Hate the 5167... love the 5164.. is this normal !?

[V25V]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I’ve had opportunities to buy 5164a at 32-34 a few times in the past 6 Months. Lookup watchrecon too. They are listed at 35-37 and NIB is around 38. They don’t sell at those prices.

Again this is US market and maybe I got lucky and missed an opportunity to buy




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How do you know what they actually sell for? And as insignificant of a premium as 36-37K is over retail, it's still a premium, which completely argues against your premise on this from your first post. So for me, your credibility is shot. Not that you were ever correct in the first place anyhow....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Bearxj86]

I will re-iterate what I mentioned earlier and I'm not going to respond further because I don't want to get into a forum war. Insulting other's credibility is not my M.O. either. Being right is also less important since watches end up being a subjective endeavor.

1) I prefer 5167 for reasons outlined above
2) The market tends to agree since the 5167 trades at a significant premium at over $5k+ over MSRP, the 5164 trades at or around retail pre-owned with a much smaller premium in the US market. Whether you see it relative $ or %, the difference is significant.
3) I personally have been offered the 5164 at or around retail and I do know most of the trusted sellers on TRF so I do have a sense what they sell for.

[GB-man]

Its no different than comparing the nautilus line. 5712/5726/5990 also don’t enjoy the same % markup as the 5711 because they are more readily available due to already starting at a higher price point. A great deal of people want a nautilus or aquanaut and they want one for the lowest price of entry.

I don’t see any recent clean examples of a 5164 under 36k. The one sold by Ryan at 33500 had visible damage to the bezel and was from 2013. The one for 30500 was watch only. In my experience not many sellers are negotiating on SS Pateks right now because they don’t have to. I venture to guess David got damn near every penny of his asking on the NIB example as he didn’t have it for long.

[L.W.C]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I will re-iterate what I mentioned earlier and I'm not going to respond further because I don't want to get into a forum war. Insulting other's credibility is not my M.O. either. Being right is also less important since watches end up being a subjective endeavor.

1) I prefer 5167 for reasons outlined above
2) The market tends to agree since the 5167 trades at a significant premium at over $5k+ over MSRP, the 5164 trades at or around retail pre-owned with a much smaller premium in the US market. Whether you see it relative $ or %, the difference is significant.
3) I personally have been offered the 5164 at or around retail and I do know most of the trusted sellers on TRF so I do have a sense what they sell for.

Not sure abt the U.S market but here in the U.K. it’s not available anywhere I’ve been looking for one intensively over the last 2 weeks with no luck so far.. and FYI currently the premium here is more than £5,000 / $6,500.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Its no different than comparing the nautilus line. 5712/5726/5990 also don’t enjoy the same % markup as the 5711 because they are more readily available due to already starting at a higher price point. A great deal of people want a nautilus or aquanaut and they want one for the lowest price of entry.

exactly and none are easy to get. Its splitting hairs and i really hope the % premium a model has isnt a factor in deciding what hard to get watch you prefer vs another hard to get watch. I suspect it is though.

Cost to buy as a factor, sure that makes sense as the retail price spreads are huge on some of these pieces

[Bearxj86]

Holy crap. Maybe I need to go pick one up if the U.K is the trend setter here.

Is there VAT in the U.K causing there to be a premium over a premium?

Originally Posted by L.W.C

Not sure abt the U.S market but here in the U.K. it’s not available anywhere I’ve been looking for one intensively over the last 2 weeks with no luck so far.. and FYI currently the premium here is more than £5,000 / $6,500.

[Bearxj86]

The premium does matter to me and perhaps for quite a few people. While I do buy watches I love, when you have an opportunity to buy something at retail - knowing you are protected if and when you decide to sell it reduces the risk of ownership significantly.

Said another way, these watches are all pretty beautiful and it is indeed like splitting hairs. However, knowing your money is "safer" because you are in the money a bit more helps with the decision making.

