Bathroom Remodel

[breitlings]

With all of the previous threads on bathroom remodeling I have decided that I may try to get my feet wet, figuratively but hopefully not literally.

Regarding the house: it's a 1980s ranch, not the nicest house, not the worst but a house near the beach it's worth maybe 190-250k. My goal is to update the Master Bathroom which is a 3/4 with new flooring, new vanity, new toilet and a new shower.

If it's ok I was going to run down my plan as researched here and ask for advice on that plan:

1) Take out 34"x34" fiberglass shower replace with marble tile up to 6' height (I am worried there may be some leaking from the drain in current shower as the floor near the shower is warped and the wall opposite the shower has some water stains -- slightly nervous about this step but I think we may need to do it)
a) shut off water, rip out shower, and dry wall if any
b) add waterproof plastic sheets directly to studs
c) add 1/2" cement board to studs
d) add basin, caulk(?) the basin to cement board
e) tape and seal the joints between cement board, basin, and drywall
f) dry run tiles, lay out 90 degree lines in chalk
g) cut tiles with wet saw
h) fully butter backs of tiles arange directly on cement board with spacers
i) seal tiles
j) grout
k) seal grout

Should I change the plumbing? -- I was going to leave it as is.


2) New Flooring: Going from Laminate to White Stone Marble 12" x 12" (purchased)
a) take out any problematic or poor subfloor and replace
b) add an additional layer of subfloor 1/2" plywood (should this be thicker)
c) add 1/4" cement backer board (purchased)
d) take out baseboard heat (which is now auxiliary to the heat-pump), use wiring for thin radient underfloor heat mat laid on top of cement backer take out t-stat use timer switch
e) dry run with tiles lay out key patterns with chalk
f) cut tiles with wet saw
g) lay tiles with spacers
h) seal tiles
i) grout
j) seal grout

3) rip out vanity, replace vanity plumb vanity and caulk sides of vanity -- do I need to do a side splash or is backsplash enough? -- seems easy

4) toilet, take out toilet replace toilet -- seems easy

I was not going to hire subcontractors, but if you guys think I should I will consider it. Thankfully I do have my fiancees father to help and he is a site supervisor as I understand it (and has some free time due to sub-freezing temps), he doesn't tile but supervises it and I do believe he has done the toilet, vanity etc in the past, I don't know about showers although I know he oversaw the renovation of a hospital and hotel where they renovated the showers and bathrooms. He walked me through what we needed to do and I have confidence it would be done to a degree where nothing would break but perhaps not look as perfect as if we had high end tile and marble people do the tiling but I'd rather not spend ~$7 per square foot for marble installation.

Thanks in advanced!

[Houstongator]

Wow. I am exhausted from reading all that. I need another beer.

Very impressive project. I wish you the best of luck.

[Abdullah71601]

Why are you adding plastic sheets to the studs? If you’re installing backerboard and tiling, you are creating a waterproof barrier. What does the plastic do for you?

[dmac001]

I think you need to put black tar-paper between studs and concrete board. How are you going to do the shower-pan?

[Runnin' Rebel]

After the cement board you should use Redgard up to 2 meters vertical for extra water proofing and skip the plastic.

And really try to use frameless glass doors as it makes a huge difference, although a little pricey my wife was right on this.





^^ extra room for soap and shampoo.


^^ guest bathroom ^^

I redid the plumbing since it was a tear out anyways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1st amg]

There are a few things I am not sure about, would you be able to take some pics of the current set up? You asked if you should replace plumbing? I think you should. When you start ripping and tearing, things start to move and bend, sometimes they will break old seals and deteriorated pipes give away. Better be safe the fist time around. Imagine everything is back together and then you spring a leak.

[Brenngun]

First if there is any way to increase the size of the shower I would strongly suggest you do it. I'd also agree with replacing the plumbing while you have the walls open. If your adding heating to the floor do yourself a favor and check this product out from Schluter. This stuff rocks. I used it in our bathroom reno and love it. Watch the videos near the bottom of this web page. They also have other sealing systems.

https://www.schluter.ca/schluter-ca/...T/p/DITRA_HEAT

Good luck and don't forget to post progress pics as you go.

