5164R thoughts & Wait Times

[Andygmt2]

Am looking for a Aquanaut 5164R (though I thought this might be ‘easier’ than SS) when I raise the question with an AD, it’s almost as if you have to purchase a ‘core’ model first before even getting a chance at an Aquanaut/Nautilus.

Has this been the case with your experience even for precious metal pieces? Welcome peoples thoughts and to hear about the journey. Also roughy timescales it has taken some of you guys?

[ap1]

Yup, normal. Your money is no good there

[dauster]

my ad had a 5164R in their case (that was 2019)

[Mr. Miami]

Originally Posted by Andygmt2

Am looking for a Aquanaut 5164R (though I thought this might be ‘easier’ than SS) when I raise the question with an AD, it’s almost as if you have to purchase a ‘core’ model first before even getting a chance at an Aquanaut/Nautilus.

Has this been the case with your experience even for precious metal pieces? Welcome peoples thoughts and to hear about the journey. Also roughy timescales it has taken some of you guys?

All Aquanaut models are extremely hard to get a retail. I will be in the market next spring/summer for a 5167a and will be going gray. Premium doesn’t bother me as it is cheaper than buying watches I don’t like in the HOPES of getting what I truly want.

[Humble michael]

Yep Although I bought several pieces - 5711 R and 5990 last year. The ad who worked w me have the door closed on him by PP , so now I have no Ad. Local one tells me maybe if I buy some of their old inventory that’s probably spent 2 years in the showcase at full retail MAYBE then they might grace me by putting me on a wait list.Finally decided I am not going to buy something I am guaranteed to lose money on if I ever want to sell or trade,especially something I don’t even want! Soo just purchased a 5167 R from a grey in as new condition complete 2020. Just had to pay the premium.

[V25V]

Just go gray and get it over with. Great watch and you will keep it forever!


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[Neurogeek]

Thats normal since 2 yrs ago in Australia. Anything that sells above MSRP on chrono24 you simply cant get them easily.

[noshake]

Im interested in the wait/process as well. What is a core model? What if you have purchase history at the same AD with other brands? Do you still have to purchase other Patek models before buying a Nautilus/Aquanaut? Please do tell...

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[Andygmt2]

Originally Posted by noshake

Im interested in the wait/process as well. What is a core model? What if you have purchase history at the same AD with other brands? Do you still have to purchase other Patek models before buying a Nautilus/Aquanaut? Please do tell...

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So core models are basically ones that are in the shop window readily available or ones that are in stock in other stores. In the UK, from what I’ve been told regardless of Rolex purchase history - you start fresh with Patek. Unless anyone has any other different experiences.

[pav333hp]

Originally Posted by james272

Yep Although I bought several pieces - 5711 R and 5990 last year. The ad who worked w me have the door closed on him by PP , so now I have no Ad. Local one tells me maybe if I buy some of their old inventory that’s probably spent 2 years in the showcase at full retail MAYBE then they might grace me by putting me on a wait list.Finally decided I am not going to buy something I am guaranteed to lose money on if I ever want to sell or trade,especially something I don’t even want! Soo just purchased a 5167 R from a grey in as new condition complete 2020. Just had to pay the premium.

Did you AD ever share why PP closed their door? Just curious, sorry I know I'm slightly highjacking this thread.

To OP, yes the 5164R is hard to get, but do start a conversation with your AD to express interest and see how it plays out.

[Humble michael]

Well Ad said it was bc PP was reducing the no of AD’s in US. He had been an AD for PP for 2 generations. Very sad. Of course it leaves me with out a dealer. Although I have 8 PP’s, I have tried to find a new one who would work with me to no avail. Thanks

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by james272

Well Ad said it was bc PP was reducing the no of AD’s in US. He had been an AD for PP for 2 generations. Very sad. Of course it leaves me with out a dealer. Although I have 8 PP’s, I have tried to find a new one who would work with me to no avail. Thanks

I was in your same scenario earlier this year. Though I had no previous PP purchase history, my family had a good relationship with a local AD who was stripped of their dealership in March.

