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1 July 2014, 03:15 AM | #31 |
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For me I would not but if you have a proper relationship with the AD then it would be up to you.
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1 July 2014, 03:36 AM | #32 | |
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Quote:
http://www.patek.com/contents/defaul...rtificate.html
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1 July 2014, 05:14 AM | #33 | |
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Quote:
We might be talking semantics, as my certificate wasn't lost my AD was able to get the replacement. This was 2007. The watch in question of the OP of this thread sounds like it is a few years old, maybe taken in trade, still the AD (if it is an AD) should be able to get some sort of paperwork. To those who think a lack of certificate is worth 40% to 50%, time to wake up. |
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1 July 2014, 05:51 AM | #34 |
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It really depends on the price the AD is willing to sell this pre-owned watch. The 5711/1A new is listed at $26.7K USD.
Even those who claim they will never purchase a watch without papers, I wonder how many will pass it up if the AD was selling it at a steep discount(e.g. $13.3K or 50% discount). I don't think the AD will sell it that low, but it really depends on the sales price for pre-owned watches, even for watches without the certificate. |
1 July 2014, 05:53 AM | #35 | |
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you are right
Quote:
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1 July 2014, 06:02 AM | #36 | |
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Quote:
Exactly ,i d pull the trigger at 50 discount-who don t-,however i doubt anyone offers such a deal.
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2 July 2014, 12:21 PM | #37 |
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When I bought my new 5711 the AD had a used one for sale without the box or papers, his price was a grand or so less than a new one. Dealers will find someone to pay the price they are asking since after all, they are the AD with the store front.
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2 July 2014, 07:01 PM | #38 |
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^sure some ppl don t care ,not aware .
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Best George "Also remember that feet don't get fat and a watch will always speak volumes." Robert Johnston --------------------- *new*https://youtu.be/EljAF-uddhE *new * http://youtu.be/ZmpLoO1Q8eQ IG @passionata1 |
2 July 2014, 08:17 PM | #39 |
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It's like the Bob Marley song says: " No...papers no buy...."
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2 July 2014, 10:33 PM | #40 |
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2 July 2014, 10:46 PM | #41 |
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I have two large safe deposit boxes and I do keep all papers in one of them. Better in the safe deposit bank than sorry. I am extra cautious even though I have alarm system and safe at home. I just don't like taking any chance whatsoever.
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6 July 2014, 10:44 AM | #42 |
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Good feedback guys. The dealer was asking for 23k. You are right and I'm now thinking that it would be better for me to pay a few K more for something in my name, brand new.
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7 July 2014, 01:02 AM | #43 |
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It is worth 15-16k with no papers
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7 July 2014, 01:48 AM | #44 |
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But if you had only the watch and miraculously found the matching papers on eBay (far fetched I know), would you Buy those papers for $7k? That's where I get confused. What are papers really worth in conjunction with the watch? Would you really spend even an extra $3k for the 5711 that had papers versus the one that didn't? I understand this would be different for a minute repeater... |
7 July 2014, 04:57 AM | #45 | |
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It is like buying a house with a garage or no garage with the same square footage. The one with garage is in higher demand and worth more. If you know how to buy you can get a good used 5711 for 19-21k complete. I payed a little less than that but I hunted and one can say my time was worth way more than the savings.
Also look how days on market of watches with open papers vs filled out. Shorter time to sell, and slight premium for open papers. Why, because it is more perferd my many. Quote:
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7 July 2014, 05:41 AM | #46 | |
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Quote:
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7 July 2014, 06:27 AM | #47 |
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I would buy a 5711 without papers for 15k
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7 July 2014, 07:11 AM | #48 |
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You will have to get into a time machine to go back 5-6 yrs to find a 5711 for $15K papers or no papers.
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7 July 2014, 08:03 AM | #49 |
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I would not pay 23k for it. No matter how mint
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7 July 2014, 08:16 AM | #50 |
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There is a delicate balance between supply and demand for may PP timepieces including the 5711/1A. PP only produce a certain number of these watches a year and there is probably a greater demand than supply at the moment. Patek can increase the price and it will decrease demand. There hasn't been a price increase in the US for this reference for a couple of years. If Patek decides to increase the price 10 or 20%, will there still be a demand for this watch? I have a feeling the $30K may be a breaking point for this watch. The recently released 5227 Calatrava is not in such a demand (except for the WG model) because Patek raised the price quite significantly.
Anyway going back to topic of a pre-owned 5711/1A without papers, there will be a price where a buyer purchase the watch without papers. As mentioned above, it is somewhere between fll retail price and 50% of retail price. Myopiccoog mentioned the $15K USD as a price point for himself. For others, it will be $17K, $20K or even $23K. As long as the demand continues to outweigh supply, this price point will be closer to the full retail price than most TRF members are willing to pay for. Remember the days of the highly in-demand SS Daytona. Some SS Daytonas were selling at or above retail price at one time due to the heavily skewed supply/demand curve. At the end of the day, the 5711/1A is still just a watch. 99% of the world outside the WIS community will just use their phone to check time. |
17 May 2018, 05:08 AM | #51 |
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Wanna revive this thread.
I have a 5712 steel I got a few years back without papers. Do you think I can fetch more than 40k at this current crazy market? I see a full set sell for 55k now. With the hot market do you think people will overlook on watches without papers? Thanks! |
17 May 2018, 05:25 AM | #52 |
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Do you have Extract From The Archives? If not, get it ASAP and then sell fast while the market is hot.
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17 May 2018, 08:08 AM | #53 |
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I think someone would be eating their words ...
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17 May 2018, 08:25 AM | #54 | |
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Quote:
Let me ask a question then....what happens if the certificate is damaged prior to sale by the AD for any reason...water damage is a perfect example. Or someone spilled coffee while they were sorting out the inventory... Does the AD get a replacement or they have to sell the watch sans certificate. I would assume the AD can pick up the phone and ask for another. Maybe “the no replacement” is for consumers only, not ADs with new watches in stock, or a returned watch like your example. Let’s see what the forums members have to say. I’ll also ask one of my buddies, he works at a Patek AD. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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17 May 2018, 09:29 AM | #55 | |
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Quote:
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17 May 2018, 09:32 AM | #56 |
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Everyone here would buy it for $1, so the real question is: how much should the watch be discounted to make the deal appealing?
For me, it might start at 30% off retail depending on the piece, how bad I wanted it, and the story behind it. The greater the discount, the more I would consider the deal. That said, I would be very reluctant to do a no paper deal. But at the right price... |
17 May 2018, 09:49 AM | #57 | |
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Buying a used PP from AD but without papers?
Quote:
So they can get a replacement if they mess up or a customer returns! Thanks Sam Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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current collection: Patek 5712, Patek 5726 (white), Patek 5990, Patek 5524G, Rolex 116500 (white & black), AP 26331ST (Blue). |
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17 May 2018, 09:51 AM | #58 | |
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Buying a used PP from AD but without papers?
Quote:
I hear what you’re saying, but for me it will always be missing something. For others, maybe not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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current collection: Patek 5712, Patek 5726 (white), Patek 5990, Patek 5524G, Rolex 116500 (white & black), AP 26331ST (Blue). |
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17 May 2018, 01:41 PM | #59 |
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The real question is how much would you pay for a no paper 5712...
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17 May 2018, 02:50 PM | #60 |
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Are you going walk around with the papers on your wrist ? Lol as long as it’s 100% real idc
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