Need advice - buyer claims watch received fake

[77T]

Originally Posted by ZOOK

Dear Mr Gray Marketeer,



Don't you folks have your own forum to discuss customer service issues?



Coming here among those of us waiting on lists or paying premium prices seems like the wolf turning to the sheep after he has been fleeced.



I don't condone the buyers actions. I just think there is somewhere better for you to request advice than from us amateurs here.

I might not have phrased it quite like this post, but there is a bit of truth within it. The forum does have a rule against bringing issues/disputes from other places into TRF...

Not saying anyone is wrong or right - just my 2¢


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[roach7]

Originally Posted by 77T

I might not have phrased it quite like this post, but there is a bit of truth within it. The forum does have a rule against bringing issues/disputes from other places into TRF...

Not saying anyone is wrong or right - just my 2¢


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It is not my intention to bring negativity to this wonderful community. I came here seeking advice which I thank all that have contributed. I know what I need to do now so I will update only if there's any new developments.

Thank you all!

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[77T]

Originally Posted by roach7

It is not my intention to bring negativity to this wonderful community. I came here seeking advice which I thank all that have contributed. I know what I need to do now so I will update only if there's any new developments.

Thank you all!

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I think you conducted yourself very well - wasn’t chiding you at all. There were some things to learn here.

Some people get into side arguments that can escalate beyond the core issue and that’s what the mods like to avoid.

Good luck on the quest for justice

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

And he chose a Tudor over Rolex?

Probably because he already had the fake watch and had to buy the same model to make the switch.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Cryten

Probably because he already had the fake watch and had to buy the same model to make the switch.

Brought to him tied to the feet of an African Swallow with coconut husk.

If he was going to intentionally scam, why wouldn't he use a $20 fauxlex and go for the big bucks?

[imperio]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Brought to him tied to the feet of an African Swallow with coconut husk.

If he was going to intentionally scam, why wouldn't he use a $20 fauxlex and go for the big bucks?

Perhaps he thought a seller might just write it off with a $2-3,000 watch. Maybe not so with a $300,000 Richard Mille.

[cwieb]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Brought to him tied to the feet of an African Swallow with coconut husk.

If he was going to intentionally scam, why wouldn't he use a $20 fauxlex and go for the big bucks?

I respect your insight throughout this thread. However, I must inform you that scammers have upped the ante in terms of their execution. I say this because I do a great amount of high dollar sales and encounter these problems often. The scammer put a rather convincing replica in place of the original for a reason instead of a $20 folex. The scammer would assume that the seller would look at the watch and say, "wow this was a really good fake that I sent him- I should take this up with my supplier as I was fooled myself". The scammer picked this seller because there was the same watch being sold to him that he possessed a replica for with stock images on ebay. This is the perfect recipe for his scam. Please do not assume a seller with 3000+ feedback tried to pass off a replica tudor. From the sounds of it you do not believe the seller. Scammers are sweet talkers and try to sound as convincing as possible. There is a great amount of manipulative behavior in those messages. He is setting the scene for his ebay claim to appear the victim in this scenario. He purchased a lug pin tool to remove the original and replace it with his replica without showing any suspect damage to the watch.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by cwieb

I respect your insight throughout this thread. However, I must inform you that scammers have upped the ante in terms of their execution. I say this because I do a great amount of high dollar sales and encounter these problems often. The scammer put a rather convincing replica in place of the original for a reason instead of a $20 folex. The scammer would assume that the seller would look at the watch and say, "wow this was a really good fake that I sent him- I should take this up with my supplier as I was fooled myself". The scammer picked this seller because there was the same watch being sold to him that he possessed a replica for with stock images on ebay. This is the perfect recipe for his scam. Please do not assume a seller with 3000+ feedback tried to pass off a replica tudor. From the sounds of it you do not believe the seller. Scammers are sweet talkers and try to sound as convincing as possible. There is a great amount of manipulative behavior in those messages. He is setting the scene for his ebay claim to appear the victim in this scenario. He purchased a lug pin tool to remove the original and replace it with his replica without showing any suspect damage to the watch.

You assume facts not in evidence. None of what you say is evidenced in this thread. It's all speculation, which doesn't win an argument one way or the other.

I get that folks want to defend the seller based on his past history, but this deal is the only one relevant to this discussion, and this particular deal is indefensible.

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Brought to him tied to the feet of an African Swallow with coconut husk.

If he was going to intentionally scam, why wouldn't he use a $20 fauxlex and go for the big bucks?

It was two swallows with the watch on a string between them.....possibly a length of creeper

I understand your angle (throughout the discussion). I often play devil's advocate too, and you are right, the seller hasn't any evidence to back up his claim, but I still don't doubt him.

The buyer clearly knows about this thread and is probably an avid reader of every post. This looks like a crime of opportunity to me. The fake watch was probably the seed that turned into a full blown scam with the aid of FleaBay and PayPal. I have also been scammed with the assistance of these two companies, but thankfully for a far smaller amount. My scammer was a hairdresser, I have her home address, found her work place and more about her than she'd like me to know, but I let it go. It wasn't much, she probably needs it more than me, but having been there before I fully understand that the OP is going through.

This will be ruled in the buyers favour, and the OP's only recourse will be to flag the watch as stolen. Unfortunately his lack of clear evidence is going to bite where it hurts.

[Rocket_Man]

When I look at the pics of the returned watch I do think I see some marks on the back of two lugs which look like a clumsy strap swap. Is that the original Tudor strap? I searched for a replica of this exact watch and while someone does make this exact head, they don't sell it on that strap.