[BBL]

breitlings... how exciting to have an updated bathroom.
I'm redesigning the shower/tub half of the bathroom, (since I am restoring house after hurricane damage in other parts of house) as well as other changes. It will be a big project for my $$ bucket.

My contractor, 30 years experience, patiently provides me the 'construction 101' guidance. Hopefully in a couple months it will be complete.
I'm currently selecting tile for floor, shower, counter quartz, sinks, hardware, tub, lights, paint... so I understand all the details.
Enjoyed reading your list of to do's! Your future father in law sounds like one heck of a good guy!. Good luck... DM

[austinp]

Best of luck in your bathroom remodel.

While it isn't rocket science, there are some important steps that are in most cases better left to a pro. I would hire a plumber to install the shower pan, set a new drain and rough in new plumbing. He will run a leak test. Water proofing is extremely important and usually not done correctly or thorough enough especially by homeowners. Hire a tile contractor to slope the shower floor, hang the durarock and waterproof the joints.

Schluter has a great system of products for showers prep and it's also a good gauge of whether the tile contractor is any good if he is familiar with it.

All the demo, setting tile and cabinets etc are great DIY projects.

Is the bathroom on a second floor or an above grade house?

All the best
Austin


Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[Blansky]

In my opinion any renovation requiring plumbing or electrical should be left to a pro. Obviously electrical but plumbing done by amateurs could end up having your work torn out and redone.

If I was gutting and redoing a bathroom, I’d do the demolition myself down to the studs, then let the pros go from there. From watching HGTV shows the costs seem to be in the 5000 to 10000 dollar range depending on the fixtures like tub shower and toilet features.

[teqp]

X’s 2 on the Redgard waterproofing on backerboard and frameless showe doors. I did this with my downstairs bathroom. The glass on the shower doors is heavy...good thing you have help.

[Sperry]

Should I change the plumbing? -- I was going to leave it as is.

I did not yet digest the punch list but one item stands out.

If the bathroom is over a crawl space, as long as the shower faucet is on an inside wall - it should be - , then you can always fish new water lines to the fixture if need arises. Drain lines will always be accessible. Otherwise, decide as you go along.

A USA beach house in a sub-freezing location can mean a lot of things. But if there is copper in the walls, the solder joints are 30-some years old. Maybe a little on the brittle side. Maybe not.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Brenngun

First if there is any way to increase the size of the shower I would strongly suggest you do it. I'd also agree with replacing the plumbing while you have the walls open. If your adding heating to the floor do yourself a favor and check this product out from Schluter. This stuff rocks. I used it in our bathroom reno and love it. Watch the videos near the bottom of this web page. They also have other sealing systems.

https://www.schluter.ca/schluter-ca/...T/p/DITRA_HEAT

Good luck and don't forget to post progress pics as you go.

Ditra heat is great and provides an isolation membrane as well for your flooring. I installed it in my MB a year or two ago.

OP: I did this same thing last year although it was a more substantial project involving expanding the footprint and adding a shower separate from the bath that was already in there. And yes, my father in law was my go to for help

My advice is tear everything down to the studs and then assess how to proceed. You’re going to find all kinds of crap that needs fixing but that’s the whole point right?

Post all this information and pictures on the John bridge tiling forum. They are like TRF for tiling projects and you’ll get plenty of expert advice. For plumbing advice try terry Love forums.

[sahcivan]

I'm knee deep (not literally) into doing my bathroom at the moment. With 1 toilet and shower/bath in the house it's a logistical minefield

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by WilliamVue

Plumbing with the professional help is safe and ensures guarantee. Bathroom plumbing must be left to pro as it is very risky for a homeowner to try it on their own. Visit plumbing repairs Hunterdon county NJ for more knowledge!