Left me no path other than to go hunting elsewhere for my first Patek. Started from the bottom, now I'm, well, still at the bottom

[noshake]

Originally Posted by james272

Well Ad said it was bc PP was reducing the no of AD’s in US. He had been an AD for PP for 2 generations. Very sad. Of course it leaves me with out a dealer. Although I have 8 PP’s, I have tried to find a new one who would work with me to no avail. Thanks

Since you have 8 Pateks, certainly that counts towards your spend history with the brand. Correct? Or is that history useless because you'll have to find a new AD?

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[RUpanerai]

Its a very difficult situation now where demand far exceeds supply and Patek knows that the Nautilus and Aquanaut lines are their big movers but they do not want to be defined by these two core models alone.

With that being said they have tried to push more Calatrava's and complications instead of just the Nautilus and Aquanauts.

If you want a "new" path to any AD you need to buy something that is "easier" to get, I started off with a 5205, 5296, and 5524 at 3 different stores and each got me something I wanted after a 1 to 2 year wait. Only 1 AD I have worked with has gotten me to coveted pieces in the last two years, but I had to buy a 5068R to get a 5164R and also had to buy a 5575 over retail to be considered for a 5990 at retail. The game sucks unfortunately but the only short cut is to pay more on the secondary market.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by RUpanerai

Its a very difficult situation now where demand far exceeds supply and Patek knows that the Nautilus and Aquanaut lines are their big movers but they do not want to be defined by these two core models alone.

I know this has been over-discussed over the years, but I'll admit, it is an interesting thought experiment if we were to explore what would happen to Patek if they were defined by those two model lines.

I think there's a bit of archaic thinking in the Swiss watch world. Too much of an "old" opinion driving business.

From my perspective, when I talk to people, they associate Patek with the Naut and Aqua. It doesn't matter what Patek wants to be defined by, you are defined by what the *people* define you as.

AP is the RO.
Rolex is the SS professional sports model line.
Patek is the Naut and Aqua.

Embrace it. Live it. Profit. Survive.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by RUpanerai

Its a very difficult situation now where demand far exceeds supply and Patek knows that the Nautilus and Aquanaut lines are their big movers but they do not want to be defined by these two core models alone.

With that being said they have tried to push more Calatrava's and complications instead of just the Nautilus and Aquanauts.

If you want a "new" path to any AD you need to buy something that is "easier" to get, I started off with a 5205, 5296, and 5524 at 3 different stores and each got me something I wanted after a 1 to 2 year wait. Only 1 AD I have worked with has gotten me to coveted pieces in the last two years, but I had to buy a 5068R to get a 5164R and also had to buy a 5575 over retail to be considered for a 5990 at retail. The game sucks unfortunately but the only short cut is to pay more on the secondary market.

Do you still have the 5205, 5296 and 5524?

[noshake]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I know this has been over-discussed over the years, but I'll admit, it is an interesting thought experiment if we were to explore what would happen to Patek if they were defined by those two model lines.

I think there's a bit of archaic thinking in the Swiss watch world. Too much of an "old" opinion driving business.

From my perspective, when I talk to people, they associate Patek with the Naut and Aqua. It doesn't matter what Patek wants to be defined by, you are defined by what the *people* define you as.

AP is the RO.
Rolex is the SS professional sports model line.
Patek is the Naut and Aqua.

Embrace it. Live it. Profit. Survive.

I agree. The Mad Men days are over. People dress more casual. Its more comfortable and convenient. Especially now that COVID has us all stuck in our homes no one I know wears suits and ties for Zoom meetings. The need for dress watches are diminishing. Similar to formal dining rooms that everyone use to have in their homes. A casual time piece that can support healty active lifestyle but can dressed up when needed is were the market is moving.

