Vintage Rolex Identification - Ref. 1002(??)

[Dahnnis]

Hello everyone,

Hope you are all doing well!!

I was hoping to call on the experts on the forum to help me get a sense of the history of a watch I have here. I’ve had this watch for about 10 years but have just started to wear it again. And it got me thinking that I would love to identify the ref. number as well as general date range of manufacturing.

From some quick research, it appears to be a ref. 1002. Three hands, no hacking function, smooth bezel. Would you all agree?

I was also trying to get a sense of what form the watch would have taken when it came off the factory. Would the white dial have been original? Or very likely a replacement? This info will help me decide if when the time comes for a service, I want to do everything I can to maintain it rather than replace.

Ok, thank you all in advance. As you’ll see, it looks like someone polished off the serial number over the years, but you can see the faintest hint of “Registered Design” at 12 o’clock between the lugs. Maybe that helps?

Thanks again!!

[crowncollection]

The. Idea should by in the other side of the case unless it’s also polished off. You could Remove the caseback Also will have it inside


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[janice&fred]

Hi and welcome to the world of vintage watches. Your picture isn't all that clear but I would suspect that's a redial.

[Dahnnis]

David - Thanks for the info!! I’m sliiightly hesitant to remove the caseback as I don’t want to do any damage to the movement. Is this a difficult project?

Janice - Thanks for the welcome, very interesting world, here!!! I suspect you may be right, but do you mind letting me know why you think so?

Thank you both!!

[offrdmania]

OP, ball up a big piece of duct tape and use the sticky side as grip on the case back to unscrew it. If there is no corrosion, it should unscrew quite easily. You really cant hurt the movement unless you are blowing dirt and debris into it when you have the case back off.

[Dahnnis]

Thank you, Matt! I may give that a try this evening.

One other thing I am noticing… between the lugs on the 6 o’clock side looks to be a number that starts with 14xxx. Not sure how many digits that follow as there appears to have been some polishing there as well. But does this shed any light?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

OP, ball up a big piece of duct tape and use the sticky side as grip on the case back to unscrew it. If there is no corrosion, it should unscrew quite easily. You really cant hurt the movement unless you are blowing dirt and debris into it when you have the case back off.

Not a bad idea to make the final turns and remove the case-back with the watch dial-up and then take a good look before flipping the watch over. Sometimes there can be loose debris under the flange of the case-back.

[Dahnnis]

Thanks, Dan!!

Do you all think I’m correct that this is a ref. 1002? Anyone have a guess as to the date range?

[alwayshere]

remove the band and look at the engraving in good light. If the serial is legible, the reference number on the other side should also be there.

Check the serial year range - its all over the internet - for a rough gauge of production year.

It does remind me of a 1002

[Dahnnis]

Unfortunately, the engravings aren’t quite legible. Best I could tell, on the 6 o’clock side between the lugs, is a number that starts with 14—.

[Dahnnis]

Quick bump up just for one last question… given that this is very probably a redial already, would you all go through an effort to maintain that dial if I go in for a service, or just let it be replaced with the same style?

Thanks again, everyone!!

[TimeToGo]

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Not only a bad redial but in very poor condition. Look at the chipped paint on the edge between the 3 and 5 o'clock.

I would consider sourcing a dial in the secondary market. Don't know who you were thinking of having the watch serviced, since parts for these are scarce and the likelyhood that they have a spare dial is unlikely.

[Dahnnis]

I was thinking about sending it back to Rolex. As I understand it, they often push for a redial, so if it was an original dial, I may have looked for an independent. Will rolex not be able to source a new dial for this?

Out of curiosity, what makes it a bad redial beyond just the condition? Obviously it has seen better days. Just trying to understand what I should expect. Thanks!!

[TimeToGo]

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I figured you were considering the Rolex route. I would inquire with them to see if they would even service a 1960s watch, as you refer it appears to be 1.4 million series. Also, thus my comment that they may not have a service dial available. This you would have to check out.

I would recommend first having the watch openned to check the ref number on the caseback and movement, as has been recommended above.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Dahnnis

I was thinking about sending it back to Rolex. As I understand it, they often push for a redial, so if it was an original dial, I may have looked for an independent. Will rolex not be able to source a new dial for this?

Rolex will not perform a redial (i.e. refinish the dial), they will recommend replacing the dial entirely with a new authentic dial. The dial they install will be appropriate for the watch, but not period-correct.

[offrdmania]

Rolex' inventory of dials is very limited and they may only have one or two colors to choose from. 99% of the time, the only colors they usually have are silver or gold since these were the dial colors that had the greatest production numbers.
Since it is a gold case, they will most likely only allow the gold dial to be installed.

[Dahnnis]

TimeToGo — Thanks so much for the info!! Dan’s comment really helped clarify. When you mentioned a bad redial, I guess you were referring to a refinished dial. This makes more sense as I thought redial meant just replacing the dial entirely. In that case, yes, you’re right, that probably wasn’t the greatest redial as there is serious flaking. Although who knows how long ago it was done. At least a decade… I’ve had it since then ha!

Thank you, Dan!! Would you say given the condition, it even makes sense to try to maintain that dial with an independent, or just let Rolex replace? I would almost always want to maintain the vintage nature of a watch (or anything else) where possible, but at the end of the day, the watch working correctly has to be priority #1.

Really interested to here what you all think, thanks!!

[Dan S]

Personally I don't think it's worth trying to preserve the dial. In your place, I would probably look for a period-correct dial on the secondary market, but that's a project and it would certainly be easier to let Rolex replace it with a service dial.

[Dahnnis]

Thank you, Dan!!

I’ll look into a period correct dial. I assume this forum is a good place to research what that would even look like? Is there anywhere else you would go that is a repository for old rolex references?

