Sub self-winding mechanism is failing

[miket-nyc]

I bought my Sub 16800 in June, 2019, from Bob's Watches in California. I've been wearing it every day, and was pleased with it until recently. But in the past month or so the self-winding mechanism stopped working right, and I have to hand wind it a dozen turns every day or so or it will eventually stop. At first I thought it was because I wasn't moving enough, but it recently happened on a day when I'd walked miles with the watch on my wrist, so there's definitely something going on.

Bob's Watches claims all its watches are serviced before sale, and this one is still faultless in timekeeping. I was expecting it to need a cleaning every 5 years or so, but now the self-winding mechanism has failed, less than 2 1/2 years after Bob's Watches supposedly serviced it.

So now I'm wondering what to do. Should I complain to Bob's about this and expect them to do something about it? (They have a one-year guarantee, which is long past). Alternatively, should I bring it to a Rolex service center or dealer, or an independent watchmaker? I'm afraid Rolex would want to do (and charge for) a complete CLA, but the movement is fine and accurate to a few seconds a week, so it doesn't really need it. It just won't self-wind reliably.

This is also making me wonder whether I should trust a 40-year-old watch as my daily wearer. I bought a 16800 because that was the first modern, high-beat moment but I also liked the smaller size and the case with holes. I was hoping to keep using it for the rest of my life. But if a major mechanism can fail after just 2 1/2 years, I'm afraid things are just going to keep breaking and I'll never be able to rely on it.

I live in NYC where there are Rolex watchmakers everywhere. If an independent watchmaker is my best bet and there's anyone here you'd recommend (particularly in Manhattan), I'd appreciate referrals.

Mike Taglieri

[rmwill]

Send it to the RSC and you will get a very nice leather case and a 2 year warranty card. Unless you know the watchmaker personally or have references from enthusiasts, I would not use someone local. I just got my 16600 Sea-Dweller back from the NYC RSC after it stopped hand winding, and I am thrilled with it. You have the luxury to walk it in to the RSC and save shipping.

[inadeje]

90% it’s the autowind pendulum bearing has failed. Remedy? New pendulum, since the bearings are unserviceable.

Rolex service will identify and replace the perished pendulum at no extra cost or, spend as much or more just sourcing a pendulum. I’d go for the RSC service.

[OrangeSport]

Pop it into your RSC for a fix/service

It'll come back like new with a 2 year warranty..

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by inadeje

90% it’s the autowind pendulum bearing has failed. Remedy? New pendulum, since the bearings are unserviceable.

Rolex service will identify and replace the perished pendulum at no extra cost or, spend as much or more just sourcing a pendulum. I’d go for the RSC service.

Sound advice right here.

[brandrea]

RSC, they’re right in your neighborhood

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by miket-nyc

I bought my Sub 16800 in June, 2019, from Bob's Watches in California. I've been wearing it every day, and was pleased with it until recently. But in the past month or so the self-winding mechanism stopped working right, and I have to hand wind it a dozen turns every day or so or it will eventually stop. At first I thought it was because I wasn't moving enough, but it recently happened on a day when I'd walked miles with the watch on my wrist, so there's definitely something going on.

Bob's Watches claims all its watches are serviced before sale, and this one is still faultless in timekeeping. I was expecting it to need a cleaning every 5 years or so, but now the self-winding mechanism has failed, less than 2 1/2 years after Bob's Watches supposedly serviced it.

So now I'm wondering what to do. Should I complain to Bob's about this and expect them to do something about it? (They have a one-year guarantee, which is long past). Alternatively, should I bring it to a Rolex service center or dealer, or an independent watchmaker? I'm afraid Rolex would want to do (and charge for) a complete CLA, but the movement is fine and accurate to a few seconds a week, so it doesn't really need it. It just won't self-wind reliably.

This is also making me wonder whether I should trust a 40-year-old watch as my daily wearer. I bought a 16800 because that was the first modern, high-beat moment but I also liked the smaller size and the case with holes. I was hoping to keep using it for the rest of my life. But if a major mechanism can fail after just 2 1/2 years, I'm afraid things are just going to keep breaking and I'll never be able to rely on it.