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[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by noshake

I agree. The Mad Men days are over. People dress more casual. Its more comfortable and convenient. Especially now that COVID has us all stuck in our homes no one I know wears suits and ties for Zoom meetings. The need for dress watches are diminishing. Similar to formal dining rooms that everyone use to have in their homes. A casual time piece that can support healthy active lifestyle but can dressed up when needed is were the market is moving.

Well said.

[noshake]

Originally Posted by RUpanerai

Its a very difficult situation now where demand far exceeds supply and Patek knows that the Nautilus and Aquanaut lines are their big movers but they do not want to be defined by these two core models alone.

With that being said they have tried to push more Calatrava's and complications instead of just the Nautilus and Aquanauts.

If you want a "new" path to any AD you need to buy something that is "easier" to get, I started off with a 5205, 5296, and 5524 at 3 different stores and each got me something I wanted after a 1 to 2 year wait. Only 1 AD I have worked with has gotten me to coveted pieces in the last two years, but I had to buy a 5068R to get a 5164R and also had to buy a 5575 over retail to be considered for a 5990 at retail. The game sucks unfortunately but the only short cut is to pay more on the secondary market.

Thanks for that information it's really helpful. Now I have an idea of what to expect when visiting a PP AD. Sounds like gaining access to those models are harder then Rolex SS.

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[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by noshake

I agree. The Mad Men days are over. People dress more casual. Its more comfortable and convenient. Especially now that COVID has us all stuck in our homes no one I know wears suits and ties for Zoom meetings. The need for dress watches are diminishing. Similar to formal dining rooms that everyone use to have in their homes. A casual time piece that can support healty active lifestyle but can dressed up when needed is were the market is moving.

Completely agree with you, but there will always be the individual who appreciates horology and the art behind watchmaking. While they are certainly dwindling in number, there are still watch collectors that are, and will continue to be, in the corners of the world with extensive collections the contain more than the markets current "hot" models.

Originally Posted by noshake

Thanks for that information it's really helpful. Now I have an idea of what to expect when visiting a PP AD. Sounds like gaining access to those models are harder then Rolex SS.

Most certainly

[noshake]

I love the artistry and engineering that goes into making a timepiece like the PP 5270. I especially like the manual wind peices because you can see the entire movement without a rotor blocking your view. However that watch is in another stratosphere when it comes to price. LoL

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[GreenLantern]

I absolutely love the high horology pieces. And I never, ever want them to stop making them.

But, that's not what the future of Patek buyers wants. Heck, that's not what the *current* Patek buyers want.

Want evidence that I'm right? Look at aftermarket pricing. 5270P-001 trades in the $150k range. Patek just raised MSRP from $192,780 to $205,807.

The number of people who gawk at the 5270 is small compared to the number of people on the planet who gawk at and lust over a 5711 or 5712 or other Nauts and Aquas.

The people define what you are known for long term. Just look at AP.

Also worth noting that the 5270 isn't what Patek is targeting as their bread & butter. They want to sell the $50k gold dress pieces. That's what they push on ADs. That's what ADs push on people who walk in wanting a sport watch.

[Swaye]

Considering my first PP right now and while I have strong relationships with both Rolex and FPJ (and big spend to get it), I am not interested in repeating the relationship process with PP. I'm going grey with PP, as others have suggested.

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I know this has been over-discussed over the years, but I'll admit, it is an interesting thought experiment if we were to explore what would happen to Patek if they were defined by those two model lines.

I think there's a bit of archaic thinking in the Swiss watch world. Too much of an "old" opinion driving business.

From my perspective, when I talk to people, they associate Patek with the Naut and Aqua. It doesn't matter what Patek wants to be defined by, you are defined by what the *people* define you as.

AP is the RO.
Rolex is the SS professional sports model line.
Patek is the Naut and Aqua.

Embrace it. Live it. Profit. Survive.