Now I see why you’ve been randomly replying to threads w no content at all: to get your thread count up so you could leave a link to your business.
Unbelievable.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

There are a few things I am not sure about, would you be able to take some pics of the current set up? You asked if you should replace plumbing? I think you should. When you start ripping and tearing, things start to move and bend, sometimes they will break old seals and deteriorated pipes give away. Better be safe the fist time around. Imagine everything is back together and then you spring a leak.

OP, this is good advice.

If you’re going to the trouble do it right and replace the plumbing. We just gutted our entire home before moving and replacing the existing wiring and plumbing was automatic. Ours is an 80s ranch bungalow as well.

Almost 40 years old, you’ll want the peace of mind that the plumbing in your bathroom was replaced and up to code.

[JasoninDenver]

x1000 for using the Schluter Ditra instead on concrete board and plastic. It is a great product.

I also agree with advice on ripping everything out before planning the next step. On one of my projects, I had to take everything down to the studs and joists.

Use floor warming mats for a toasty winter floor. Wives and cats love them!

[JasoninDenver]

Also, make sure you have enough deflection figured into for the tile on the floor. marble requires a very stiff subfloor and may need some joist work or up to a 1 1/8 subfloor, if I recall correctly.

Go ahead and replace all plumbing supply lines and drains while you ahve everything opened up.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Why are you adding plastic sheets to the studs? If you’re installing backerboard and tiling, you are creating a waterproof barrier. What does the plastic do for you?

Honestly A, I'm not sure, part of why I posted here. That advice did seem to come up more than a few times in my research.

Originally Posted by Houstongator

Wow. I am exhausted from reading all that. I need another beer.

Very impressive project. I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks, Part of the challenge is the budget I really don't want to be too much into this house because at some point it makes more sense to just buy another house, and honestly that is my mind at some point. Trying to keep it under 3k is somewhat hard given the todo list.

Originally Posted by dmac001

I think you need to put black tar-paper between studs and concrete board. How are you going to do the shower-pan?

That is my understanding (assuming tar-paper and plastic sheeting serve same purpose. I was going to use a pre made either plastic/fiberglass, or enameled iron pan. Although I love the look of tiled floor I think that may blow the budget.

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel

After the cement board you should use Redgard up to 2 meters vertical for extra water proofing and skip the plastic.

And really try to use frameless glass doors as it makes a huge difference, although a little pricey my wife was right on this.

^^ extra room for soap and shampoo.

I redid the plumbing since it was a tear out anyways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Beautiful showers RR, love the marble. I think considering the budget, the guest bathroom is likely the look we are shooting for. I will consider the frameless door, but at this point I was almost considering just using the shower rod and putting the door off until summer since I'd like to spread the cost out a bit but perhaps it makes more sense to do it all at once.

Originally Posted by 1st amg

There are a few things I am not sure about, would you be able to take some pics of the current set up? You asked if you should replace plumbing? I think you should. When you start ripping and tearing, things start to move and bend, sometimes they will break old seals and deteriorated pipes give away. Better be safe the fist time around. Imagine everything is back together and then you spring a leak.

I can take some pictures, but AMG be warned the current setup is very basic and perhaps ugly.

I think the pipes may have been replaced it looks like it was originally done with the shitty plastic pipes that burst and later replaced to all of the faucets, I'm not sure but the shower may have new plumbing, perhaps it doesn't. I think your advice is sound, maybe I'll try to find a plumber who can execute on the cheap.

Originally Posted by Brenngun

First if there is any way to increase the size of the shower I would strongly suggest you do it. I'd also agree with replacing the plumbing while you have the walls open. If your adding heating to the floor do yourself a favor and check this product out from Schluter. This stuff rocks. I used it in our bathroom reno and love it. Watch the videos near the bottom of this web page. They also have other sealing systems.

https://www.schluter.ca/schluter-ca/...T/p/DITRA_HEAT


Good luck and don't forget to post progress pics as you go.