My suggestion to Henry is that on all future posts, even if you use mostly stock pictures, you need to add a pic of the back of the watch showing the serial number and if possible, don't blur out the final digit. This way a future scammer will not be able to pass of a replica and will pass you by and look for another listing. Even posting a picture with most of the serials blurred out would tell the scammer that he will have a harder time with his claim since pictures exist.

You need to file those police reports and report the watch stolen. If this guy is selling it on and the new owner takes it for service it will be tagged as stolen and if they in turn file a police report, it will have yours to match and an easier time for the cops. But I would not expect the police to investigate this. The dollar value is too low for them. I was the victim of identity theft and they only got away with about $2,500. The police took a report but did not investigate it.

Tell the buyer that you reported the watch stolen. He shouldn't care since his position is he never got the watch, but this prevents him from selling it and getting warranty service on it. Little consolation, but you can at least make his life a little more difficult.

Post his information on TRF in the appropriate feedback forum and any future sellers who search his name will see the feedback and hopefully he doesn't scam anyone else.

Call your insurance company, maybe this is covered under that policy, or if you bought these on a credit card, the credit card company may cover the loss. Probably a stretch though.

[amg55]

Originally Posted by ZOOK

Dear Mr Gray Marketeer,



Don't you folks have your own forum to discuss customer service issues?



Coming here among those of us waiting on lists or paying premium prices seems like the wolf turning to the sheep after he has been fleeced.



I don't condone the buyers actions. I just think there is somewhere better for you to request advice than from us amateurs here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sweetswisssteel]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Nope. That's a myth.
They issue an official letter stating its counterfeit, and do you want it back or scrapped.
I have such a letter if OP needs as evidence.

OP. Demand via Paypal to see all buyers evidence. .
Ps it takes about two weeks for Rolex to respond?
A

Doesn't take 2 weeks - Rolex in Melbourne are quick. Email them and ask about their process for verifying a watch. Good luck

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[roach7]

After 4 weeks and 2 failed appeals, PayPal reversed their decision and credited me back the funds!

Thanks to everyone's advice and I've learned a great deal from this ordeal.

[function12]

Originally Posted by roach7

After 4 weeks and 2 failed appeals, PayPal reversed their decision and credited me back the funds!

Thanks to everyone's advice and I've learned a great deal from this ordeal.

Wow, that was a great outcome for you!!!

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by roach7

After 4 weeks and 2 failed appeals, PayPal reversed their decision and credited me back the funds!

Thanks to everyone's advice and I've learned a great deal from this ordeal.

[Cryten]

That's great to hear a positive outcome

[bdex75]

Holy crap!! Good for you. I thought that was money down the tubes. Great ending.


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[Tony64]

Terrific news, but any insight as to what swayed PayPal to decide in your favor?

I've never doubted your innocence, but the facts weren't exactly on your side.

Very happy for you, but in disbelief over the resolution considering Paypal's reputation.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Terrific news, but any insight as to what swayed PayPal to decide in your favor?

I've never doubted your innocence, but the facts weren't exactly on your side.

Very happy for you, but in disbelief over the resolution considering Paypal's reputation.

Yesterday was my 3rd attempt calling PP after the 2 failed appeals. The agent said to give her 5min to review the case and she came back and simply said the previous decisions were incorrect and she will personally see to it that I get my money back. She did not disclose what the exact details were and I didn't want to push. I'm just glad I got my money back...

[tamiya]

Wow, great news.

[squisito]

Great to see that, I'm 3 for 3 in paypal cases all decided in my favor.

But beware, these cases come down to 1 thing and 1 thing only, how much volume do you put through and are they willing to take a loss to keep your business. The claim history on the account is also key, usually these guys when run into them it's not their first attempt so that plays in your favor.

If the buyer just turned sour and he is thorough enough to send you back an empty box just for the tracking number then it's his case.

[77T]

Congrats. Perhaps the buyer couldn’t respond with additional evidence when PP dug into the case.

My last dispute ended well when the other party failed to respond within PP’s timeframe.


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[roach7]

Originally Posted by 77T

Congrats. Perhaps the buyer couldn’t respond with additional evidence when PP dug into the case.

My last dispute ended well when the other party failed to respond within PP’s timeframe.


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PayPal already decided with the buyer on Oct-30 and he got his money back then... I don't believe there's anything he did or didn't do to swing PayPal's decision.

Unless he's pulling this on another seller and they now see a pattern?

[teqp]

Glad to hear you got your money back.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by roach7

PayPal already decided with the buyer on Oct-30 and he got his money back then... I don't believe there's anything he did or didn't do to swing PayPal's decision.

Unless he's pulling this on another seller and they now see a pattern?

So PayPal gave the buyer back his money and then paid you themselves?

It's like when crook steals your credit card and makes a purchase, he keeps the goods and you're not responsible for the charge?

Confused

[Ballaratboy]

Congrats, a good outcome for you Henry.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by Tony64

So PayPal gave the buyer back his money and then paid you themselves?

It's like when crook steals your credit card and makes a purchase, he keeps the goods and you're not responsible for the charge?

Confused

They said they made the wrong decision so yes they're taking money from their own pockets to reimburse me...

[afnios1]

great news Henry,so happy that you got your money back!

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by roach7

They said they made the wrong decision so yes they're taking money from their own pockets to reimburse me...

At least it worked out for you.

Just seems wrong that the other guy gets a free watch out of the deal.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by Tony64

At least it worked out for you, that's what's important.

Just seems wrong that the other guy should get a free watch out of the deal.

But now Rolex has a record on that serial # as stolen so it might still backfire on him one day.