Entirely disagree with this comment...
It was "Old" archaic thinking which prevented PP going down the Quartz route for their premium offerings in the 80's.
It was their old thinking that gave rise to timeless classicism which means their watches command the very highest auction prices of all time.
Indeed it is their "old" thinking which is responsible for the dated 1970's design around which the Nautilus is based!!

I'm sorry but I believe your comment reveals as certain naivety as to how to safeguard long term Brand Equity.
For those getting the Nautilus/Aqua at list from their AD, these sports watches are on the periphery of the PP offering which is why AD's give them to such people.
If I think of myself, I could only bothered to take 5711 and 5980/1r after I'd purchased 7 other Pateks and needed a beater to scratch on the side of the holiday pool having got rid of my Rolexes....My AD knows I love the brand, he knows i don't flip, he knows I'll be buying PP's long after the gray market premiums and insta-fads have gone.
Indeed, Naut/Aqua is at the bottom rung of the PP brand association in my mind... as it is for so many PP collectors that sustain the business's revenues.


A lot of this depends who you talk to..... For the nouveau arrivistes, MMA fighters, Rihanna and Instagram set, yes PP is exactly as you describe - Naut and Aqua - (that's equivalent to associating Porsche with the Boxster btw).

But when the fad for showing off is over, when Instagram is as dated as Myspace, and the moment the premiums disappear, then I think a reversion to the underlying brand identity will take effect as long as Thierry Stern doesn't make the company a one-trick pony like AP.
And the way to do that is easy - don't expand Nautilus production.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

A lot of this depends who you talk to..... For the nouveau arrivistes, MMA fighters, Rihanna and Instagram set, yes PP is exactly as you describe - Naut and Aqua - (that's equivalent to associating Porsche with the Boxster btw).

But when the fad for showing off is over, when Instagram is as dated as Myspace, and the moment the premiums disappear, then I think a reversion to the underlying brand identity will take effect as long as Thierry Stern doesn't make the company a one-trick pony like AP.
And the way to do that is easy - don't expand Nautilus production.

This is where we disagree.

It's not a fad.

IG won't go the way of MySpace. MySpace started a "show-off" fad. MySpace died. IG took its place. The fad didn't wear off.

[jamestucker]

Originally Posted by Andygmt2

Am looking for a Aquanaut 5164R (though I thought this might be ‘easier’ than SS) when I raise the question with an AD, it’s almost as if you have to purchase a ‘core’ model first before even getting a chance at an Aquanaut/Nautilus.

Has this been the case with your experience even for precious metal pieces? Welcome peoples thoughts and to hear about the journey. Also roughy timescales it has taken some of you guys?

I was asking my AD about a 5164R and he said 5164R and 5167R were the least popular and can be obtained with a relatively short wait.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by jamestucker

I was asking my AD about a 5164R and he said 5164R and 5167R were the least popular and can be obtained with a relatively short wait.

Cool good to know

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

This is where we disagree.

It's not a fad.

IG won't go the way of MySpace. MySpace started a "show-off" fad. MySpace died. IG took its place. The fad didn't wear off.

Agree, IG isn't going anywhere. Unfortunately, it seems as though projecting one's wealth, or making it appear as such, has become the norm.

This is the new Gilded Age, showing off one's wealth -- from staggering 'mega' mansions and yachts to hard to get watches and cars which are then showed off for everyone else to see on social media.

I hope I am wrong.

[FrmrHoss]

I suppose this is not helpful at all, but this is making feel very grateful for my AD getting me one relatively easily. I'd say just pay gray and love it forever because it is awesome.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Agree, IG isn't going anywhere. Unfortunately, it seems as though projecting one's wealth, or making it appear as such, has become the norm.

This is the new Gilded Age, showing off one's wealth -- from staggering 'mega' mansions and yachts to hard to get watches and cars which are then showed off for everyone else to see on social media.

I hope I am wrong.

Indeed.

And this is not ever going to change.

Look throughout history, the changes in society don't ever revert back, they simply continue moving forward to the next new thing (that only seems to build upon the old).