Same thing with Rolex, if you are offered a ceramic SS daytona versus a two tone sub. Yes even if you prefer the sub a bit more most people would go with the SS Daytona because its a safer choice. That is unless you are so price sensitive that it doesn't matter.

If you were offered the new Pepsi versus the Batman - same thing. One is a safer option and they are both gorgeous watches you can't really go wrong. While I would normally prefer a Batman, the fact that the Pepsi is a zero risk choice (at least for the timing being) plays into my decision making.

Originally Posted by tyler1980

exactly and none are easy to get. Its splitting hairs and i really hope the % premium a model has isnt a factor in deciding what hard to get watch you prefer vs another hard to get watch. I suspect it is though.

Cost to buy as a factor, sure that makes sense as the retail price spreads are huge on some of these pieces

[DressWatchJones]

Originally Posted by V25V

Take it easy, killer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Haha don't worry I was only trolling, as he seemed a little too protective of his baby

[Codik]

Originally Posted by L.W.C

Not sure abt the U.S market but here in the U.K. it’s not available anywhere I’ve been looking for one intensively over the last 2 weeks with no luck so far.. and FYI currently the premium here is more than £5,000 / $6,500.

That’s the Patek salon... Try asking other U.K. ADs (and I don’t mean Watches of Switzerland). I was told back in August by my AD that the wait list was a few months (in the U.K.).

[Codik]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Holy crap. Maybe I need to go pick one up if the U.K is the trend setter here.

Is there VAT in the U.K causing there to be a premium over a premium?

The £ tanked after the Brexit referendum, making Britain cheap. Factor in the VAT rebate, and the cheapest watches in the world can be found in the U.K.

Add to that the fact this is from the Patek Salon, which always has a wait list.

Anyway, I put an order in for the 5164 two months ago (in the U.K.) and am told to expect delivery early 2019.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

The premium does matter to me and perhaps for quite a few people. While I do buy watches I love, when you have an opportunity to buy something at retail - knowing you are protected if and when you decide to sell it reduces the risk of ownership significantly.

Said another way, these watches are all pretty beautiful and it is indeed like splitting hairs. However, knowing your money is "safer" because you are in the money a bit more helps with the decision making.

Same thing with Rolex, if you are offered a ceramic SS daytona versus a two tone sub. Yes even if you prefer the sub a bit more most people would go with the SS Daytona because its a safer choice. That is unless you are so price sensitive that it doesn't matter.

If you were offered the new Pepsi versus the Batman - same thing. One is a safer option and they are both gorgeous watches you can't really go wrong. While I would normally prefer a Batman, the fact that the Pepsi is a zero risk choice (at least for the timing being) plays into my decision making.

Now you are back pedaling on your whole argument, which has been called out by several here to this point. You said they sell for MSRP or below, which is incorrect. Unless you want to try and claim you know what David/Trahn/etc actually sell them for or use a damaged/incomplete example like you did above.

And no. If I preferred the Batman over the Pepsi, I would buy the Batman. I wouldn't buy one I wanted less strictly because it had a higher resale value. This is play money we are talking about here, not investments. Would I want my watches to lose value? No, rather not. But if they simply hold or stay close, I am good with that. And if they lose some, I am not going to lose sleep over it.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by V25V

And no. If I preferred the Batman over the Pepsi, I would buy the Batman. I wouldn't buy one I wanted less strictly because it had a higher resale value. This is play money we are talking about here, not investments. Would I want my watches to lose value? No, rather not. But if they simply hold or stay close, I am good with that. And if they lose some, I am not going to lose sleep over it.

I agree... i buy the watches i want to wear the most. Either way its a lot of money to spend on a second choice. In addition you are not losing money on either. So now its about making money, not losing it.

[L.W.C]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Holy crap. Maybe I need to go pick one up if the U.K is the trend setter here.

Is there VAT in the U.K causing there to be a premium over a premium?

Apparently even in the U.S you guys have a premium ...

https://davidsw.com/product/patek-ph...travel-time-3/

[Mick8moses]

To the OP yes I too am in the 64 over 67 camp. I love the symmetry of the dial and the useful complication.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Holy crap. Maybe I need to go pick one up if the U.K is the trend setter here.

