Sotheby's auction today at HK... 5711 and 5990

[Patek_collector]

5711 sold at $137K and 5990 sold at $155K...

definitely either people lost their mind... basically now, i need to pay more for a 5990 than a 5270P!!!

OR... manufactures are buying those lots to drive this craziness further.

not sure what you think... but it i not fun at all!

[fuigo]

A wooden FPJ box was sold at 200k pre-premium. Box only.


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[bonsai-man]

$137K for single sealed blue 5711 with the new hacking movement seems reasonable to me.

[HMHM]

Money needs cleaning you know....

[Humble michael]

Ha! No manufacturers are buying inventory- no sure where that rumor comes from. :-))

[S``]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Money needs cleaning you know....

During last auction in June/July 2020, many claimed the same thing...

But whoila, apparently those buyers are smarter than the doomsday seekers

[HMHM]

Hahaha. Of course they are multiple reasons why it happened. But it’s hard to understand why people are paying so much more than market rate for the same watch. The last auction even had people paying 3x for a poorly maintained 16710 if I remember correctly. I would like to think people with that kind of money have more brain than cents or else they wouldn’t have accumulated those cents in the first place. A lot of rich people I know are such a**hole negotiators that it’s rare to even get a dime out from them. What’s the reason to do this in such a public manner?

[brucethemanlee]

Originally Posted by HMHM

A lot of rich people I know are such a**hole negotiators that it’s rare to even get a dime out from them. What’s the reason to do this in such a public manner?

At auctions? Ego.

My d**k is bigger than yours and i just outbid you.

No you didn't my d**k is bigger than yours I just bid more than you

[S``]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Hahaha. Of course they are multiple reasons why it happened. But it’s hard to understand why people are paying so much more than market rate for the same watch. The last auction even had people paying 3x for a poorly maintained 16710 if I remember correctly. I would like to think people with that kind of money have more brain than cents or else they wouldn’t have accumulated those cents in the first place. A lot of rich people I know are such a**hole negotiators that it’s rare to even get a dime out from them. What’s the reason to do this in such a public manner?

It is probably driven partially by the fact that most of these watches are passion and hype driven at the same time. The FOMO is very real...

There is a very real quote that is going around and is quite succinct in this environment.

"Just remember the market can stay retarded longer than you can remain solvent"

[77T]

More money free for haute horology.
Prices can rise unimpeded to unprecedented multiples over MSRP.

Changing times with surprising results.


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[brandrea]

If I had only listened to Kilyung those years ago

[azizu]

Originally Posted by Patek_collector

basically now, i need to pay more for a 5990 than a 5270P!!!

i like to think that that is about to change in the coming few months/years,
i can almost see it happening otherwise why would patek price the new 5326 at $130k?

[kocero]

I think this situtation will continue for years. Forecasts for luxury consumption is very high and many people, who just know couple Nautilus models, are becoming more aware of other models. In my opinion, sadly, we will see much more higher bids…


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[GreenLantern]

Then Patek needs to make more watches.

I understand providing less than demand to maintain brand appeal, but not 10x less than demand.

At this point, I'd argue they're leaving too much money on the table. They can easily sell 50% more and still remain exclusive enough.

The grey market is a good gauge for how much the manufacturers are leaving on the table (in terms of sellable units).

[7sins]

Maybe I am missing something, but if these auctions are fetching such high prices (more so than C24), why aren't grey dealers putting more types of these watches to auction opposed to listing on C24?

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by 7sins

Maybe I am missing something, but if these auctions are fetching such high prices, why aren't dealers putting these watches to auction opposed to listing on C24?

Because these aren't, in my opinion, representative of the actual market.

These are one-offs of brand new, still in-production pieces, so basically ego and "too much disposable money" comes into play.

Just takes two crazy guys to drive prices up insanely at an auction.

If there were 20 5990/1A's at the same auction, this phenomenon wouldn't happen.

Auctions only make sense for vintage pieces, in my opinion, and even then two guys can still mess it up.

[mic6]

The seller gets in hand almost 30% off what you see as sold price.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by mic6

The seller gets in hand almost 30% off what you see as sold price.

This!

[Master_Grogu]

I wish I was an auction house. The premium these guys make is phenomenal.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by 7sins

Maybe I am missing something, but if these auctions are fetching such high prices (more so than C24), why aren't grey dealers putting more types of these watches to auction opposed to listing on C24?

Because the auction house take is 31-40% of the total sales price including buyer's premium. If a 5711 sells for $120K, all in, the seller gets $82,800, max.

[offrdmania]

cryptocurrency profits need to be washed

[christianj]

5711 just sold at Phillips for CHF 110,000

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by christianj

5711 just sold at Phillips for CHF 110,000

I thought lot 7 hammered for CHF138,600.

https://www.phillips.com/detail/pate...ppe/CH080121/7

[fullofboats]

26% buyers premium on top of 110k chf bid

[benzng]

wow, speechless on how the 5711 got to this price

[christianj]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

26% buyers premium on top of 110k chf bid

Yes, 110 plus fees

[RoscoPico]

I think auctions are generally not where bargains are hand, though it seems counterintuitive. I used to browse/bid a lot and never felt the price points ended up good.
Perhaps if one does enough of it deals can be found on lots that "slipped through the cracks" but I personally have given up.
And those winning bids are disgusting.

[christianj]

Auction prices right now are crazy on everything including furniture, collectibles and art. I think it’s just due to supply and demand and people not wanting to wait.

[Ichiran]

Interested to see the price of 15202, 5712, 3700, 3712, 2499s and those FP Journes. The 2523, 5711/1P and Resonance did well.

[7sins]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Because the auction house take is 31-40% of the total sales price including buyer's premium. If a 5711 sells for $120K, all in, the seller gets $82,800, max.

It was my understanding, at least in the art world, for high in demand pieces, auction houses waive the fee to the seller so they can bring in more buyers with more sought after pieces listed but then charge 30% fee to the buyer. Is that not true for watches?

I need to start an auction house if all pieces are a 30% fee on both the buyer and seller side, that is wild.