HELP! Speedy advice on 16710 GMT Master II Purchase required!

[matches]

Hello!

After some feedback on a Rolex GMT Master II from some great people here, I'm now looking to purchase one from a shop I will be visiting in Cologne, Germany tomorrow (I know, not much time to advise - my bad!)

Here's a link to the watch: https://www.colognewatch.de/rolex-gm...6710-8940.html

A couple of questions on this:
1) Has anyone used this seller before (Cologne Watch Centre)? They seem reputable from online searches, and I've seen one person recommend them on the forum here, but does anyone else have any direct/immediate feedback on them?
2) Any thoughts on the watch itself? Condition etc.
3) What should I watch out for when I go to check the watch in person myself before I decide if its good to buy!?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice!

M.

[sensui]

Don't know the seller....nothing jumps out at me looking at this watch. Condition seems good and clean. I'd take a closer look at the lugs when you see it in person and make serial is clearly legible on the case with bracelet off....short of taking off caseback to verify movement...not much more you can look at.

[breitlings]

I'd want more pictures...

[jcatt]

Is the bracelet clasp correct? It looks twice as long as mine, but mine is a later model. I had an older EXPII that had the same clasp as the one in your link, so just wondering if it's a clasp or bracelet from a different model SS sport rolex.
JCATT

[Andad]

Yes, that clasp is interesting on a 2001 GMT?

[Highjinx]

It's a stick dial. Who really cares though.

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[Thuilln]

It looks like a sub's clasp...

[exador]

Originally Posted by jcatt

Is the bracelet clasp correct? It looks twice as long as mine, but mine is a later model. I had an older EXPII that had the same clasp as the one in your link, so just wondering if it's a clasp or bracelet from a different model SS sport rolex.
JCATT

It’s a 93150 bracelet with extension clasp which was an option on the 16710.

[SeaDweller50]

I’d never pay that much personally, I mean I’d expect at least 2 RSC services to have been carried out, and have the documentation to prove it. And it’s not the original clasp / bracelet.

[mtgjr]

The condition appears to be good, but for that kind of money I'd definitely want SELs.

[askdanny]

First negotiate: It is too expensive for a watch with no box or papers. Then ask if they can ship the watch so you don’t pay sales taxes, which are fairly in Germany. Also ask for service history and movement warranty. They might have a watch maker on staff. Does he/she have a picture they took of the movement or did they personally inspect that it is a Rolex movement? Return policy if the watch doesn’t keep COSC time.


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[Thathorologist]

That bezel, is it only me or is it too Maroon?

[jbarolex]

Stick Dial in 2001 ??
I would not expect stick dial before 2005 ?

[matches]

Originally Posted by mtgjr

The condition appears to be good, but for that kind of money I'd definitely want SELs.

I thought, based on the year, this is an SEL? 2001

[matches]

Originally Posted by askdanny

First negotiate: It is too expensive for a watch with no box or papers. Then ask if they can ship the watch so you don’t pay sales taxes, which are fairly in Germany. Also ask for service history and movement warranty. They might have a watch maker on staff. Does he/she have a picture they took of the movement or did they personally inspect that it is a Rolex movement? Return policy if the watch doesn’t keep COSC time.


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Thanks, I've checked with the dealer and it does come with box and papers. See original link I posted above and scroll a bit further down. Its confirmed on the webpage too.

Good shout on service history ans returns. Will ask in store later...

[matches]

Originally Posted by jbarolex

Stick Dial in 2001 ??
I would not expect stick dial before 2005 ?

This also threw me a little...

[matches]

Also, interestingly found this:

"Is the presence of “sticks” instead of “Romans” on the dial a guarantee of the watch having a caliber 3186 inside? Unfortunately, no. The way Rolex does things just doesn’t make it easy for collectors. Examples of the stick dial GMT Master IIs have been reported as far back as the Y series of production – roughly five years ago, and well before the 3186 went into production. Since there are examples of both stick and Roman dials from the Y series, I believe that to be the production series in which Rolex began phasing in the stick dial GMTs. It would appear that the only reliable way to confirm the presence of a caliber 3186 in a 16710 is to open the case and visually inspect the movement. Early reports suggest the 16710B began toward the end of the Z production, and continue through the end of the M production serial."

[matches]

So, I'm at the shop now. I raised the issue of the picture on the website being a stick model. The assistant checked and instantly apologised saying that the wrong photos have been uploaded. He went to collect the watch and show me this in person and I took the bracelet off to check the serial number and model and references.

The watch comes with the original Rolex stamped papers and box and seems to correspond with the serial number printed on the watch itself.

The watch also comes with the original receipt papers and it shows that it was purchased from a reputable shop in Munich.

I've taken some photos in person which can be found here:
Any thoughts? Does this look legit?

https://postimg.org/gallery/20zyiuvdy/

[mtgjr]

Originally Posted by matches

I thought, based on the year, this is an SEL? 2001

The watch in the pictures has a 93150 (Sub) bracelet, which only came with folded end links (non-SEL). The folded links are clearly visible in the pic.

By the way, why is this thread now in the WatchOut!!! section? Did I miss something?

[matches]

Some more pictures: https://postimg.org/gallery/1acqtkg9y/

[matches]

Originally Posted by mtgjr

The watch in the pictures has a 93150 (Sub) bracelet, which only came with folded end links (non-SEL). The folded links are clearly visible in the pic.

By the way, why is this thread now in the WatchOut!!! section? Did I miss something?

To clarify: The pictures in the website link are wrong and show an incorrect watch which is not the one being sold. This was clarified by the shop assistant when I visited just now. The link I just posted on the true pictures of the watch

[jbarolex]

I would be so much easier , if these dealers used correct pictures....

[mtgjr]

Did they pressure test it after opening up the case back?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by matches

Some more pictures: https://postimg.org/gallery/1acqtkg9y/

Useless photos

[matches]

Is the quality too low? Can upload higher quality ones if so. Thanks

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by matches

Is the quality too low? Can upload higher quality ones if so. Thanks

Not just the quality but the size and what they show.

Movement photos need to show the balance wheel.
Case photos should show numbers.inscription between lugs
Bracelet should show clasp and end links
Dial should be straight on and clear

Adam

[matches]

Ok, apologies for the poor quality of the previous uploads. I thought that they worked fine, but it appears I selected quality for a message board and not the type which is required to provide feedback.

I've uploaded various shots from the shop setting out the views and issues Gladiator mentioned. Everything seems to be in order based on the receipt, papers and original shop of purchase. I also must admit, the service and nature of the shop was one which seemed very professional, established and courteous. Grateful for any thoughts you guys might have on this and thank for all your help and guidance so far.

https://unsee.cc/04eafa08/

Many thanks,

[GLADIATOR]

Watch is GENUINE

[matches]

Thank you! Is there any way to tell if all parts are original? E.g. Bracelet, bezel etc. I thought I read on here rumours of people/dealers swapping things in and out with non original parts.

[jcatt]

If you have so many questions about this watch that give you pause, then perhaps it's best to walk away and find one you can feel certain about.
JCATT