I live in NYC where there are Rolex watchmakers everywhere. If an independent watchmaker is my best bet and there's anyone here you'd recommend (particularly in Manhattan), I'd appreciate referrals.

Mike Taglieri

IMHO Bob's has no responsibility. It is a used (vintage) watch and it was bought June of 2019 and its a day away from being 2022.
If it was your business how would you feel about people coming 2 years after warranty and expecting you "to do something about it". smh

Send it to a Rolex Service Center.

[Dirt]

Your best option is to simply send it into your local Rolex Service Centre and have the movement serviced. Case polishing is always optional
After that it should be good for at least 5 years

[hutch300]

You need a full service and you can use RSC or send it to LA Watch Works or someone similar.

[Solo118]

RSC has an 8-10 week turn around time. For something vintage, I would say go ahead with somebody who is trusted on this forum such as rollieworks or LA WW, I would not trust the local 47th street guys with anything vintage.

[chro.nic]

Just to offer a different perspective here. The "major mechanism" didn't fail after 2 1/2 years, it failed after 40 years!!

Get it fixed at RSC and it will be good for another 40!!!!!

.nic

[Oxfordian]

Use the RSC, enjoy the benefits of a useful warranty, some Rolex goodies and knowledge that you watch has been checked, verified as genuine and then given a full wash and brush up by the service team. Once complete and returned it will be ready to join you on many years of adventures.

[AzHadEnuf]

If you had bought a 40 year old, freshly serviced BMW, with a 1 year warranty and it broke 2 and a half years later would you go back to the dealer? If it’s any consolation I had my 1990 Sub serviced by a very respected independent in ‘15. 3 years later winding mechanism failed. Oh well. I don’t know anyone in NYC for service if you don’t want RSC, but I’d highly recommend Phillip Ridley in Chandler AZ for service.

[214270Explorer]

Due my own bad personal experience withe Bob's, I would never again do any business with them whatsoever.
You are beyond their warranty anyway, and besides that, the winding failure may have had nothing to do with them or their service.
But I don't like them or their attitude.

Take your watch elsewhere to RSC or to a certified Rolex technician and get it repaired by an expert. Your watch deserves it.

[Tools]

Why are you only winding a "dozen" winds? 40 full winds will give it full power for around 50 hours.

If the auto-wind has failed, a dozen winds will only power it for around 16 hours and so it certainly could be either the reverser wheels (purple wheels) are sticking, or a knock has broken the rotor bearing, or the bearing itself has failed, or possibly it has simply come disconnected.

Not sure what complaining to Bob's would be good for, they do not put all new parts into it when they service it, nor do a lot of other shops, and it has gone twice their guaranty period.

You could find a shop who will repair the auto-wind module, or you could seek out a quality watchmaker to complete a full service.

[miket-nyc]

The reason I'm only winding the watch 12-15 turns is that I don't think the self-winding mechanism has totally failed. It's just circling the drain at this point. Thanks for an the suggestions. I'll be heading to the RSC next week.

Mike Taglieri

[miket-nyc]

I went to the Rolex Service Center today, with my 16800 Submariner that no longer self-winds. At first, the woman at the counter was hesitant to let the technician look at it because I was wearing it on a NATO strap rather than a bracelet, and their policy is not to repair "incomplete" watches. I explained that I own the bracelet that came with the watch, but I prefer a nylon strap, and the bracelet that came with the watch isn't an original 1983 bracelet anyway. The technician finally agreed that this is a "vintage" Rolex, so it can be serviced despite having a non-authentic strap.

But the estimate seems very high: $1,276 for a complete overhaul. The technician said the lower automatic bridge is damaged, so the pendulum is rubbing which is why it stopped self-winding. They also want to install a new crown (because the gasket is worn), and a new bezel insert (because there's a crack in the luminous dot on it).

It would be great to get the watch running perfectly again, but I'm not sure I see a need to replace parts just because of cosmetic defects. If the crown's gasket is worn, can't they just replace the gasket? Also, I was able to see the crack in the dot on the bezel when I got the watch home, but it requires high magnification, and I'm fine with it the way it is. (And the dot actually has better lume than the hands. I'm glad I didn't mention this, or they might have wanted to replace the hands, too).