Also, do you happen to know what dial color would have been likely at the date of production? Or are there too many variables to say?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Dahnnis

Thank you, Dan!!

I’ll look into a period correct dial. I assume this forum is a good place to research what that would even look like? Is there anywhere else you would go that is a repository for old rolex references?

Also, do you happen to know what dial color would have been likely at the date of production? Or are there too many variables to say?

If you could confirm the reference number and year of manufacture by checking the inside of the case-back, that would be the best starting point for researching the dial.

[alwayshere]

Scratched plexi crsytals can sometimes make the dial printing look odd / re-dial. Its definitely worth getting a clean shot of the dial before concluding its a re-dial IMO

[TimeToGo]

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It would be interesting to find out if it is a 5500 or 1002. While the 1002 caseback was shared between the models, it would be nice to know. Knowing the model number would at least help you nail down the dial, between an Air King or regular Oyster Perpetual, which by the way -> both would fit.

That also gives you a choice, if it does not matter to you what the proper dial is if the model is indistiguishable. Then look for a dial that includes at a minimum the yellow gold tone markers to match the case or as mentioned a champagne color dial.

OP, you can't pick one number of the model number from the case at all ?! Just curious..

[Dahnnis]

TimeToGo - That’s an interesting point. So, you’re saying that it’s possible this could have been an Air King with a replacement Oyster Perpetual dial? I’ll keep looking in different light conditions, but it is pretty tough to see anything at all. I’m actually thinking now that the 14 I saw on the 6 o’clock side of the case may have been the beginning of a “14k” stamp. Researching ref. 1002s, I came across some images of watches for sale that had that engraving on the 6 o’clock side underneath the model number. The “14..” on my case is in the middle of the space between the lugs rather than over to the left side where you would expect a longer serial number to start.

Do you know of a good place to go looking for dials? Or is eBay the place these days? One of my main hesitations about RSC service is that the watch was a gift to me by a family member, and they said that they looked for a long time for a gold case / white dial. I’d be fine to replace tue dial, but I’d want to maintain the look of at all possible.

Alwayshere- Thanks for the thought. Honestly, I think you’re right. Besides the flaking in the 3-6 area, the dial looks quite nice. All the lettering looks good and matches what I am seeing online. The scratches on the acrylic do make it look a great deal worse.

Thanks again everyone!!

[TimeToGo]

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Since the dial is refinished, it is not clear what it is/was since you do not have a model ref indication.

The indication could have been similar to yours with only Oyster Perpetual, or with the added text of either Air King or even Explorer. Ebay would be the first place to research and get familiar with available dials.

You bring an interesting point about the 14. I do not know what you got going on there.

[janice&fred]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

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Since the dial is refinished, it is not clear what it is/was since you do not have a model ref indication.

The indication could have been similar to yours with only Oyster Perpetual, or with the added text of either Air King or even Explorer. Ebay would be the first place to research and get familiar with available dials.

You bring an interesting point about the 14. I do not know what you got going on there.

I'm sure there is plenty indication if the OP would get the case back removed to check the stamping inside. Also, the movement would certainly show if it's chronometer rated or non like an Airking. There is no point in looking for a dial until the case back is removed, and then the choice will be apparent.

[Dahnnis]

TimeToGo & Janice — thank you both very much for weighing in! My only hesitation is that I’m reading a ton of mixed information about removing the caseback at home (on this forum even..). A lot of folks seem to think this is best to leave to the professionals and required a certain amount of testing afterwards. Do y’all not agree?

Also, looking for dials on eBay and elsewhere, I did have the thought… if I can’t find a replacement rolex dial that would work, and I decide to send back to RSC, will they even offer a service for a watch if they determine the dial has been repainted?

[Dan S]

I don't think that Rolex has a problem with a repainted dial (assuming the dial is repainted). They might require replacement, but I don't think you would mind that contingency.

If you can open the case with a rubber ball or wad of tape, I don't see much harm in it, and you will have a better idea of what you have. You should not be assuming that the watch is currently waterproof in any case. Just don't poke your fingers around inside the movement or drop anything inside.

[Dahnnis]

Ah, that’s a great point. Thank you, Dan! I don’t get this thing anywhere near water as it is. I’ll give this a try and report back what I find. Thank you all again!!

[TuRo]

Cheapish potentially as taking offers - Pre 1964 (swiss only) - 1002 fitment, with an arrow marker, in gold (Singer correct) here.... if any interest sir.

Your dial is a repaint and might not be original Rolex dial plate....so a warning if it isn't, Rolex won't service it and will charge you to have dropped the dial out. I'd personally get a secondhand dial and whip it along with the watch to an independent watchmaker who could switch dial over and give it the once over for a smallish fee.

There are also a few later 'batton' service dials from £200 - search eBay using 'Rolex 1002 Dial' and then filter 'Cheapest first' ✓

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204264951...mis&media=COPY

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Cheapish potentially as taking offers - Pre 1964 (swiss only) - 1002 fitment, with an arrow marker, in gold (Singer correct) here.... if any interest sir.

Your dial is a repaint and might not be original Rolex dial plate....so a warning if it isn't, Rolex won't service it and will charge you to have dropped the dial out. I'd personally get a secondhand dial and whip it along with the watch to an independent watchmaker who could switch dial over and give it the once over for a smallish fee.

There are also a few later 'batton' service dials from £200 - search eBay using 'Rolex 1002 Dial' and then filter 'Cheapest first' ✓

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204264951...mis&media=COPY

Hi Dennis - I can't respond to your DM for some reason - I personally don't have a dial but this one on eBay looks ok and there are others if you follow instruction how to search for one.
Rgds Paul