Is there VAT in the U.K causing there to be a premium over a premium?

retail prices for Patek in the UK including tax is less than US retail including sales tax... in USD.

getting a VAT refund and its even less.

I would argue demand is higher due to the price as there are lots of people in the UK (london in particular) who's base currency isnt the pound.

[V25V]

Anyone who wants a 5164a, hurry and hit up David. I'm sure he will take a 5k haircut on his ask price to sell at msrp.

FS: NIB Patek PHILIPPE 5164/A STAINLESS STEEL AQUANAUT TRAVEL TIME
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...6&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[AK797]

Originally Posted by V25V

Anyone who wants a 5164a, hurry and hit up David. I'm sure he will take a 5k haircut on his ask price to sell at msrp.

FS: NIB Patek PHILIPPE 5164/A STAINLESS STEEL AQUANAUT TRAVEL TIME
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...6&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Same price here as on his website, and after all the promoting we do on here for him, why I oughta...

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by V25V

Anyone who wants a 5164a, hurry and hit up David. I'm sure he will take a 5k haircut on his ask price to sell at msrp.

FS: NIB Patek PHILIPPE 5164/A STAINLESS STEEL AQUANAUT TRAVEL TIME
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...6&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

note, since in came up in a previous thread... cut strap

selling over retail

not an issue

[TeddyS]

When or if I add a PP I will be going for the 5164A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lord91]

I feel the opposite between these 2 models, love the 5167 while the 5164 does nothing for me. Nice watch, just not my taste.

[L.W.C]

An update to this thread:

I’ve called all 41 AD’s all around the U.K with no luck!

[L.W.C]

And apparently it weighs below 100g that must feel light!! my 5712 weighs 116g (without the spare links) and 124g with!

[L.W.C]

Tempting but no way paying a penny over £26,050!!

[jay_kay]

Having started my watch journey with Panerai base models the 5167 was the natural Patek for me. Loved it in pics then when I finally got one on my wrist I was smitten. Tried on a 5164 but just found the date subsidiary dial at the bottom, not for me. I much prefer the regular type of date aperture. The jumping hour hand would be a very nice feature to have if the teamed that with the dial of the 5167 and moved the date to the 6 O'clock position then it would be completely different.

[Tan]

I dunno, I think the 5167 is more aesthetically pleasing

[superdog]

this thread is making me wish I pulled the trigger when first started talking to my AD about it.

I am seeing used versions going over 42. And can't find anything new under 45.

and this is in only a few months. wow.

I wasn't upset about what I paid for it, until reading this thread......




hhahahhaahha. just kidding. still not upset. I am wearing the watch now. and living for today.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by watchfan0529

The dial on the 5167 is too broad for 40mm, it feels a bit empty and too plain. The 5164 solved that problem with the local/home indicators and the date subdial. The hour pushers also make the 5164 much more balanced. IMHO the 5164 is the best daily watch out there..

Apologies for being late to this thread...

I am no fan of the 5164 as I don't appreciate the travel time complication - the involved math is just too simple to be delegated to a mechanical brain on my wrist. While I see that the pushers make the case more symmetric I prefer the Nautilus if I want wings on both case sides.

I agree that the dial on the 5167 feels large - if I am not mistaken it is bigger than on the 5711. Having a small wrist I would most likely hunt for the 38mm 5165 if I wanted to get an Aquanaut...

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by AK797

Stop going on about female bodybuilders. You're from Scotland where all the women look like your Dad.

[dillyo1233]

Walked in - AD had both 5164A and 5167R. Walked out with 64 based on dial symmetry and Patek being known for complications and what’s more useful than a travel time.

[s.m.b.]

Originally Posted by dillyo1233

Walked in - AD had both 5164A and 5167R. Walked out with 64 based on dial symmetry and Patek being known for complications and what’s more useful than a travel time.

Kindergarten, where they teach you simple arithmetic... sorta.