Do people here agree with Rolex's demand that any part even slightly imperfect has to be repIaced with a new part, or should I try to find an independent watchmaker who would do a more modest (and I hope less expensive) repair? To me, little flaws in the appearance of the watch are part of the history I've had with it. Also, if an independent watchmaker is a good option, can anyone recommend one in the NYC area?

Mike Taglieri

[GradyPhilpott]

It is my understanding that the crown tube and the gaskets are part of a regular full-service. For a watch that old, I'd say that it's mandatory to get those replaced, as they are essential to the integrity of the watch.

You don't have to have Rolex do all the work they recommend, especially if the bezel insert and pip suit you just fine. A lot of people have an affinity for old, well-used bezel inserts.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

OP, there’s a difference between the estimate being very high and being more than you want to pay. It’s Rolex service with a Rolex warranty. Does the warranty have value to you? If not then find a guy to do a more “modest” i.e. cheaper repair. If you are looking to be able to trust your forty year old wearer then let the RSC do their thing.

[Glidelock]

Hi Mike, Welcome to the Forums. 1st off, who cares what the receptionist says about the NATO strap, as any informed employee would explain that up until some point around 1980 you could in fact buy a NATO to go on your Submariner directly from the Rolex Service Center. As well, there is no requirement to send a bracelet of any sort by RSC to have the watch serviced. So, by that standard you could have simply said ok, asked for the watch back and taken the 1/2 second or so to remove the NATO…then say Problem Solved. Point being is this was always an easy obstacle.

Now, my guess is they are going to make you replace the Crown, as that is part of their requirement to replace the gasket and maintain water resistance. As far as the cracked PIP / Bezel Insert, that’s just what they are recommending because they want to send you a watch that looks new. My guess is they also want to polish the case (and bracelet if you had included it as well). Those items are aesthetics and some want that so Rolex is more than happy to recommend (for a fee of course). However, many…if not most Vintage owners these days do not want anything polished at all. In fact…if you had say…like a Flat 4 1660LV Sub for example, you would be wise to remove the bezel before giving to them at all, and let them charge you for the replacement, as there has been posts of people refusing the new bezel insert only to get it back and find there Flat 4 was swapped by RSC anyway. In those cases you will never get it back!

[Rori]

Originally Posted by miket-nyc

I went to the Rolex Service Center today, with my 16800 Submariner that no longer self-winds. At first, the woman at the counter was hesitant to let the technician look at it because I was wearing it on a NATO strap rather than a bracelet, and their policy is not to repair "incomplete" watches. I explained that I own the bracelet that came with the watch, but I prefer a nylon strap, and the bracelet that came with the watch isn't an original 1983 bracelet anyway. The technician finally agreed that this is a "vintage" Rolex, so it can be serviced despite having a non-authentic strap.

But the estimate seems very high: $1,276 for a complete overhaul. The technician said the lower automatic bridge is damaged, so the pendulum is rubbing which is why it stopped self-winding. They also want to install a new crown (because the gasket is worn), and a new bezel insert (because there's a crack in the luminous dot on it).

It would be great to get the watch running perfectly again, but I'm not sure I see a need to replace parts just because of cosmetic defects. If the crown's gasket is worn, can't they just replace the gasket? Also, I was able to see the crack in the dot on the bezel when I got the watch home, but it requires high magnification, and I'm fine with it the way it is. (And the dot actually has better lume than the hands. I'm glad I didn't mention this, or they might have wanted to replace the hands, too).

Do people here agree with Rolex's demand that any part even slightly imperfect has to be repIaced with a new part, or should I try to find an independent watchmaker who would do a more modest (and I hope less expensive) repair? To me, little flaws in the appearance of the watch are part of the history I've had with it. Also, if an independent watchmaker is a good option, can anyone recommend one in the NYC area?

