moderators made their decision and you have all the right to be ofended by their actions and the right leave.

As I always stated, buyers and sellers should not take anything personal, especially if there is no harm done, it is just business. I have to agree about the name calling because it is a public forum and should all be civilized.

[The Second]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I never looked at tis thread until now because the thread title with 'flake' didn't make any sense to me.

In my language "FLAKE" is a piece of boneless fish & made from shark.

Im in bed on my phone....more later.

Who you talking to?

[springer]

Never heard that fish definition of "flake" before Steve. Flake in the USA is slang for strange, weird or an unpredictable/unreliable person. So my take on the buyer being called a flake was not so much name-calling, but a slang term used to describe someone's actions or personality.

To say that he is "not a flake" would indicate he is a straight-up guy which is just the opposite of the thread's intended purpose.

Although I know neither of the gentlemen discussed in this thread, I think Welshman did the right thing re-titling the thread about the buyer "reneging" as opposed to being a flake, as others here on planet earth might not understand the slang meaning of flake.

It's all semantics sometimes.

[Lol-x]

What we have here on many levels is a breach of contract.

1. A breach of contract by JNOV to fulfil his agreement to purchase the watch.

2. A breach of contract by JYOGI to fulfil his agreement to the forum.

In each case the relevant party has renegged on their agreement, however in the first case I have only heard one side of the situation so I am assuming, if I can, that what JYOGI said about JNOV is true.

I have personally had situations as both a seller and a buyer.

Me as the seller

Several years ago, a neighbour approached me out of the blue to buy my house. He wanted to expand and develope his property.

After negotiations we shook hands and agreed on a price. There after I engaged lawyers to draw up the documents and went house hunting for a new house to live in attending inspections and auctions.

2 weeks later I contacted the buyer to give him the contract to sign. He said he had changed his mind and did not wish to proceed.

I told the seller that we had a deal, I had spent money on lawyers and spent time and money looking to buy a new home.

He told me well he was sorry but it was bad luck. Due to statutory provisions I could not sue for my loss.

Me as the buyer

Some time not long ago I said I would buy a Rolex Sports Watch from another forum member.

The next day the AUD$ went south, and it continued to do so over the next 2 weeks. The cost of the watch had gone up by many $100's of dollars.

I told the seller that I did not wish to proceed and offered to compensate him. He was not happy but said he would like to be paid $200. I paid him that $200 straight away, as I realised I had breached our contract and was liable for my breach. Simple as that.

Yes, you may say 'I renegged' on the contract to buy the watch, but I remedied that to the reasonable satisfaction of the seller. The seller accepted the $200.

The Law

Generally in any ordinary contract where one party offers to sell at a price and the other party agrees to buy at that price there is a binding contract. The contract is binding immediately upon the meeting of minds, the seller withdrawing the item from sale to others and reserving it for the buyer pending payment. That is good consideration.

JYogi: your agreement with the forum

When you become a member of the forum you enter into a contract with the forum. You agree to enjoy the benefits and privileges of the forum on the basis that you abide by the rules of the forum. A binding agreement occurs.

The terms of that agreement include:
1. You shall not insult or disparage other members.
2. The moderators shall have the right to amend posts and material as they see fit.
3. The moderators decision shall be final.

JYOGI's Breach of Contract

1. You repeatedly, after being asked to moderate your language refer to another member as a 'spineless flake' breaching rules 1 and 3.

2. You took issue with a moderators right to amend the title of your thread (which complaint was so trivial it was absurd as it did not in fact change the essence of your post in any material way) in breach of rule 3;

3. You repeatedly seek to encourage general condemnation of the moderators decision.

4. You claim your leaving as a result of the moderator only doing what you by joining the forum and agreeing to the rules agreed for him to have the right to do in the first place.

5. You speciously allege that the moderator is effectively dishonest and corrupt by siding with someone because they have paid a donation to be a pledge member (even though you are one yourself). That is a disgraceful allegation to make without any basis whatsoever.

JYogi, you have renegged on your contract with the forum, you are just like those who you claim to be aggrieved by yourself.

JYogi, you appear to have been a victim and because you didn't get satisfaction from the original wrongdoer you make the forum the wrongdoer and your victim.

Well, this has been a complete storm in a teacup and an unacceptable stance by you to the most trivial of circumstances regarding the forum.

You say you have decided to no longer participate on the forum so let me make your proclamation complete in the best possible way for you.

Your 'pledge membership' has been refunded in full+extra for PayPal fees (you might even make a little profit for yourself).

As a result of your conduct you have repudiated your agreement with the forum and your entitlement to participate altogether. You will be banned forthwith.

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by scottschoe

JNOV reneged on a deal.
JNOV flaked on a deal.

Both of these mean the same thing, except NOBODY uses the first phrase. This whole thread has left me scratching my head. Bottom line, calling someone a flake isn't an insult. There's really no other term to replace it with. Deal-backer-outer? Crappy buyer? Come on.

Scott, what was the original title, word for word?

Was it "JNOV flaked on a deal"?

If it wasn't, you're shifting the goalposts by introducing that argument here.

As for the claim that "NOBODY uses the first phrase", I'll leave it at saying that it's an unjustifiable generalisation.

[scottschoe]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Scott, what was the original title, word for word?

Was it "JNOV flaked on a deal"?

If it wasn't, you're shifting the goalposts by introducing that argument here.

As for the claim that "NOBODY uses the first phrase", I'll leave it at saying that it's an unjustifiable generalisation.

Wasn't it something along the lines of JNOV is a flake?

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by scottschoe

Wasn't it something along the lines of JNOV is a flake?

Yes.

[Letsgodiving]

I don't know either party involved here and if someone is banned then so be it but to change their "title" or status to reneger/renegger doesn't seem appropriate to me.

[chenx15]

out of curiousity why is jyogi tagged as "renegged"?

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Letsgodiving

I don't know either party involved here and if someone is banned then so be it but to change their "title" or status to reneger/renegger doesn't seem appropriate to me.

That is irregular, Mike. Lemme look into what's happened here.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by Letsgodiving

I don't know either party involved here and if someone is banned then so be it but to change their "title" or status to reneger/renegger doesn't seem appropriate to me.

Your right it isn't appropriate and I apologise.
It was a transitional stage I was going through in coming to terms with the situation and the matter has now been remedied.

[camhabib]

It's unfortunate the situation had to come to this. I do think the OP had a right to blow off some steam and vent frustrations, but perhaps should have done so in a more tasteful manor (no names, less offensive language, etc). Lesson learned I suppose.

[clew84]

Wow, this got out of hand really fast! The whole thing is kind of ridiculous. We started out with no one losing any money to the forum giving back contributions and losing a good member.

And yes, the moderator did stick up for the non-buyer by changing the post and defending the non-buyer in a separate post - stating JNOV was "not a flake".

It's a shame. And weird.

[Gedanken]

It's called poor judgement. JYogi was in the wrong to have started the flake issue, much less having continued to push it. He may have made some friends here, but ultimately moderation decisions are not based on popularity ratings. More's the pity that he got himself banned over what started out as a non-issue but hey, we can't make anybody do anything. On the best of days, we can do more than hope to make them wish they didn't.

Anyway, there's nothing else to see here.