I would love to make the shower bigger and there is a closet that abuts to the back of the shower with maybe 12 more inches (it is a stupid closet I have no idea why they didn't make the shower bigger and forego the closet) I am not sure if there is a load bearing wall in-between but I doubt it. I don't know how to take down walls though (beyond drywall). I'll research it, LMK if there is any advice you have on it. I am slightly concerned that the drain and the plumbing may have to be moved a bit if I change the dimensions, but I think it would make a big difference too. Again, I would really rather just buy a new house and I think I might later, there is a lot of work to do on the house as a whole, new windows, new carpets, new cabinets (and I would want a different counter top although it is not in disrepair). It is a tough choice as the house is pretty much paid off but I don't anticipate there being any upside in-terms of long term growth of the area.

Originally Posted by BBL

breitlings... how exciting to have an updated bathroom.
I'm redesigning the shower/tub half of the bathroom, (since I am restoring house after hurricane damage in other parts of house) as well as other changes. It will be a big project for my $$ bucket.

My contractor, 30 years experience, patiently provides me the 'construction 101' guidance. Hopefully in a couple months it will be complete.
I'm currently selecting tile for floor, shower, counter quartz, sinks, hardware, tub, lights, paint... so I understand all the details.
Enjoyed reading your list of to do's! Your future father in law sounds like one heck of a good guy!. Good luck... DM

Thanks BBL. Please share some pictures of your new bathroom once it is done, I'm sure it will turn out great. I am also a bit worried about the duration and am aiming for a few weeks but I know this could easily turn into a few months.

I got an engineered top vanity its one of the things I question, I needed the footboard for the vanity and overall it was a good price but there is such a difference in quality it seems that doing it again I would have gone with a quartz or marble counter top. If I had a bigger budget I would likely tile the walls up to perhaps window level but I think we will repaint and maybe put in a new light/fan/bluetooth speaker.

Originally Posted by austinp

Best of luck in your bathroom remodel.

While it isn't rocket science, there are some important steps that are in most cases better left to a pro. I would hire a plumber to install the shower pan, set a new drain and rough in new plumbing. He will run a leak test. Water proofing is extremely important and usually not done correctly or thorough enough especially by homeowners. Hire a tile contractor to slope the shower floor, hang the durarock and waterproof the joints.

Schluter has a great system of products for showers prep and it's also a good gauge of whether the tile contractor is any good if he is familiar with it.

All the demo, setting tile and cabinets etc are great DIY projects.

Is the bathroom on a second floor or an above grade house?

All the best
Austin


Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Great advice Austin. Well received. I think you might be right. Any rough idea on cost of those items? The bathroom is on the ground level of a ranch, maybe 2 or 3 feet off of the dirt.

Originally Posted by Blansky

In my opinion any renovation requiring plumbing or electrical should be left to a pro. Obviously electrical but plumbing done by amateurs could end up having your work torn out and redone.

If I was gutting and redoing a bathroom, I’d do the demolition myself down to the studs, then let the pros go from there. From watching HGTV shows the costs seem to be in the 5000 to 10000 dollar range depending on the fixtures like tub shower and toilet features.

Understood. So far the marble toilet vanity has cost about 1100, I imagine another 750-1000 in material cost for the shower. I'd like to keep installation under 1k, but IDK if it is possible, hopefully.

Originally Posted by teqp

X’s 2 on the Redgard waterproofing on backerboard and frameless showe doors. I did this with my downstairs bathroom. The glass on the shower doors is heavy...good thing you have help.

Seems like most of the advice pertains to the shower. It seems like the most difficult part of the project. Will certainly go with Redgard. still deciding on frameless shower door, maybe I'll do that in June or so.

Originally Posted by Sperry

I did not yet digest the punch list but one item stands out.

If the bathroom is over a crawl space, as long as the shower faucet is on an inside wall - it should be - , then you can always fish new water lines to the fixture if need arises. Drain lines will always be accessible. Otherwise, decide as you go along.

A USA beach house in a sub-freezing location can mean a lot of things. But if there is copper in the walls, the solder joints are 30-some years old. Maybe a little on the brittle side. Maybe not.