Mike Taglieri

I would not hesitate to do the service at your local RSC, I doubt your Watch has ever been serviced the right way “by Rolex” otherwise you would have had proof of it.
What I won’t allow an RSC to do is to replace any parts for cosmetic reasons such as dial, bezel, hands… this is because if done it would kill the value of your vintage watch. Besides that, anything else can be replaced no problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by miket-nyc

I went to the Rolex Service Center today, with my 16800 Submariner that no longer self-winds. At first, the woman at the counter was hesitant to let the technician look at it because I was wearing it on a NATO strap rather than a bracelet, and their policy is not to repair "incomplete" watches. I explained that I own the bracelet that came with the watch, but I prefer a nylon strap, and the bracelet that came with the watch isn't an original 1983 bracelet anyway. The technician finally agreed that this is a "vintage" Rolex, so it can be serviced despite having a non-authentic strap.

But the estimate seems very high: $1,276 for a complete overhaul. The technician said the lower automatic bridge is damaged, so the pendulum is rubbing which is why it stopped self-winding. They also want to install a new crown (because the gasket is worn), and a new bezel insert (because there's a crack in the luminous dot on it).

It would be great to get the watch running perfectly again, but I'm not sure I see a need to replace parts just because of cosmetic defects. If the crown's gasket is worn, can't they just replace the gasket? Also, I was able to see the crack in the dot on the bezel when I got the watch home, but it requires high magnification, and I'm fine with it the way it is. (And the dot actually has better lume than the hands. I'm glad I didn't mention this, or they might have wanted to replace the hands, too).

Do people here agree with Rolex's demand that any part even slightly imperfect has to be repIaced with a new part, or should I try to find an independent watchmaker who would do a more modest (and I hope less expensive) repair? To me, little flaws in the appearance of the watch are part of the history I've had with it. Also, if an independent watchmaker is a good option, can anyone recommend one in the NYC area?

Mike Taglieri

Thanks for the update Mike

Crown tube and gaskets are going to be routine for a watch of that vintage and I would regard it as necessary given there's no documented service history.
As mentioned, it's possible that it's never seen the inside of a Rolex w/shop anyway.
The Lume pip on the bezel has probably been replaced previously if it's going stronger than the rest of the lume so as far as originality is concerned the horse has probably bolted, though I fully acknowledge the sentimintality aspect.

So it seems Rolex were trying it on a fair bit with that business around the NATO. Personally, I would've presented the watch head without it in the first instance.

It's looking like your best bet will be a reputable independent.
You have some great options available to you in the US

[JSolution]

Sounds like a reasonable service price to me.

[LA_LEC]

Originally Posted by JSolution

Sounds like a reasonable service price to me.

I agree especially considering the age of the watch. Then there is the 2 year warranty from ROLEX. That has gotta be worth something if only for the piece of mind.

Don't allow the polishing keep the "wrinkles" since they just show history.

[padi56]

Best get it serviced by RSC after it will be good as new with a two year warranty.

[Harry-57]

The service estimate sounds fine. If you are nervous about how they will cosmetically treat the watch you will be better off going to a reputable independent.

[Oxfordian]

Why buy a Rolex if you don’t want Rolex to look after it?

Take the watch to RSC, get back a serviced watch, fully repaired and with warranty, the watch probably won’t need looking at again for a decade so that’s just over $2 a week, not a big price to pay.

[jdp12199]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

Why buy a Rolex if you don’t want Rolex to look after it?

Take the watch to RSC, get back a serviced watch, fully repaired and with warranty, the watch probably won’t need looking at again for a decade so that’s just over $2 a week, not a big price to pay.

Aren't there many threads of Rolex polishing watches and replacing original parts when owners specifically do not want them to. Is that a good enough reason to not use the RSC? Sounds like sending a watch into the RSC is a bit of a gamble. I don't think I'd ever send my watch to them if they can't guarantee that my watch will not be polished and original parts won't be replaced unless I wanted them to. Would you?

[Mystro]

This is a easy fix…. You send it to the forum recommended Rikki at Timecare. He does my watches and is the best.

http://www.timecareinc.com/

[miket-nyc]

A friend of mine, now in Philadelphia, used to work selling watches at Tourneau in NYC. He suggested that I get an estimate from Tourneau (which also offers a two-year guarantee). It can't hurt, and I can always bring it to RSC afterwards.