Sperry thanks for your suggestion the shower is on an inside wall over a crawl space. This is in Delmarva, so it's not NYC cold but it's also not Florida or South Carolina hot. I do think the plumbing may have been changed out but if it hasn't I'll change it as I think it had PTSB pipes (?).

Originally Posted by GB-man

Ditra heat is great and provides an isolation membrane as well for your flooring. I installed it in my MB a year or two ago.

OP: I did this same thing last year although it was a more substantial project involving expanding the footprint and adding a shower separate from the bath that was already in there. And yes, my father in law was my go to for help

My advice is tear everything down to the studs and then assess how to proceed. You’re going to find all kinds of crap that needs fixing but that’s the whole point right?

Post all this information and pictures on the John bridge tiling forum. They are like TRF for tiling projects and you’ll get plenty of expert advice. For plumbing advice try terry Love forums.

Good advice GB, I will certainly run down those forums. If you have some free time I would love to hear more about your experience expanding the shower footprint (and any advice on working with the FIL who is great but I also don't want to potentially damage any relationships).

Originally Posted by sahcivan

I'm knee deep (not literally) into doing my bathroom at the moment. With 1 toilet and shower/bath in the house it's a logistical minefield

Yeah that sounds like a situation which would be difficult, only two bathrooms here but having one that works seems like it would make everything much easier. Would love to see some pictures when you are done.

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Now I see why you’ve been randomly replying to threads w no content at all: to get your thread count up so you could leave a link to your business.
Unbelievable.

I wish he added more information on what exactly he would advise use of plumbers for.

Originally Posted by brandrea

OP, this is good advice.

If you’re going to the trouble do it right and replace the plumbing. We just gutted our entire home before moving and replacing the existing wiring and plumbing was automatic. Ours is an 80s ranch bungalow as well.

Almost 40 years old, you’ll want the peace of mind that the plumbing in your bathroom was replaced and up to code.

Interesting, I think you are right especially since a leak somewhere is the impetus of this remodel.

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

x1000 for using the Schluter Ditra instead on concrete board and plastic. It is a great product.

I also agree with advice on ripping everything out before planning the next step. On one of my projects, I had to take everything down to the studs and joists.

Use floor warming mats for a toasty winter floor. Wives and cats love them!

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

Also, make sure you have enough deflection figured into for the tile on the floor. marble requires a very stiff subfloor and may need some joist work or up to a 1 1/8 subfloor, if I recall correctly.

Go ahead and replace all plumbing supply lines and drains while you ahve everything opened up.

I remember some of your threads as well on flooring. I think the heated floor will be great. At one of the partial ownership vacation places I go they have heated floors, heated towel closets, I agree that it makes a difference.

That is the assumption I am going with from my research. I imagine some of the subfloor will have to have remedial action and the I'll lay another layer of plywood flooring above it, likely .75" + .5".

[GB-man]

I ran everything by the guys on JB forums. Start a project thread there for sure.

Fortunately my FIL is a very likeable guy. If it had been my MIL I would have cut a check for 20k and let someone else do it! Considering I don't know much I generally played the part of the apprentice. Don't be shy to interject if you know something is not being done right. It is your home.

We took out a wall and two closets and expanded the footprint of the bathroom another 5 feet by 12 feet to accommodate a double vanity and spacious walk in shower. Fortunately we had about 6 people that weekend for the gut and materials removal which helped a lot.

If you run heated floors be sure to run a dedicated circuit for that. All in I ran three new circuits for my bathroom. One for the floor, one for the gfci (which a hairdryer will damn near max out) and one for the toto toilet .

Last but not least do some reading. You want to make sure all electrical and plumbing is done to code otherwise you not only risk fire/leak etc but you will get red flags galore come resale AND everything worth doing is worth doing right.

"Good advice GB, I will certainly run down those forums. If you have some free time I would love to hear more about your experience expanding the shower footprint (and any advice on working with the FIL who is great but I also don't want to potentially damage any relationships)."

[Ballzzz]

Make your own shower pan out of 40mil membrane and sand mix. Make sure to run the membrane up at least 24inches all around the shower and over the step into the walk in shower. Once your Concrete board goes over the membrane you will be fine imho.

[Sperry]

Originally Posted by GB-man

we had about 6 people that weekend for the gut and materials removal which helped a lot.

Six people! A huge luxury. The main reason I do not do this type of work is the huge amount of manual labor involved. Wait, it is nearly all manual labor, with a far smaller amount of very skilled trade labor here and there.

Cheers on the bigger footprint. A bathroom loves lots of airy space.

"Back in the day", the true water closet may have been the smallest room converted for use. I'll still see these in older houses. Gobs of old tile, a huge bathroom with no closet, it all says, "Original water closet". An opaque glass insert substituted for one of the door panels is the final touch for authenticity.

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by GB-man

If you run heated floors be sure to run a dedicated circuit for that. All in I ran three new circuits for my bathroom. One for the floor, one for the gfci (which a hairdryer will damn near max out) and one for the toto toilet .

Hey, that toilet is no laughing matter. Without that modern bit of technology, we are no further advanced than the cavemen.

[locutus49]

You can now buy grout that does not need sealing, it does cost a bit more, just ask for it.

[breitlings]

So I can get about 10-12 more inches in length. Which I think I am going to do. Only issue is that the opening threshold would be on along the 34" length and not the 42-46" side. I haven't seen a premade tub with thresholds like that. Also occurs to me that the shower as placed now would be pointed across the 34" and not the ~44" side.

So if I lengthen the shower i would enter from the small side and the shower would also spray across the small width and not the longer width. Any issues with that style, should I still go ahead with the demo of the wall and build the shower into the adjacent closet?

Thanks

Originally Posted by locutus49

You can now buy grout that does not need sealing, it does cost a bit more, just ask for it.

good advice.

[Ballzzz]

Update?

[GB-man]

Another tip wth regards to tile work is read the bag. People often mix up thinset improperly and then wonder what the heck happened. Ditto grout

[tbonesteak]

Sorry for the hijack, hopefully I can provide some DIY inspiration. I'm in a picture posting mood...

A friend of mine works in the remodel business, his father owns a fairly large contracting business and together we basically redid a bathroom in my apartment. To be noted; the building we live in was built about 150 years ago - I could move to the burbs and have bathrooms much larger than 50 square feet, but then I wouldn't be door to door in 25 minutes. I'd love to have a 300 square foot bathroom, but I don't want to spend 10-12 hours a week commuting. This bathroom prob hadn't been touched in 40 years.

Before, how about some sweet 70's pink and turquoise?







Look at how thick this tile was, they had just gone over the previous tiles, prob from like the 1940's:



Some old tiles:



Getting to work, look how old these pipes and bricks are:







Should've gotten us a better tile cutter:





Thought it would take 2 days, this is somewhere around day 10



Finishing up:

[GB-man]

^ nice work!

That gutted bathroom looks a lot like my sisters home, which was built in the late 1800s. I thought working on my home was challenging

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by tbonesteak

Sorry for the hijack, hopefully I can provide some DIY inspiration. I'm in a picture posting mood...

A friend of mine works in the remodel business, his father owns a fairly large contracting business and together we basically redid a bathroom in my apartment. To be noted; the building we live in was built about 150 years ago - I could move to the burbs and have bathrooms much larger than 50 square feet, but then I wouldn't be door to door in 25 minutes. I'd love to have a 300 square foot bathroom, but I don't want to spend 10-12 hours a week commuting. This bathroom prob hadn't been touched in 40 years.

Before, how about some sweet 70's pink and turquoise?







Look at how thick this tile was, they had just gone over the previous tiles, prob from like the 1940's:



Some old tiles:



Getting to work, look how old these pipes and bricks are:







Should've gotten us a better tile cutter:





Thought it would take 2 days, this is somewhere around day 10



Finishing up:

Love the work. the faucet is especially cool -- would you happen to know the name of that faucet?